[UK] Job ad: Wanted, electronic engineer

[AndyC_772]

This ad has been removed because the position is no longer open.

I'd like to thank all those of you who made constructive comments.

[linux-works]

it would be nice to see more job ads on this forum.  wonder if that would work out ok or just become a noise generator?

btw, you may want to rethink this one line:

- have an excellent academic background, including a degree in Electronic Engineering (or a related subject) from a respected university

lots of people are good at the stuff you are looking for, but may not have a degree or degree from a snooty named place.  in fact, I've had more luck with self-trained hw/sw guys than ones who went to famous name schools.

judge the person, not their sheepskin.  that's my advice, fwiw.  and good luck, hope you find your employee.

[tom66]

- Salary offered is between £35k and £40k.

Your post was quite interesting until that point. For that skill and responsibility level I'd be looking for more like 45-50k, or maybe 4 days a week. What are house prices like around there? Still, good luck, you might find a good graduate or someone who is willing to take a chance.

The South of England is one of the most expensive places to live in the UK. Although you could live somewhere like Basingstoke, a complete and utter black hole, for relatively little. (I lived there for about 3 years.)

[mikeselectricstuff]

btw, you may want to rethink this one line:

- have an excellent academic background, including a degree in Electronic Engineering (or a related subject) from a respected university

lots of people are good at the stuff you are looking for, but may not have a degree or degree from a snooty named place.  in fact, I've had more luck with self-trained hw/sw guys than ones who went to famous name schools.

judge the person, not their sheepskin.  that's my advice, fwiw.  and good luck, hope you find your employee.

+1

[KJDS]

- Salary offered is between £35k and £40k.

Your post was quite interesting until that point. For that skill and responsibility level I'd be looking for more like 45-50k, or maybe 4 days a week. What are house prices like around there? Still, good luck, you might find a good graduate or someone who is willing to take a chance.

The South of England is one of the most expensive places to live in the UK. Although you could live somewhere like Basingstoke, a complete and utter black hole, for relatively little. (I lived there for about 3 years.)

I spent 18 months contracting in Basingstoke, staying in a B&B through the week. I found one reasonable restaurant and had a few nightmare experiences, including having to explain to a waitress why gravy over the salad wasn't good, and that was from one of the better places. It's a bizarre town, with absolutely nothing to commend itself. Also in commuting distance is Bordon. I've driven through it but never dared stop.

The job description and salary are probably about right, Nokia and Quinetiq used to employ hundreds of engineers in Farnboro without having to pay excessive salaries.

[tggzzz]

- Salary offered is between £35k and £40k.

Your post was quite interesting until that point. For that skill and responsibility level I'd be looking for more like 45-50k, or maybe 4 days a week. What are house prices like around there? Still, good luck, you might find a good graduate or someone who is willing to take a chance.

The South of England is one of the most expensive places to live in the UK. Although you could live somewhere like Basingstoke, a complete and utter black hole, for relatively little. (I lived there for about 3 years.)

It has the major advantage of only bring a few miles from Lasham GlidingClub!

[zapta]

btw, you may want to rethink this one line:

- have an excellent academic background, including a degree in Electronic Engineering (or a related subject) from a respected university

It has value when billing customers.

[DmitryL]

The job description and salary are probably about right, Nokia and Quinetiq used to employ hundreds of engineers in Farnboro without having to pay excessive salaries.

Lol. It is 10-15 grand less than average with this list of requirements. That's probably the reason why the topicsatarter didn't go for a job agency/site.
Nokia and other more or less big companies give an average salary, but try to compensate it with in-house benefits, like health insurance, pension contributions, occasional bonuses, cheap canteens and similar.
Graduates are cheap, even smart ones, but the requirements list is too good for them. Maybe a pensioner will fit

[mikeselectricstuff]

btw, you may want to rethink this one line:

- have an excellent academic background, including a degree in Electronic Engineering (or a related subject) from a respected university

It has value when billing customers.

The customer just wants the job done. A track record of successful delivery is worth far more than some bits of paper

[DmitryL]

- have an excellent academic background, including a degree in Electronic Engineering (or a related subject) from a respected university

The customer just wants the job done. A track record of successful delivery is worth far more than some bits of paper

The quote above is just copy-pasted from job sites ads or standard job description that average companies (read: "hens from HR") post there. It is a standard harrasment but once you get to the interview with real people almost no one really cares, they want something real and able to check if you have proper skills. You know this better than me, I presume

[Howardlong]

Although I do have an electronic engineering degree, and I am sure it opened a few doors at the beginning of my career, I learned very little of any practical use during my time at university. Indeed, in some cases I knew more than the lecturers, many of whom were of the "those who can't, teach" variety, and then most weren't exactly very good at teaching either.

Spending more days than strictly necessary in freezing cold garages in the middle of winter with soldering irons meant there was little left to teach me, in a practical sense. The only useful course I did was one on Pascal which formally taught pointers and data structures. Indeed, I think that the use of data structures is sometimes a way to separate a self-taught programmer from a formally taught person. Not always, but sometimes. True, there was a bit of maths that occasionally has proved useful, but mostly because it showed just another way of doing what I'd already done at A level (national UK exams for 18 yo's).

