Solder Wick

[bostonman]

I have a roll of solder wick labeled: soder wick, size 3, 80-3-10

I'm looking to buy more and may have found what the 3 and 10 represent, but not sure about the 80. Does anyone know, and, does anyone know a place with good prices? I'm finding some high prices for rolls.

[nctnico]

I have a roll of solder wick labeled: soder wick, size 3, 80-3-10

I'm looking to buy more and may have found what the 3 and 10 represent, but not sure about the 80. Does anyone know, and, does anyone know a place with good prices? I'm finding some high prices for rolls.

Sounds like a Chemtronics number to me. This stuff is expensive but it is the best solder wick you can buy. Don't mess with the cheap stuff if you value your sanity. IIRC the 80 is the type of flux. 3 and 10 are width and length.

[bostonman]

I'm guessing it refers to the type of flux used. I looked at some of their wicks and the no clean ones seemed to have the number 60 on them.

That would make more sense. I have a huge role, but it's #2 in size which is small and I typically use #3. It seems maybe the #3 is too small too because I spend so much trying to unsolder through hole parts; especially ground holes. I've never had luck unsoldering, I'm at it for countless time and never successful the first time.

I never got the differences between no clean flux and the different types. When I first learned about it, I'd question why not always use no clean. Anyway, it's something I should research and maybe a chart with pros/cons exist.

[KL27x]

I have better luck using a solder sucker on through hole parts. Some like the desoldering stations/guns. Solderwick is mostly used for removing bridges and cleaning solder off of pads after removing the part.

I use size 10 (10 hundredths of an inch, apparently). I occasionally cut it down the middle with scissors, if it's too big, and it works without unravelling. Chemtronics Chem-Wik. Rosin.

I'd question why not always use no clean. Anyway, it's something I should research and maybe a chart with pros/cons exist.

No clean doesn't mean any one thing other than it's not rosin. If we named things logically we would call it "not rosin." But calling it "no clean" makes it sell way better. It might be essentially the same as rosin but using a synthetic resin that doesn't have the brown/yellow color, or it might be a flux that just has very low active ingredients and little to no binding resin, at all.

You don't have to clean rosin simply because manufacturers call other stuff "no clean." Usually, no clean has less bulky residue, so it looks cleaner, but quite often it has higher electrical conductivity than rosin flux. Also it is sometimes more difficult to clean, should you want to remove it, because it leaves more stuff that won't dissolve in water or common solvents.

Rosin residue is bulky in a good way. The vast majority of the residue is nonconductive and waterproof once dried, AND it dissolves and cleans away easily in alcohol and/or acetone, should you desire to remove it.

If you use rosin flux core solder when soldering , you probably want rosin solderwick. If you use a no clean flux, you might want to try no clean wick and see if it's "compatible." If it makes a mess, it's not compatible. 

[bostonman]

That's good information about rosin and no-clean flux. I have exposure but not experience to manufacturing processes. I grab a role of solder and solder wick, soldered (or de-soldered) with it, and thought that's all I needed to know. Over the years I've heard the terms of no-clean and rosin, but also heard of several pros/cons (as you listed) - still didn't pay much attention to the discussions.

I'd like to find a chart that outlines all the types and their pros and cons. With no lead soldering becoming the norm, I'm dreading having to learn to deal with the newer soldering methods including soldering copper water pipes.

As for de-soldering, I suck at de-soldering components - maybe others find it equally difficult too. I've used solder suckers and they result in melting the tip, constantly having to clean solder build up, etc... Nowadays my jobs are small, so I use solder wick because it's just easier to grab, but, as I stated, and it was pointed out, it's not easy either.

I considered a de-solder station, and read other posts about which ones are good, but never saw a definitive answer. Since I don't do as much de-soldering, I'm not keen on spending over $125 or so for the ones others have listed as good.

I do know, however, I'm in need of solder wick because I only have one small role left of the #3, and a large role of #2, but it's too narrow. Ideally #3 is the minimum I'd use. So I need to find a site that has reasonably priced solder wick.

[mrpackethead]

I have a roll of solder wick labeled: soder wick, size 3, 80-3-10

I'm looking to buy more and may have found what the 3 and 10 represent, but not sure about the 80. Does anyone know, and, does anyone know a place with good prices? I'm finding some high prices for rolls.

Sounds like a Chemtronics number to me. This stuff is expensive but it is the best solder wick you can buy. Don't mess with the cheap stuff if you value your sanity. IIRC the 80 is the type of flux. 3 and 10 are width and length. 

