Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Shock]

The old FETs were ZXMN4A06 on the Rev. C boards.

[Hydrawerk]

It seems that in old ADS200 there was a 35V capacitor while in new ADS200 there is a 50V capacitor.

[Hydrawerk]

In my ADS200 there is a 105°C Nichicon 1000uF 50V capacitor of the VY or UVY range. It is rather basic but probably OK, because there is probably 24V and much less than 105°C.
https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-vy.pdf
https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-uvy.pdf
What do you think?

[Shock]

It's a bit of filtering before the 5V regulator, it doesn't need to be anything fancy. Using a higher cap probably gives it a bit more robustness against higher primary (and therefore secondary) AC voltages. On 220-250 VAC mains there is going to be more varied supply voltages it's probably to add additional overrating. It won't hurt making the cap last even longer as well, but I suspect it was well within spec though to start with.

[nimish]

Paces new MBT360 promo video. I like the design and the display looks like it has crystal clear contrast in the video compared to other brands with simple displays.

https://www.testequity.com/product/10063340-8007-0597 $2700 earth dollars 😳 this is not a hobbyist purchase

[gnavigator1007]

https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/MBT360-8007-0605/Desoldering-Equipment/Rework-Stations/

[tooki]

Paces new MBT360 promo video. I like the design and the display looks like it has crystal clear contrast in the video compared to other brands with simple displays.

https://www.testequity.com/product/10063340-8007-0597 $2700 earth dollars 😳 this is not a hobbyist purchase

Duh. It’s a professional soldering system by a company specialized in professional soldering systems. The hobbyist has never been their target demographic.

The predecessor model (MBT350) is similarly priced.

[Hydrawerk]

I did not want my soldering iron stand to be floating in the air when attached to ADS200 so I made a little user mod. I used a random piece of aluminium.

[Shock]

From what I can tell the stand holes are primarily there so you can interlock multiple stands. I don't know if attaching the stand is officially a feature, but obviously you can do it.

There are accessories Pace sell that attach to the sides (storage and the shelf mount bracket for example on the station) these may have something to do with the alignment.

A possible alternative may be to adjust the feet height (spacers?) or placing something under the stand and of course you can always add an extra couple of holes if you want it permanent. I've not looked into it though, at the moment my stands are in front of the stations.

[Shock]

The other thing you could diy is a custom dross container for inside the stand if you want to keep it minty clean. Pace sells a dross tray (sits behind the brass wool), hard to tell how it actually goes in and I'm not sure if it works with the new setback stands, but the photos give you an idea.

Me I don't use the wool or sponge in the stand.  I use the Pace cleaning station which is a standalone segmented sponge and makes it easier to clean tweezers and vacuum tips combined with the fiber cleaning tool.

[grantb5]

There are accessories Pace sell that attach to the sides (storage and the shelf mount bracket for example on the station) these may have something to do with the alignment.

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find anything other than tips and spare parts. Do you have a link to other Pace accessories?

[Shock]

These are the ones I can find, I own the first four (which have also part numbers for refills).

Cleaning station 6021-0006-P1
Fiber cleaning tool https://paceworldwide.com/tool-cleaning-fiber
Sponge cleaning tool https://paceworldwide.com/sponge-cleaning-tool
Redi Rak 6021-0008-P1 (Sensatemp tips so not ADS200 specific but MBT and ST).
Mounting bracket kit https://paceworldwide.com/mounting-bracket-kit
Dross tray (check compatibility) https://paceworldwide.com/dross-tray-tool-stands
Cartridge tip case 1310-0034-P1
Flux Trap Cubby Kit https://paceworldwide.com/flux-trap-cubby-kit

I'm not sure if the Flux trap kit fits the ADS200 but it looks like it would make a nice soft smd tweezer tool holder if it does, I plan to pick one up at some stage. I've seen a cartridge tip stand on the side or back of a Pace station before but can't recall if it was aftermarket or not and apparently what it was called, as I can't find it anymore.

[Shock]

Found it couldn't find the part number as it was incorrectly labelled by the seller. I think it actually attaches to the back of the stand, no idea of compatibility. Anyway you could probably dream up something better if you wanted to store a bunch of tips.

[Hydrawerk]

https://youtu.be/ZTg1NUajNBQ
PACE ADS200 password reset

Might be useful when you forget your password.

