Did US Astronaut land on the moon for real?

[james_s]

What intrigues me, is how one should approach those results.  On one hand, they were obtained by unforgivable horrible experiments on innocents.  On other hand, the results did advance human science, especially the understanding of what humans could and could not endure.  On the gripping hand, those results could not be obtained by any other way but lethal experimentation.  Would the results be more acceptable if they had experimented on criminals sentenced to death?  Volunteers to such do not exist.

Well the experiments were already done and cannot be undone. The results should be utilized to extract the maximum value possible out of the situation, which obviously should never be repeated. If further data is needed, much can be extrapolated from real world events in the same way that I consider data from real world car accidents far more valuable than controlled crash tests.

[MrW0lf]

The moon landing conspiracy believers have released a faked NASA film that they claim shows how the landing was all done in a studio.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/12/michoud-hollywood-movie-teams-utilize-facilitys-expanses/

Michoud Assembly Facility (MAF) is now being filled with the sound of clapperboards, as opposed to the noise of space hardware being constructed. Numerous major movie studios are taking advantage of what are now large empty expanses inside the New Orleans facility.

Some jolly fun artistic mix on the MAF theme (Warning! Hardcore flat earth content! )

[Simon]

Oh crikey. They have a movie studio that they hire out so the flat earthers have decided the only movies they can be making are fake ones. Maybe they need to get out more to their local cinema.

[Mr. Scram]

Why on Earth would they publicise the tools like that if it's all a big secret? That doesn't make much sense.

[ArthurDent]

The moon landing conspiracy believers have released a faked NASA film that they claim shows how the landing was all done in a studio.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/12/michoud-hollywood-movie-teams-utilize-facilitys-expanses/

Your quoting what I said and then replacing the link I had with one of your own not only misrepresents what I said but was taking what I said out of context. If you want to make a point do it honestly.

https://youtu.be/xLVChRVfZ74

[Tomorokoshi]

Why on Earth would they publicise the tools like that if it's all a big secret? That doesn't make much sense.

Because the fake Moon landings weren't filmed on Earth! The fake Moon landings were filmed on the Moon! It's all part of the conspiracy!

[MrW0lf]

Your quoting what I said and then replacing the link I had with one of your own not only misrepresents what I said but was taking what I said out of context. If you want to make a point do it honestly.

What point? It just seemed funny that they actually do have a studio.

[WhatRoughBeast]

Well, of course the astronauts went to the moon.

They had to fill out customs forms when they returned.

https://www.space.com/7044-moon-apollo-astronauts-customs.html

What more proof do you need?

[cdev]

The reason why people are so bitter perhaps is more related to in many cases, our growing up with the awe inspiring and real promise of the whole human race going, together, into space, so we all developed dreams that perhaps have been let down by changes since then.

But that doesn't mean they wont happen. Its quite possible that they will. We're just at a stage, all of us, the human race, where we've temporarily stalled.

However, the space accomplishments we share including the moon landing and ISS and the various space missions by a great many countries and commercial entities are real and we all, nomatter where we come from or do, should be proud of them.

Because I spent a long time working in research in the Bay Area and was a very early adopter of web technology, I've worked for a lot of different entities some of whom helped publish NASA data. (and all sorts of other things)

A very long time ago I was also one of a very long list of talented people who helped develop tools and policies to leverage that data better, making it much more useful and available and cite-able.

NASA was at that time (and I am sure still is) a very high-functioning organization made up of great people who get a very high level of performance out of a workforce who genuinely love their jobs.

Also, contracting organizations that interact with them are also great people and great places to work, that strive, hard, to prevent anything that even remotely suggests unprofessional behavior.

They are probably as good as it gets anywhere in the world of contracting employment.

I was spoiled by my time in the research community, in a sense. I do think that all work should and likely someday will be more like that than what most jobs are like today.

I want us to realize that every mind thats wasted by lack of opportunity and frustration is a real tragedy.

I'm pretty old now, but am still very into science.

The major thing that I wish I had but lack is a better knowledge of math.

[In Vacuo Veritas]

growing up with the awe inspiring and real promise of the whole human race going, together, into space,

I wonder where such mind-numbing pablum came from? Space is very clearly a gigantic, empty, radiation-blasted hell. Life is here, on this planet, right here, right now.