I could easily have completed my degree without ever having picked up a soldering iron or used an oscilloscope, and indeed I'd say most of my peer group were in that camp.

That was 30 years ago. More recently in the UK, everyone and their dog has a degree, it seems to be a rite of passage nowadays. My concern with graduates in the UK these days is that as well as being two-a-penny, some think that the world owes them a living, and their magic piece of paper is a passport to that. I had one new grad working for me who refused to send a fax as he felt they should have someone do it for them. (When he did finally do it, he sent the same fax half a dozen times, customer phones up say all they were receiving was blank paper each time, it didn't dawn upon him he'd put it in the ADF the wrong way round). Needless to say, we fell out.

I'd far rather have someone who's keen with demonstrable real world practical skills, is honest and reliable, communicates reasonably well, doesn't bullshit, knows how to use a shower and can be put in front of a customer. Sometimes there is a correlation between that bit of magic paper and my preferences, but not always. Of the hundreds of projects I've been on, I have only ever once had to provide a CV as a consultant on a project when working through someone else, to this day I have no idea why.

[AndyC_772]

Thanks for the comments so far, all duly noted.

[tggzzz]

btw, you may want to rethink this one line:

- have an excellent academic background, including a degree in Electronic Engineering (or a related subject) from a respected university

It has value when billing customers.

The customer just wants the job done. A track record of successful delivery is worth far more than some bits of paper

There's some validity there, but also limits.

If your experience is in XYZ and the next job requires ABX, then a decent university degree may help with credibility that you can learn AB on the job without too many foulups/delays.

Most of my jobs have been in that ABX category, and a decent degree helped me.

[tggzzz]

Although I do have an electronic engineering degree, and I am sure it opened a few doors at the beginning of my career, I learned very little of any practical use during my time at university. Indeed, in some cases I knew more than the lecturers, many of whom were of the "those who can't, teach" variety, and then most weren't exactly very good at teaching either.

We've all seen that phenomenon, and is isn't limited to teachers

I could easily have completed my degree without ever having picked up a soldering iron or used an oscilloscope, and indeed I'd say most of my peer group were in that camp.

I couldn't, and only a few on my course were in that camp. They were destined to become technical salesreps.

That was 30 years ago. More recently in the UK, everyone and their dog has a degree, it seems to be a rite of passage nowadays. My concern with graduates in the UK these days is that as well as being two-a-penny, some think that the world owes them a living, and their magic piece of paper is a passport to that.

Yes, those are intereating phenomena. But any halfway decent interviewing process should be able to weed out such slackers - it isn't rocket science (except to HR droids that seem to value teamwork and shyness above all else).

I'd far rather have someone who's keen with demonstrable real world practical skills, is honest and reliable, communicates reasonably well, doesn't bullshit, knows how to use a shower and can be put in front of a customer.

I've always wanted and needed both - and got them.

Sometimes there is a correlation between that bit of magic paper and my preferences, but not always. Of the hundreds of projects I've been on, I have only ever once had to provide a CV as a consultant on a project when working through someone else, to this day I have no idea why.

I've worked in places where providing a client with an abbreviated CV was SOP. Such places were great fun with great clients.

[Wilksey]

Uh Oh, is this going to turn into another multi page post about how little is being offered like Daves post? 

Anyway, I have read the description, and for the "required" skills, the pay isn't too bad, on the upper end of that scale would probably be better, I would say, prepare to go up to 45k if the person has some of the "bonus" skills, and also of course, depending on length of service in the industry.

It's not unreasonable for a job advert to be advertised at that level of pay, it also depends on what training is required etc.

I have seen adverts at 35k and when you enquire the employer says after the 6 months probation period it would go up and if you tell them what you are looking for they can build that into the contract of employment, so if I said I wanted £45k, and they agreed, after 6 months I would expect it to go up £10k as agreed (if everything was going OK of course).

[tom66]

PM sent

[KJDS]

The most difficult part will be finding someone that you're prepared to put in front of your customers.

[dannyf]

A few years ago, we were in the market for a Cortex-Mx programmer, more towards experienced / project lead level. Offered $200 - 225K and we were beaten a few times by people offering $250K or over.

PIC/AVR programers are a dime a dozen, on the other hand.

My understanding is that the market for phone firmware developers is even worse.

[VK3DRB]

A few years ago, we were in the market for a Cortex-Mx programmer, more towards experienced / project lead level. Offered $200 - 225K and we were beaten a few times by people offering $250K or over.

PIC/AVR programers are a dime a dozen, on the other hand.

My understanding is that the market for phone firmware developers is even worse.

Problem with those jobs is the money is good whilst the work is there, Also, Arm Cortex programmers are not that rare these days. PIC/AVR programmers? Good ones are rare and are worth the extra money. A bad one can cost a company their business. Same with anything really, even mechanical engineers. What is rare is a good embedded programmer who also has comprehensive skills and experience in analogue and digital hardware design. They are worth every cent.