THis is so true.    Solder wick comes in bad, bad, bad, bad and really good.     Im not sure why, but the cheap stuff just causes drama!   
I normally buy 'goot' brand, and it works really well. I bought some 'budget' brand stuff once, and maybe thats why i'm now nuts.

[SMTech]

I have better luck using a solder sucker on through hole parts. Some like the desoldering stations/guns. Solderwick is mostly used for removing bridges and cleaning solder off of pads after removing the part.

I use size 10 (10 hundredths of an inch, apparently). I occasionally cut it down the middle with scissors, if it's too big, and it works without unravelling. Chemtronics Chem-Wik. Rosin.

I'd question why not always use no clean. Anyway, it's something I should research and maybe a chart with pros/cons exist.

No clean doesn't mean any one thing other than it's not rosin. If we named things logically we would call it "not rosin." But calling it "no clean" makes it sell way better. It might be essentially the same as rosin but using a synthetic resin that doesn't have the brown/yellow color, or it might be a flux that just has very low active ingredients and little to no binding resin, at all.

You don't have to clean rosin simply because manufacturers call other stuff "no clean." Usually, no clean has less bulky residue, so it looks cleaner, but quite often it has higher electrical conductivity than rosin flux. Also it is sometimes more difficult to clean, should you want to remove it, because it leaves more stuff that won't dissolve in water or common solvents.

Rosin residue is bulky in a good way. The vast majority of the residue is nonconductive and waterproof once dried, AND it dissolves and cleans away easily in alcohol and/or acetone, should you desire to remove it.

If you use rosin flux core solder when soldering , you probably want rosin solderwick. If you use a no clean flux, you might want to try no clean wick and see if it's "compatible." If it makes a mess, it's not compatible.

This isn't accurate.
No-clean fluxes are designed to not require cleaning after the soldering process because the residues are inert. fluxes are corrosive, those that are not "no-clean" can continue to to be active and munch their way through your copper traces. Not all non-rosin/colophony free solders will be no clean and those that are might not leave behind something you or your customers are happy with. Flux residues can be very hard, powdery or a yucky yellow, which you might find unsightly or could make getting a nice contact with a probe difficult.

There are other reasons beyond the need to clean afterwards that could sway you towards choosing other fluxes, not least reading the MSDS, Rosin is not exactly pleasant, halide & colophony free solders should produce fewer irritants that can trigger respiratory issues. However they do all vary greatly its worth experimenting with solders and wicks until you find one you like, some smell like coconuts .

[mrpackethead]

some smell like coconuts .

really? SOme kind of new vaping ??

[CJay]

Chemtronics all the way, the results justify the price.

[SMTech]

some smell like coconuts .

really? SOme kind of new vaping ??

LOL I'm pretty sure its not intentional, I think it was Koki solder wire in fact. IIRC that was halide free but not colophony free.
There's lots of papers etc out there on fluxes.. here's one chosen at random https://www.pillarhouse.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/301-Choosing-a-Flux-11-2016.pdf

We use Chemtronics flux for rework, its quite nice to use and comes in a nice pen which helps keep things tidy.

[KL27x]

This isn't accurate.
No-clean fluxes are designed to not require cleaning after the soldering process because the residues are inert.

Bull shit. If this is the only criteria, then milspec rosin flux would also be no clean.
"No-clean" is a designation invented by manufacturers which is largely based on (or biased toward) esthetics.

Conductivity: In most cases, no clean flux residue is significantly more conductive and hygroscopic than a standard (say mil spec) rosin flux. And in many cases it is more difficult to clean, should you choose to. But it looks better. Most boards are machine assembled today with no cleans, and you can measure the conductivity of the surface of the board due to the residue. Between any two components that aren't even connected you can often measure conductivity in the Mohms. That is "normal." It's par for the course. But if you solder the same board with rosin flux, you won't measure conductivity, at all.

Corrosion:

fluxes are corrosive, those that are not "no-clean" can continue to to be active and munch their way through your copper traces.

Water based, perhaps. That's another category.

If you use too much of any flux, it will remain active for longer than necessary. Every single flux removes oxidized copper by eating it up with acid. (Elemental copper is unaffected, until it eventually oxidizes due to direct air exposure or through the oxygen dissolved in a solvent). Even no-clean flux has to be used in appropriate amount and with appropriate heating to dry it out. If your board is covered with sticky residue 5 minutes after you're done soldering, then it will remain active. But when you're finished soldering there is no exposed copper left on the board, anyway. All copper is covered with soldermask or tin. And the residue will eventually dry out on its own and after it dries and hardens, rosin flux is not corrosive or conductive and is waterproof. Whereas a water based flux will remain active as long as there is humidity and the acid doesn't all get neutralized. But you can just use less flux, if you are concerned. In automatic process/assembly, the amount of flux in the solder paste is predetermined, and the amount of paste on the pads is carefully controlled.

