Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Shock]

Get the instant setback version of the ADS200 if you need stand detection.

[DasDingleberg]

The Pace ADS200 does everything better than the Hakko FX951 in my opinion. Since I got my new Pace stations I also picked up a couple of FX951s and no I would not recommend them if it came down to station vs station, stand vs stand and handpiece vs handpiece, I'd give it to Pace everytime. The Hakko FX951 does have a slightly smaller footprint though.

If you picked apart the Pace ADS200 completely it would be that they use an old micro controller which will be on purpose because they use it in all their products and it's socketed so can be easily upgraded in the field. They use a 7 segment display probably more for reliability than anything. They use an older voltage regulator to power the micro, probably also that it's a jellybean part.

Unfortunately noone has made real clear videos on the Pace ADS200s heating performance on the latest firmware (which is a lot smoother). But this video with the Pace TD200 handpiece running on the Unisolder shows how quick the standard tips heat up.

That is also another option, there is no reason why you can't controller mod your station at some point in the future and leave it still fully reversible. The case and front panel are perfect for modding, about the same size as the Blackjack modded case.

Does this opinion take current prices into account? Also, is the Pace not handling lower temps compared to JBC a legitimate complaint, or is Hakko no better in that respect?

[Shock]

Personally I'd make a T12 clone but with a linear supply if I wanted the same performance as the Hakko FX951. So no I wouldn't go out and buy a new FX951, the two I have are secondhand so paid next to nothing for them.

The JBC overshoots a little due to it's heating profile so at marginal temps it's probably running a little hotter than other stations, same thing as turning up the temp. JBC and Pace are fairly close in speed, roughly twice as fast heating/recovering than the Hakko FX951.

[Cliff Matthews]

Dave Jones may have another tool to review. Boy, an Aussie's work never ends.. Meh, someone's gotta do it..

[BlackICE]

Seems like very nice to have to. I do so little work on on SMD, I try to avoid it. But when I do I used 2 soldering stations a Ksger T12 clone and a welder WE1010NA with two hands. The most I've done so far are small resistors and sot - 5.

[e0ne199]

hello everyone, i am also interested in PACE soldering system, because i really want to do a lot of SMT soldering and TD-100 from older PACE solder station offers so many tip models for chip removal....i really hated it whenever i tried to remove TQFP or any chip with similar footprint like that (with probably different size), it always ended up with broken solder pad after the removal....

anyway, i see there are a lot of tips for TD100A especially for chip removal tips but i can't see similar things for TD200A...

also, there are more types of cool handpieces (especially thermotweez) for ST-50 compared to ADS200..., why is that? i really, really wanted to buy ST-50 system but PACE does not sell it anymore...
do i really have to buy a really more expensive system than ST-50 just to get those cool handpieces?

and is TD-100 tips compatible with TD-200??

thx before for answering my stupid questions...

[exe]

hello everyone, i am also interested in PACE soldering system, because i really want to do a lot of SMT soldering and TD-100 from older PACE solder station offers so many tip models for chip removal....

I heard an opinion that removing smd is best be do with a hot air and bottom heater. That's because you don't need to change tools when switching between different packages. Afaik, you have to use the right cartridge for the package, and there are tons of packages.

So I myself settled on hot air gun + bottom heater. I wonder what other people think.

[Shock]

do i really have to buy a really more expensive system than ST-50 just to get those cool handpieces? and is TD-100 tips compatible with TD-200??

The ADS200 takes only Accudrive handpieces and tips, it's higher performance 120W on a single channel and the tips use a newer K type thermocouple.

The TT65 thermotweez were originally a Sensatemp handpiece but they run on both Sensatemp and Intelliheat stations with the right connector (make sure you get the correct one). I don't see either it or their quad tips phased out until they have a replacement. The TT65 is also sold with the PRC2000 system.

For the Accudrive series there are about 60 TD200 and 13 MT200 tips so far, only a couple of quad tips but Pace announced the MBT450 rework station next so I expect the rework tips to expand due to demand.

[e0ne199]

hello everyone, i am also interested in PACE soldering system, because i really want to do a lot of SMT soldering and TD-100 from older PACE solder station offers so many tip models for chip removal....