Space is, and always has been, a dead end. No one is "colonizing" space, not now, not tomorrow.

I think a few Russians got bored and ate too many magic mushrooms a hundred years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cosmism

[Mr. Scram]

I wonder where such mind-numbing pablum came from? Space is very clearly a gigantic, empty, radiation-blasted hell. Life is here, on this planet, right here, right now.

Space is, and always has been, a dead end. No one is "colonizing" space, not now, not tomorrow.

I think a few Russians got bored and ate too many magic mushrooms a hundred years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cosmism

Staying on the planet is a dead end. Spread out or perish.

[cdev]

The layer of human habitable Earth is certainly very thin and precious and space is very big, and its conditions are extreme, compared to Earth our home. And you're right, I don't see us as being able to live on any of our Sun's other planets or the Moon, ever, unless tremendous quite considerable amounts of effort is expended in creating a bubble of human habitable 'Earth like' conditions, making space for the immediate future not something which we can use short term to solve big problems like world hunger directly.

But, we should still explore it, we really must explore it.

growing up with the awe inspiring and real promise of the whole human race going, together, into space,

I wonder where such mind-numbing pablum came from? Space is very clearly a gigantic, empty, radiation-blasted hell. Life is here, on this planet, right here, right now.

Space is, and always has been, a dead end. No one is "colonizing" space, not now, not tomorrow.

I think a few Russians got bored and ate too many magic mushrooms a hundred years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cosmism

[In Vacuo Veritas]

I wonder where such mind-numbing pablum came from? Space is very clearly a gigantic, empty, radiation-blasted hell. Life is here, on this planet, right here, right now.

Space is, and always has been, a dead end. No one is "colonizing" space, not now, not tomorrow.

I think a few Russians got bored and ate too many magic mushrooms a hundred years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cosmism

Staying on the planet is a dead end. Spread out or perish.

Bah hahahaha hahah!!!  Oh geez... Where did you get such a bizarre childish viewpoint from? Everything grows, lives, and dies, even entire species. Even us. Yes, evolution is still happening, eventually there won't be anything human no matter what we do now. And if you were really concerned about perishing you'd be backing life extension research, not fragile tin cans in low earth orbit or gangly cameras on wheels.

[In Vacuo Veritas]

But, we should still explore it, we really must explore it.

1) Why? Where's the same poetic rush to explore the bottom of the ocean or the center of the Earth? What "must"? According to who? Because the sci-fi you read as an unpopular teen told you so?

2) We "explored" space just fine so far by sitting in front of telescopes. It's empty. That particular cubic meter of hard vacuum there is pretty much the same as the cubic  light year of hard vacuum over here.... So what? I just don't get it.

We're already in space. No one "explores" much of anything, I'd be willing to bet most of you geeks have barely stamped two pages in your passport, yet you get all frothed up about pictures of dead rocks floating between planets light minutes away... LOL

Oh look! A rock! In space! Let's explore it! In the meantime, there are millions of more interesting rocks RIGHT HERE. So it's not about exploring at all, it's a religion.

After all, it's the same periodic table of elements out there as down here, right?

[cdev]

But, we should still explore it, we really must explore it.

1) Why? Where's the same poetic rush to explore the bottom of the ocean or the center of the Earth? What "must"? According to who? Because the sci-fi you read as an unpopular teen told you so?

2) We "explored" space just fine so far by sitting in front of telescopes. It's empty. That particular cubic meter of hard vacuum there is pretty much the same as the cubic  light year of hard vacuum over here.... So what? I just don't get it.

We're already in space. No one "explores" much of anything, I'd be willing to bet most of you geeks have barely stamped two pages in your passport, yet you get all frothed up about pictures of dead rocks floating between planets light minutes away... LOL

Oh look! A rock! In space! Let's explore it! In the meantime, there are millions of more interesting rocks RIGHT HERE. So it's not about exploring at all, it's a religion.

After all, it's the same periodic table of elements out there as down here, right?

Yup.

We could argue about this forever but I'm not expecting you to be convinced nor have you convinced me. The best point you made you didn't really explore which is that there is a very great deal about the Earth including vast portions of it (deep underwater, for example) which we know are teeming with life, including many life forms we still know almost nothing about, but which we still largely have not explored.