[nimish]

Paces new MBT360 promo video. I like the design and the display looks like it has crystal clear contrast in the video compared to other brands with simple displays.

https://www.testequity.com/product/10063340-8007-0597 $2700 earth dollars 😳 this is not a hobbyist purchase

Duh. It’s a professional soldering system by a company specialized in professional soldering systems. The hobbyist has never been their target demographic.

The predecessor model (MBT350) is similarly priced.

MBT360 PSU is $1700 (just psu), ADS200 is $375 w/ iron. A 5x increase for a chunkier transformer, some extra control electronics (are they still using ancient microprocessors?) and a vacuum pump is a little much. Yeah they aren't hobbyist grade but going from commercial temp to industrial/mil temp components isn't *that* much of a jump especially considering the low tech HMI.

You don't even get an Accudrive sodr-x-tractor!

~$1k PSU only would make sense for 3 accudrive channels + pump.

I *want* to support USA manufacturing and development but an fm-206 psu has 3 channels, a pump and hot air for ~500 less. JBC is cheaper and better!

[Hydrawerk]

Yes, some stations from PACE are bloody expensive... But JBC does not produce a one-in-all stations. https://www.jbctools.com/rmse-q-complete-rework-station-with-electric-pump-product-1650.html
You must have three separate units.

[Shock]

I *want* to support USA manufacturing and development but...

The Hakko is a dated design now, even my MBT350 out classes it especially the newer TD100A aluminum handpiece makes the Hakko one feel like junk, the Pace stations have lower cost maintenance and have a better range of lower cost tips as well.

Part of the problem with Hakkos vaccum desoldering handpiece design is they run $50 cartridge tips. Getting the equivalent to Paces 8 tip selection pack (currently going for around $75) you would be spending about $400 for Hakko. So it makes Hakkos cheaper vaccum handpiece become exponentially more expensive to run as time goes on to the point where you could have just brought the whole Pace station anyway.

The other hidden cost of Hakkos soldering handpiece is buying additional sleeves to make removing and inserting tips less painful, another $6 each for each unique tip you run or you get into this annoying loop of swapping tips into their wrong color coded sleeve and then have to swap them back later, it's just not as good as it seems at first glance.

I don't have the particular Hakko vacuum desoldering handpiece for the FM206, but it doesn't strike me as being a particularly robust design either. Tweezers and vacuum desoldering tools in general are quite expensive to setup and cheapest is not always the best option long term...

... and lets not forget that Pace Accudrive channels are 120W.

[tooki]

https://www.testequity.com/product/10063340-8007-0597 $2700 earth dollars 😳 this is not a hobbyist purchase

Duh. It’s a professional soldering system by a company specialized in professional soldering systems. The hobbyist has never been their target demographic.

The predecessor model (MBT350) is similarly priced.

MBT360 PSU is $1700 (just psu), ADS200 is $375 w/ iron. A 5x increase for a chunkier transformer, some extra control electronics (are they still using ancient microprocessors?) and a vacuum pump is a little much. Yeah they aren't hobbyist grade but going from commercial temp to industrial/mil temp components isn't *that* much of a jump especially considering the low tech HMI.

While I wish their multichannel stations were cheaper, the fact is, they’ve done extremely well for decades with their pricing model. The main reason for the big price jump is that the ADS200 is priced lower than its predecessors were. (Pace expressly said the ADS200 is aggressively priced.)

If you ask me, all (name brand) commercial soldering stations are “overpriced” for what they are: power supplies with smartish thermostats. But the pricing works for the market, and with the big brands you’re also paying for reputation.

Nobody said anything about mil-spec components.

You don't even get an Accudrive sodr-x-tractor!

Nobody Only Hakko makes a cartridge heater desoldering system. AccuDrive is Pace’s (second-generation) cartridge heater standard. Regardless of what heater and thermal feedback technology they use in their desoldering systems, theirs works really well, which is why they can charge what they do. The fact that they came up with that system decades ago only speaks to how good their original design was.

~$1k PSU only would make sense for 3 accudrive channels + pump.

To you. But not to them, and not to the market.

I *want* to support USA manufacturing and development but an fm-206 psu has 3 channels, a pump and hot air for ~500 less. JBC is cheaper and better!

I’m sorry, are you high? 
JBC is excellent. But they’re certainly not cheaper up front (not even close), and they’re far more expensive in terms of consumables (by a substantial margin).