Go ahead and try to etch through a trace with rosin flux. LOL. Break out the heat gun. Expose to artificially high humidity and temps. Steam the board, maybe. Good luck.

If I'm not going to assemble a DIY board (no soldermask) for awhile, I sometimes wipe it over with rosin flux to clean and PROTECT it from air and humidity. Then it remains ready to populate and solder w/e.

Ever see the inside of a Zenith TV from the 70's. Globs of rosin flux residue. Those things would still be in service if they weren't obsolete. I know people who still have a B&W Zenith as their only TV in their expensive flat in Queens. (They don't watch much TV).

Now, if your goal is to have as little residue as possible, then you have to be way more careful when formulating and applying a flux. The majority of the bulk in a traditional flux residue is the rosin which is what ends up encapsulating the ionic residue (or any unused acid that may be added in addition to the rosin, which is an acid, itself, when it is dissolved in solvent) making it inert. When you try to minimize that protective residue for esthetic concerns, then you start playing games with trying to make the flux as weak as possible so the acid actually runs out and gets used up by the time the connection is good. If you are NOT concerned with esthetics/bulk of the residue, it is very easy to use "enough" and not have to worry about "too much." The only major side effect is the bulk/esthetics. It's not a problem of corrosion or conductivity.

But when a flux manufacturer tell you why you should use their "no clean," they will tell you all the 99% of the things it is formulated to do as if it is unique to their product (even though rosin flux does the same things with even better results regarding conductivity/corrosion) then add the esthetic superiority at the end as if that is just a cherry on top of other (ghost) benefits. It's great they their product still does all those other things pretty ok, but they have largely been compromised to some degree in the quest for esthetics.

[SMTech]

Milspec assemblies are always washed, as are many boards for instrumentation and aerospace. I'm not making this up read the PDF I linked above, or many others, yes there are other reasons and they include what happens to flux residues from all types of fluxes if they haven't been processed correctly. Where no-clean residues get trapped they are just as dangerous for the same reasons. Look at a manufacturer page for a no clean solder or flux and the key thing that pops up time and again is that residues are "safe to leave on" this is both from a corrosion and conductivity standpoint.

70s CRTs ahh yes full of large scale integrated circuitry, fine traces 1000's of joints and all that good stuff we see on a modern assembly.

[KL27x]

From your very dull and boring PDF:

Full Rosin Fluxes also provide excellent soldering, with an equivalent ability to clean the metals to be soldered and to
last throughout the process. But, they do not have the same propensity as Water Soluble to corrode and damage
product. In fact, instead, the rosin has the benefit of acting as protective barrier during soldering and after soldering
can entrap ionic residues, preventing them from being mobile and reacting in a destructive manner.
Source: www.lo-tech.co.uk
However, Rosin leaves a residue on the board and can contaminate manufacturing equipment—which serves as the
main motivator to cleaning this kind of flux from circuit boards, more so than the reliability issues of Water Soluble
fluxes. Although, with the high demands of today’s electronics, rosin residues can also lead to failures as well in
harsh environments.

Mechanically, the residue is undesirable when it obfuscates test pads. During reflow, some of it may spatter and leave little nuggets, or what not. I do get my "manufacturing equipment" all gunked up, too. A drop gets on my hand sometimes, and then I have to wash it off. 

Milspec assemblies are always washed

I don't know why you mention this. I mention milspec rosins because they are known quantities and halide free, rather than some random formulation of rosin flux. If they are always washed is neither here nor there, but I have heard that R is not always washed off in milspec boards, although RMA and RA are supposedly always washed, per milspec. When I make stuff for the military, I'll ask them what they want.

I can assure you that the most popular no clean flux residues used in the last decade on all kinds of consumer electronics and motherboards is measurably conductive. Way more conductive than even RA residue. Depending on environment, flux residue can have adverse affects. But for general purpose, you can usually forget about it.

Old television and radios are great case studies, IMO, because they are some of the oldest and most numerous consumer electronics still around. And many modern consumer electronics aren't expected to last more than 4-6 years. They are in some cases purposely designed to not last.

I'll repeat this with a slight amendment.

When you try to minimize that protective residue for esthetic (and "mechanical") concerns, then you start playing games with trying to make the flux as weak as possible so the acid actually runs out and gets used up by the time the connection is good. If you are NOT concerned with esthetics/bulk of the residue, it is very easy to use "enough" and not have to worry about "too much." The only major side effect is the bulk/esthetics. (And mechanical concerns!). It's not a problem of corrosion or conductivity (but you can add a bunch of halides to rosin flux and still call it rosin flux, I suppose).

