DIY PCB STARTUP

[joergen14]

We’re a group of engineering students at SDU University in Demark

Right now, we’re building a DIY PCB machine to make electronics skills more accessible for students. Many universities, including ours, don’t have easy access to PCB equipment, and we think this machine could open up a lot of possibilities for students who want to experiment and build.

We’ve created a short survey (about 5 minutes), and your feedback would be incredibly valuable to us as we develop this project.

https://eu.jotform.com/form/242832076794061

Thank you for all the inspiration we’d love to hear what you think!

[SDU Engineering Student]

[Overspeed]

Hello

most challenging on DIY or small setup is the Vias as that request metallisation of the holes , except if you put rivets or copper nails

Other concern is the base material , as you shall stay in FR4 1.6 mm thickness basic specs , all other FR4 and also RF ''Rogers'' cost hell .

A nice process is laser engraving but you can also use your laser to burn paint as a mask and after make a etching , some US universities use laser burning to produce prototype in house

Good luck

OS

[janoc]

I don't want to spoil your student enthusiasm but how do you expect to compete with the PCB fabrication services like JLCPCB or PCBWay (or even Aisler here in the EU)? Did you consider that many places don't have their own PCB making equipment simply because it is not economical to do so? Is your machine going to be able to produce a board with soldermask, silkscreen, metalized vias and more than 2 layers?

That aside, why to reinvent the wheel?  If you want to manufacture your own PCBs on a small scale beyond the hobby DIY level like tone transfer, then a spray etching tank/machine, UV exposing unit and consumables cost very little and are certainly available even to a Danish university (apropos, greetings to SDU, I used to work at AAU in Esbjerg just across the street from the SDU campus, with many SDU colleagues). You still won't have metalized vias or soldermask unless you invest in additional process but that's true for pretty much any kind of "PCB machine" you are likely to build that would be still relevant for a student.

There is no need to invent a "PCB machine" (I guess some kind of CNC engraver/router?) here, IMO and probably very little market among cash strapped students for something like that.

Apropos, consider that in many cases the problem isn't the cost of purchasing the equipment but the recurring costs of operating it - e.g. required supervision if to be operated by students, consumables, handling the toxic waste, dealing with toxic dust (in case of using a CNC router) in a way that won't give the occupational safety authorities a heart attack and the operator a hefty fine. This adds up quickly to way more than the original cost of the equipment. E.g. my hackspace here down the street has gotten rid of their PCB production equipment for exactly these reasons, with the argument that it is much easier for everyone involved to order the boards online instead. There is a huge difference between etching or engraving a board at home - and operating (or selling) this equipment in a public space/institution/business where the laws and regulations are strict and the authorities are watching you.

[jduncan]

I'm pretty curious who will answer "No" to this question

[thm_w]

I'm pretty curious who will answer "No" to this question

I think what they meant to write was 2 layer PCB, not double sided load PCB.

[coppercone2]

you can do the metalization, the open process works, it just stingy with palladium. you need to add alot more. patents say 10x more. just because its black does not mean its good.

[tooki]

We’re a group of engineering students at SDU University in Demark

Right now, we’re building a DIY PCB machine to make electronics skills more accessible for students. Many universities, including ours, don’t have easy access to PCB equipment, and we think this machine could open up a lot of possibilities for students who want to experiment and build.

We’ve created a short survey (about 5 minutes), and your feedback would be incredibly valuable to us as we develop this project.

https://eu.jotform.com/form/242832076794061

Thank you for all the inspiration we’d love to hear what you think!

[SDU Engineering Student]

I would encourage you to look at prior efforts in this direction (like Voltera and pdi3d) and see why they have failed or just not caught on.

Everyone I know who has dabbled in PCB milling — including with CNC machines made specifically for that purpose — have given up on it because it’s too inconsistent, and lacks what are now basic niceties like solder mask and plated holes. (Yes, you can do those yourself but the effort is enormous.) Never mind multilayer (4+) boards, which we can simply dismiss as “impractical enough to be called impossible” to do yourself.


In the past, when commercially made PCBs cost a lot more, DIY PCBs were done by etching, and that’s still a decent approach from a technical standpoint, but the effort is completely disproportionate to the cost of just ordering from JLCPCB, PCBway, Aisler, OSHpark, etc. It just doesn’t make sense. And then you have chemical waste to deal with.


So what problem is it you aim to solve? Cost? You will lose on that. Capabilities? You will lose on that even more. Turnaround time? Well… maybe, if you have your process completely perfected. (Professionals just pay through the nose for express service from a local PCB manufacturer if they absolutely must have a board ASAP — as fast as 1 day.)

[tooki]

I don't want to spoil your student enthusiasm but how do you expect to compete with the PCB fabrication services like JLCPCB or PCBWay (or even Aisler here in the EU)? Did you consider that many places don't have their own PCB making equipment simply because it is not economical to do so?

Indeed, many universities, corporate prototyping labs, and the like had that equipment for years, and got rid of it in recent times because JLCPCB etc is cheaper, easier, and better.

At the university department where I work, single-sided PCBs in in-house devices were mostly DIY etched until around 1995, then little by little moved to commercial, and I haven’t seen a DIY etched PCB made after around 2000.

Nobody wants to go back to making them themselves, it’s not worth it.

[jduncan]

It seems like you may think assembly is the "secret sauce" that will make this worthwhile.

you're not the first to think of turning a 3d printer into a pick and place machine. however, what you'll find is that setup effort makes this less efficient than just hand placing components with tweezers until you're making 10+ boards.