Life at the bottom of the Marianas Trench or similar, is guaranteed to still hold surprises - Life is pretty amazing, evolution, for example, in animals, plants and fungi, is amazingly good at coming up with useful chemicals and processes, ones we likely could use. The chances of finding value versus cost does make exploring those hidden places on Earth IS a no-brainer, there is somewhere we agree, why aren't we doing more of it?

I also agree with Mr. Scram's sentiment, though, we have to diversify or eventually we'll be wiped out by something. Most likely ourselves at this point.

Should we be worried about what might happen if we go into space?

Yes, especially if we treat each other like crap.

[MrW0lf]

https://gtmarket.ru/concepts/7359

Google Translate:

/.../
Social psychology considers the phenomenon of social illusions as a powerful factor of social integration and the mobilization of society to solve metahistorical problems and problems of geopolitical significance. In contrast to rational arguments and realistic expert assessments, social illusions, due to their simplicity, figurativeness and richness in metaphors and symbols, are much more accessible and understandable for the mass consciousness, are easily digested and become the basis for motivating social action.
/.../
The logic of development of social illusions ultimately leads to disappointment, faith is replaced by skepticism, apology - by criticism. The unattainability of the proclaimed goals, the inconsistency of the abstract and the everyday, the utopian and the isolation of social illusions from the reality of the life world become obvious. As a result, the moral and psychological climate is changing in society, values ​​are being re-evaluated, the search for new orientations and ideals begins.

[In Vacuo Veritas]

we have to diversify or eventually we'll be wiped out by something. Most likely ourselves at this point.

I'd say we're quite diverse already:





How, exactly, would we "diversify" into breathing hard vacuum and eating solar neutrinos?

Like this?



BTW, have you "explored"  the myriad of human possibilities that already exist here? Hmmm?

[Mr. Scram]

Bah hahahaha hahah!!!  Oh geez... Where did you get such a bizarre childish viewpoint from? Everything grows, lives, and dies, even entire species. Even us. Yes, evolution is still happening, eventually there won't be anything human no matter what we do now. And if you were really concerned about perishing you'd be backing life extension research, not fragile tin cans in low earth orbit or gangly cameras on wheels.

Apparently a large body of scientists has a "bizarre childish viewpoint". Don't try insulting others. You're only insulting yourself. Life on Earth is a finite endeavour. The best way of ensuring its existence is getting off of Earth, whether it's us, a successor species or another species. Those fragile tin cans are necessary to get there, just like malformed fins were the first step towards the legs of a gazelle. Pretending that's a futile endeavour is silly, as securing its own survival is essentially all that live does.

[Mr. Scram]

I'd say we're quite diverse already:





How, exactly, would we "diversify" into breathing hard vacuum and eating solar neutrinos?

Like this?



BTW, have you "explored"  the myriad of human possibilities that already exist here? Hmmm?

All of that could be easily wiped away with a comparatively mundane disaster. Being on the top means easily tumbling down. That's how the big dinosaurs met their demise.

[In Vacuo Veritas]

This sci-fi doom cult is hilarious. Do you people genuinely go through your daily life thinking this kind of mind-rot? Jesus wept.

[Mr. Scram]

This sci-fi doom cult is hilarious. Do you people genuinely go through your daily life thinking this kind of mind-rot? Jesus wept.

Yes, dinosaurs and mass extinctions are sci-fi.

[james_s]

Bah hahahaha hahah!!!  Oh geez... Where did you get such a bizarre childish viewpoint from? Everything grows, lives, and dies, even entire species. Even us. Yes, evolution is still happening, eventually there won't be anything human no matter what we do now. And if you were really concerned about perishing you'd be backing life extension research, not fragile tin cans in low earth orbit or gangly cameras on wheels.

Apparently a large body of scientists has a "bizarre childish viewpoint". Don't try insulting others. You're only insulting yourself. Life on Earth is a finite endeavour. The best way of ensuring its existence is getting off of Earth, whether it's us, a successor species or another species. Those fragile tin cans are necessary to get there, just like malformed fins were the first step towards the legs of a gazelle. Pretending that's a futile endeavour is silly, as securing its own survival is essentially all that live does.

I don't entirely disagree with him here.