[Electro Detective]

I have a roll of solder wick labeled: soder wick, size 3, 80-3-10

Sorry to be   'that guy..'   but if it's labelled soder wick instead of solder wick  (pronounciation of 'solder' debate aside  )

I might give it a miss

 

[CJay]

I have a roll of solder wick labeled: soder wick, size 3, 80-3-10

Sorry to be   'that guy..'   but if it's labelled soder wick instead of solder wick  (pronounciation of 'solder' debate aside  )

I might give it a miss

 

Because?

The genuine Chemtronics stuff is Soder Wick

[KL27x]

Mine says "Chem-Wik." Different type, or did I buy fake Soder Wick?

SMTech

the key thing that pops up time and again is that residues are "safe to leave on" this is both from a corrosion and conductivity standpoint.

I don't dispute this. No cleans are made to be safe to leave on AND to meet an esthetic/bulk standard. While the residue of the no cleans which leave very little residue is technically and measurably conductive, it is non-conductive ENOUGH to work fine with most electronics and to meet the maximum conductivity requirement that is set by the manufacturing industry. No clean flux has nearly all of the market in mass production. But being "safe to leave on" from both a corrosion and conductivity aspect is not unique to "no clean" fluxes. If these were your only criteria, then all milspec rosin fluxes would meet these same criteria and they would be SUPERIOR to many/most no cleans.

Now when you hand solder and/or rework a board using your no clean flux and solder with no clean flux and your solder wick with no clean flux... if you ever get so much flux residue on there that you wish to clean it off for some reason... whether esthetics, or because it is obscuring an ICSP pad, or because it is starting to obscure your view of some difficult reworking of the board, or because it is "gunking up your manufacturing equipment" because you can't let your board sit for 10 minutes after soldering to completely dry out... well then god help you. You may see why the unofficial name for no clean fluxes is "never clean." Some clean very similarly to rosin fluxes, but others will not clean easily without mechanical help or ultrasonic cleaning. The amount of ionic residue can be enormous... once the small bit of resin is removed, the high proportion of ionic salts is exposed, and it absorbs water and expands, and you will find white ionic residue just packed between pins and white residue baked onto the board around pads, and you will have to use a brush and elbow grease or ultrasonic cleaning to dislodge it. It can also be difficult to clean just the one spot you want to clean without screwing up the areas around it, spreading like a disease. So then you have to clean the whole damn board. With rosin flux, if you have a spot you want to clean, it comes off easy and the residue/encapsulation is copious enough to keep the rest of the board protected from this action.

[CJay]

Mine says "Chem-Wik." Different type, or did I buy fake Soder Wick?

Dunno, I've got both and both are genuine.

[NivagSwerdna]

https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/14c3/0900766b814c3e16.pdf

Page 2...

3 .080"/2.0mm Green 80-3-5 80-3-10 SW18035 Medium Pads

I never knew there were so many variants!

[Electro Detective]

I have a roll of solder wick labeled: soder wick, size 3, 80-3-10

Sorry to be   'that guy..'   but if it's labelled soder wick instead of solder wick  (pronounciation of 'solder' debate aside  )

I might give it a miss

 

Because?

The genuine Chemtronics stuff is Soder Wick

I wouldn't have believed it till I just saw it on the chem website out of curiosity   

"Soder-Wick, the world's leading brand of desoldering braid (solder wick, desoldering wick) "

Was it a grammatical blunder done a long time ago, and they rolled with it to save on repackaging and label costs,
or someone else had a product out called Solder Wick 

I suppose this product works fine,
with or without an  'L' on the label 

 

[Kean]

Presumably it was for trademark reasons

[CJay]

I wouldn't have believed it till I just saw it on the chem website out of curiosity   

"Soder-Wick, the world's leading brand of desoldering braid (solder wick, desoldering wick) "

Was it a grammatical blunder done a long time ago, and they rolled with it to save on repackaging and label costs,
or someone else had a product out called Solder Wick 

I suppose this product works fine,
with or without an  'L' on the label 

 

Yeah, sodder, soder, makes my British English skin crawl but it's the genuine article and it really does work well. Well worth the money IMHO

[Bud]

All no-clean solder and flux that i tried affect the soldering iron tip badly, making it black in no time if not cleaned (no pun intended) promptly. Maybe that is because of prolonged high temperature action that makes it corrosive. I now always re-tin my tip  with rosin flux solder after using it with no-clean solder.