Good companies attracts good people and they are worth keeping.

A close friend told me just today that his mate works for a small company that pays crap money for engineers but the boss pockets $10K to $20K per week in salary alone. The worker rides an electric bicycle to work and the owner told him he is not allowed to recharge it at work because it is costing the company (him) 25 cents in electricity per day. People have to bring their own milk, tea and biscuits, and he wont allow people to take more than the maximum 60 minutes off for lunch even though they work long hours. The company is making heaps of money, but it has a high turnover, not surprisingly. The boss is either greedy or just plain stupid... maybe both. The worker is now looking for another job.

If you want to keep the best, pay them well and treat them well. And never, NEVER believe the door that does not squeak does not need oil.

[Galenbo]

it would be nice to see more job ads on this forum.  wonder if that would work out ok or ...

I would like that, too

But with the same minimum requirements that this ad offers: Place, price, daily tasks.

[Galenbo]

btw, you may want to rethink this one line:

- have an excellent academic background, including a degree in Electronic Engineering (or a related subject) from a respected university

It has value when billing customers.

The customer just wants the job done. A track record of successful delivery is worth far more than some bits of paper

I saw the opposite. Working for an airport, our company had to show success stories, but they also asked a detail list of the guys who will work on the project, and their degree(s).
I think they were ripped-of in the past by some shiny salesmen, who sent some stone-age workers after the document got signed.

"just wants the job done" is another sales cliché thing from the nillies. What document describes the "job", what is considered "done", and replace "just" by how and when the company is expected to react at the sure moment things WILL go wrong.

[tggzzz]

btw, you may want to rethink this one line:

- have an excellent academic background, including a degree in Electronic Engineering (or a related subject) from a respected university

It has value when billing customers.

The customer just wants the job done. A track record of successful delivery is worth far more than some bits of paper

I saw the opposite. Working for an airport, our company had to show success stories, but they also asked a detail list of the guys who will work on the project, and their degree(s).
I think they were ripped-of in the past by some shiny salesmen, who sent some stone-age workers after the document got signed.

I've repeatedly had good clients make exactly that point. The only difference was they tended to use the phrase "bid the A-team, field the C-team". In addition, they were reassured seeing the CVs of named individuals, and preferably meeting them.

Clients that took the trouble to understand how we worked (and why) tended to be better clients than those that made unthinking presumptions.

[KJDS]

btw, you may want to rethink this one line:

- have an excellent academic background, including a degree in Electronic Engineering (or a related subject) from a respected university

It has value when billing customers.

The customer just wants the job done. A track record of successful delivery is worth far more than some bits of paper

I saw the opposite. Working for an airport, our company had to show success stories, but they also asked a detail list of the guys who will work on the project, and their degree(s).
I think they were ripped-of in the past by some shiny salesmen, who sent some stone-age workers after the document got signed.

I've repeatedly had good clients make exactly that point. The only difference was they tended to use the phrase "bid the A-team, field the C-team". In addition, they were reassured seeing the CVs of named individuals, and preferably meeting them.

Clients that took the trouble to understand how we worked (and why) tended to be better clients than those that made unthinking presumptions.

My name, and a very brief resume is often added to a proposal by one of my clients with my permission. I'll occasionally get some work out of it, but as there is often a year between the initial proposal and contract award then I never know if I will really be available for it.

Major companies will usually expect a list of names and a paragraph of resume on a serious proposal.

[linux-works]

our industries must be very different.  in my 30+ yrs working as a software devel, not ONCE has anyone ever asked me about my degrees while ON the job.  not the boss, not a client (for heaven's sake!) and its just not done!  its not even allowed, by convention.  hell, most software gigs I've been at, they don't even want you telling your peers your JOB TITLE!

it sounds like some industries are more paranoid than others.  but in software, in the bay area, at least, not once has anyone ever said "I want X of your guys on this project and they have to have Y quals and Z degrees".  never.   not once.  the client does not get access to that info and they almost never get direct access to engineers on the project (you may need to shuffle them around and so 'binding' people to projects is not always the best thing and if you tell a customer that person A is on the job and you need to move A to some other task, you are now stuck).

look, mr. customer, you are looking for a job to be done and we'll do that job.  here is what our work plan is, our spec and some past success stories by our company.  if you want to go with us, great.  if not, well, maybe next time.

that's it.  you don't get to see inside the company.  that's our business, not yours.

[linux-works]

Major companies will usually expect a list of names and a paragraph of resume on a serious proposal.

again, not in my experience (which is all US based, half in the boston area and half in silicon valley).

it sounds like this is very cultural and varies a lot based on which country and which field you are in.  like I said before in my last post, in all my years doing software, not once has any client ever tried to get info about the people that were assigned to his project or product.  I would not even feel right - if I was a customer - asking about the personnel and their backgrounds.  it would be an insult and its just not done!