I heard an opinion that removing smd is best be do with a hot air and bottom heater. That's because you don't need to change tools when switching between different packages. Afaik, you have to use the right cartridge for the package, and there are tons of packages.

So I myself settled on hot air gun + bottom heater. I wonder what other people think.

i did have a hot air gun, if it is relatively easy to remove smd parts like resistor, inductor, or anything not chip like,but when it comes to removing chips my success rate of removing them will significantly drop......anyway do you have any info about bottom heater? do you know how to work with that on double sided PCB?

[e0ne199]

do i really have to buy a really more expensive system than ST-50 just to get those cool handpieces? and is TD-100 tips compatible with TD-200??

The ADS200 takes only Accudrive handpieces and tips, it's higher performance 120W on a single channel and the tips use a newer K type thermocouple.

The TT65 thermotweez were originally a Sensatemp handpiece but they run on both Sensatemp and Intelliheat stations with the right connector (make sure you get the correct one). I don't see either it or their quad tips phased out until they have a replacement. The TT65 is also sold with the PRC2000 system.

For the Accudrive series there are about 60 TD200 and 13 MT200 tips so far, only a couple of quad tips but Pace announced the MBT450 rework station next so I expect the rework tips to expand due to demand.

thx for the info man 
looks like i have to wait for MBT450's release before deciding to buy ADS200 

[exe]

i did have a hot air gun, if it is relatively easy to remove smd parts like resistor, inductor, or anything not chip like,but when it comes to removing chips my success rate of removing them will significantly drop......anyway do you have any info about bottom heater? do you know how to work with that on double sided PCB?

What problems do you have with removing ICs? May be you need a wider nozzle or more powerful hotair gun? There are big square nozzles to desolder bigger ICs.

As of bottom heater and double-sided boards, I guess it depends on the pcb. If the pcb is not flat on the heater, it will take much longer to warm up. But the heater is here to assist (de-)soldering. So, as soon as pcb reaches 90-110C (whatever, I'm not an expert) you can start using hotair to remove the ICs.

So, bottom heater can be used it two ways: 1) as a preheater for large multilayer boards when heat spreads out very quickly and 2) for (de-)soldering if you set the bottom heater above solder melting temperature. I suggest use the first method to reduce thermal stress to components.

[e0ne199]

i did have a hot air gun, if it is relatively easy to remove smd parts like resistor, inductor, or anything not chip like,but when it comes to removing chips my success rate of removing them will significantly drop......anyway do you have any info about bottom heater? do you know how to work with that on double sided PCB?

What problems do you have with removing ICs? May be you need a wider nozzle or more powerful hotair gun? There are big square nozzles to desolder bigger ICs.

As of bottom heater and double-sided boards, I guess it depends on the pcb. If the pcb is not flat on the heater, it will take much longer to warm up. But the heater is here to assist (de-)soldering. So, as soon as pcb reaches 90-110C (whatever, I'm not an expert) you can start using hotair to remove the ICs.

So, bottom heater can be used it two ways: 1) as a preheater for large multilayer boards when heat spreads out very quickly and 2) for (de-)soldering if you set the bottom heater above solder melting temperature. I suggest use the first method to reduce thermal stress to components.

the problem that i always have when removing chips is when i use hot air gun, i tend to break the pcb trackpad/footprint of the chip whenever i try to remove chips..anyway thx for the info, i think a preheater is just too expensive for me (or perhaps you know the cheap ones?) and i am kind of hobbyist for this kind of thing so i don't think i will rely on a preheater when i try to repair electronics, because my only problem is just on the IC removal

[Shock]

looks like i have to wait for MBT450's release before deciding to buy ADS200

Or call them and ask when, but Pace have hinted from the outset they weren't going to release all the Accudrive tips at once. Since the ADS200 with TD200 was released there has been a couple of batches of additional tips released and the two quad tips were in the last batch.

For the Sensatemp and Intelliheat series from memory the TT65, MT100, TP100, TP65, ST100, TD100A all do quad tips, so what I'm saying is it's probably inevitable as the Accudrive series expands they will include more of them.