Life is finite, period. Some day the sun will die out and the earth will be absorbed, chances are the human race will die out for other reasons millions of years before then. If we spread out to other planets, we will eventually die out on those too, nothing lasts forever. While nobody likes to think about our own mortality, it is an inescapable fact. Even if we knew of another habitable planet and had the means to get there, the vast majority of the population of the earth would perish anyway, it's simply not possible to evacuate a significant number of people on a planetary scale to save much of anything, it would only be propagating the species. At that point we have to ask what is the real value to the universe of propagating the human species? I don't think we are *that* important, the vast majority of the universe, assuming there is life elsewhere, would not even notice we were gone.

Backtracking a little, it's likely all moot anyway given we are almost certain to die off at some point anyway. We consume resources at a far higher rate than they are produced, eventually these will start to run out and wars are certain to break out over the resources that remain. Between violence within our own species, plagues, and catastrophic events, I have little doubt that humans are not the final life form on the earth, like the dinosaurs we will be here for a while, and then we will be gone, replaced by something else. It is inevitable. The "good" news is that every one of us here will likely be long dead and unable to worry about or debate it long before that happens.

[Mr. Scram]

I don't entirely disagree with him here.

Life is finite, period. Some day the sun will die out and the earth will be absorbed, chances are the human race will die out for other reasons millions of years before then. If we spread out to other planets, we will eventually die out on those too, nothing lasts forever. While nobody likes to think about our own mortality, it is an inescapable fact. Even if we knew of another habitable planet and had the means to get there, the vast majority of the population of the earth would perish anyway, it's simply not possible to evacuate a significant number of people on a planetary scale to save much of anything, it would only be propagating the species. At that point we have to ask what is the real value to the universe of propagating the human species? I don't think we are *that* important, the vast majority of the universe, assuming there is life elsewhere, would not even notice we were gone.

Backtracking a little, it's likely all moot anyway given we are almost certain to die off at some point anyway. We consume resources at a far higher rate than they are produced, eventually these will start to run out and wars are certain to break out over the resources that remain. Between violence within our own species, plagues, and catastrophic events, I have little doubt that humans are not the final life form on the earth, like the dinosaurs we will be here for a while, and then we will be gone, replaced by something else. It is inevitable. The "good" news is that every one of us here will likely be long dead and unable to worry about or debate it long before that happens.

As far as we understand the nature of the universe, life is ultimately finite. What pretty much defines life is that it does anything and everything to prolong its existence a little longer. With every human on or very near Earth, it doesn't take a lot geologically speaking to wipe out humans. Even all of life being wiped out isn't impossible. If we're a little more spread out, it all becomes a lot more resilient. This means leaving Earth and heading into the system and further universe. At that point very few things would mean the end, although other dangers would inevitable arise. Colonizing space means having a backup. We may not be able to stave off heat death, but we can at least aspire to witness it.

Besides, if it's all ultimately futile why should we bother at all? Why get out of bed in the morning? Why eat, love or reproduce? We're heading towards out inevitable death anyway. We may as well save ourselves some trouble and stop postponing it another day. Even though that probably sounds a bit extreme, it boils down to the same thing.

[cdev]

One thing I often think, we need to clean up our acts here, particularly in how we treat one another and other living things of all kinds, and our planet, treat our planet better- before we go out very far into space.

I really do think we will be able to live much longer lives in the future, if we want to. If we stop poisoning our planet that would help a lot.

When our lives are longer, we'll begin to see everything differently.

Then a lot of things will start falling into place that we don't really grasp now, as a species.

[james_s]

Why should we bother at all? Well that comes down to the whole "what's the meaning of life" existential question. It's not too difficult though, for me I enjoy being alive, I enjoy doing the things I enjoy doing. The fact that I know that I'll be dead and gone within a handful of decades doesn't stop me from enjoying life but it does help me to focus on today rather than worrying what I'll do 100 years from now because I know with almost certainty that I will not be alive 100 years from now. Everything is finite, everything ends, we cannot change that. All we can do is focus on making the limited time we have as interesting as possible.

I'm not worried about spreading out to another planet, once I'm dead and/or all the people I know are dead it makes very little difference to me whether the human race as a whole lives on or not. My own life is intrinsically tied to the earth, it is my home, and if the earth was no longer a viable place to live I'm not sure I'd even want to go on living anyway. If we find another habitable planet I'm not sure I'd want to see humans take it over, change it to our liking, rape it for its resources and pollute the natural environment with our byproducts the way we have done to the earth. In some ways humans behave a bit like a parasitic infection.