Edit: I’ll be damned, Hakko’s is a cartridge. Thanks, Shock!

[Hydrawerk]

I am thinking about a cartridge soldering tip holder.

[Shock]

Hakkos vaccum desoldering tips for the FM2024 vs the Paces SX100 tips. Hakkos are cartridge but Paces tips I think are undoubtedly more robust and have a larger heater to tip area. Since the break down cost per tip is about 8 times as cheap if you get a problem tip on the Pace system it's not the end of the world.

During the process of vacuuming desoldering I'm often reflowing the joints before removal for optimal extraction. There is virtually no benefit for cartridges on vacuum desoldering handpieces as the handpieces are larger so can incorporate larger heater designs.

Hakkos dross traps are probably a bit quicker to change but Pace has an on demand trap swapping system with fully recyclable consumable traps as well as cleanable glass ones and the pricing is such it's cost and time efficient when implemented.

[helius]

The Metcal desoldering stations also can be considered a type of cartridge (induction heating), using the STDC cartridges.
As for the MBT-360, it is priced appropriately as an upgrade to users of the MBT-350 and other professional systems.

[nimish]

I'm willing to bet a major reason Pace even exists as a going concern are "Buy America" contract requirements. Otherwise they would have gotten blown out by superior European tech or undercut by Chinese manufacturing.

As you say all these stations are insanely overpriced for a heater on a stick   I can't say I've noticed much upgrading to an accudrive but FWIW, somehow their "intelliheat" tech could handle both tip-heater and non-tip-heater systems. Unclear why an upgrade couldn't be done.

[Shock]

In the Intelliheat series only the WJS100 and it's associated tip series were 120W rated. So it would be combining 5 or 6 different handpiece wiring configurations to support 3 different thermocouples to make everything run on the same channel.

Bit of a nightmare and it wouldn't have made the ADS200 any cheaper, in retrospect that could have been the worst thing they could have done.

[tooki]

I'm willing to bet a major reason Pace even exists as a going concern are "Buy America" contract requirements. Otherwise they would have gotten blown out by superior European tech or undercut by Chinese manufacturing.

Uh huh. Which is why they’re also common in European defense & aerospace manufacturing (according to my boss, whose background is defense electronics). Right. 

As you say all these stations are insanely overpriced for a heater on a stick   I can't say I've noticed much upgrading to an accudrive but FWIW, somehow their "intelliheat" tech could handle both tip-heater and non-tip-heater systems.

Because the IntelliHeat connector carries two completely independent control systems. In the post linked below, I explain the control systems Pace uses, and what each connector type has.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/recommendation-for-de-soldering-station-for-through-hole-repair/msg3595853/#msg3595853

Unclear why an upgrade couldn't be done.

What do you mean?

[nimish]

In the Intelliheat series only the WJS100 and it's associated tip series were 120W rated. So it would be combining 5 or 6 different handpiece wiring configurations to support 3 different thermocouples to make everything run on the same channel.

Bit of a nightmare and it wouldn't have made the ADS200 any cheaper, in retrospect that could have been the worst thing they could have done.

I'm willing to bet a major reason Pace even exists as a going concern are "Buy America" contract requirements. Otherwise they would have gotten blown out by superior European tech or undercut by Chinese manufacturing.

Uh huh. Which is why they’re also common in European defense & aerospace manufacturing (according to my boss, whose background is defense electronics). Right. 

As you say all these stations are insanely overpriced for a heater on a stick   I can't say I've noticed much upgrading to an accudrive but FWIW, somehow their "intelliheat" tech could handle both tip-heater and non-tip-heater systems.

Because the IntelliHeat connector carries two completely independent control systems. In the post linked below, I explain the control systems Pace uses, and what each connector type has.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/recommendation-for-de-soldering-station-for-through-hole-repair/msg3595853/#msg3595853

Unclear why an upgrade couldn't be done.

What do you mean?

Sure, but being common in NATO defense contracts is essentially the same thing, riding off of the largesse of a captive market. Anyway, they should advertise louder that the MBT350/360/301 series have both vacuum AND hot air pump capability. It's not obvious -- makes the $$ a lot easier to bear. Probably worth picking up.

It's unclear to me why they couldn't have upgraded all of the old tools to accudrive or have some sort of combo port like they were able to do previously. Keeping an old protocol on one channel doesn't give me a lot of confidence in them upgrading the air-based tools to accudrive.