[Shock]

About the problem of pulling pads, it's sometimes best to reflow the joints with an iron before removal as old solder doesn't easily flow just under heat alone. Adding flux encourages the wetting action and with solder can make it easier to spot if all sides reach reflow temp.

Tips and tweezers are far easier in some situations, hot air is essential in others. Preheating makes everything easier but that is assuming it's suitable and easy to remove the board. There are also low melt alloys and the destructive removal method, but even that can cause damage to pads if you aren't careful.

[labjr]

You could probably make a preheater of sorts. I saw where an engineering student used an old electric skillet to build make several SMD boards in his remake of the classic Oberheim OB-X synthesizer.   

[exe]

the problem that i always have when removing chips is when i use hot air gun, i tend to break the pcb trackpad/footprint of the chip whenever i try to remove chips..

That's interesting, I rarely have issues with lifted pad (but I also don't do much soldering). Do you wait till the solder melts before pulling? Or, may be, temperature is too hot pcb glue decomposes? Did you check hotair temperature? I do at 300C, probably a bit too hot, but works for me.

Anyway, the cheapest preheater I know is this one: https://revspace.nl/File:DSC06730.JPG . Costs 5-20euro. But requires external temperature control (e.g., thermocouple). Unfortunately, I don't know what's the minimum temperature of this device. All I know is that we were able to make a thermal profile with this device and successfully did reflow of smd smd boards down 0402 and QFN is with no issues .

There are other budget solutions for bottom heaters, check this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/small-bottom-heater-for-rework-and-reflow/

PS ash Shock mentioned, preheater requires board to be removed from the devices, that's quite inconvenient at times. Although, when using hotair gun, I also recommend removing the board, I'm speaking from experience .

[knotlogic]

My next step will be to contact Pace.  I guess I'll have to send the handpiece and faulty tips back, which will be a pain, but we'll see.

Edit: Spelling mistake

Hello, did PACE help you? How did this story end?

Apologies, I've had a busy few months and have barely had time to even browse the forum.  Didn't see this post till now.

So, quick recap, I made an order of an ADS200 and a few tips, and had two tips giving me the CHP error.  I had my suspicions that it was a case of them not seating properly in the handle, as the other two tips did seem to seat further in.  Given they're all different geometries, I didn't take that as conclusive.

I contacted Pace and sent photos of the tips, and they were able to identify them as being from an early batch.  Apparently there's long since been changes to the production process and I should have gotten ones more recently produced.  No indication of what was wrong, but it sounded like the black alignment collar might have been the culprit.  Possibly it was preventing the tips from seating properly.

Support from Pace was first class.  They sent over replacement tips for the two faulty ones I had.  All good, right?

Well, remember I mentioned I've been busy?  I received the tips, but didn't have any time to even look them over, much less test them out.  I eventually did and they both worked fine.  Except quite some weeks later I got to work on a project, and while tidying up after I noticed that one of the tips they'd sent me was a different tip from what I had.  I'd purchased an ultra-performance chisel for a particular high load job, and they'd sent me the standard version of the tip instead.  At that point it'd been weeks if not months since they'd sent the tips, so the fault was mine for not having noticed it sooner.  Besides which they'd already been nice enough to send me replacements on short notice.

And on top of this I'd already used the tip and not noticed!  That specific job I'd bought it for was to solder a SMT power inductor in an area with large heat sinking capacity.  My Metcal didn't have enough power to do the job, but the *standard* Pace tip managed it.  Might have been even easier with the ultra-performance version, but getting that performance out of the standard tip was impressive.

As for what was wrong with the two faulty tips I have?  Well looking at all the tips in my possession, it looks like if you're looking end on at the connector end of the tip, and were to draw a line between the contacts on the blue connector, then the black collar should protrude perpendicularly to that line.  I can't be 100% certain because I wasn't able to do much more than eyeball it, but it appears that isn't the case with the two faulty tips I have.  If that is indeed the problem, I'd guess it means the blue terminal ends up rotated relative to the connector in the handle and won't seat.

Edit: Spelling mistake

[knotlogic]

Oh, and a quick question for all you other ADS200 owners:  What kind of overshoots do you see on initial power up?  On the last job I did, I saw an overshoot of about 20 ˚C when first turning on the station using a 1/16" chisel.  I haven't noticed it doing that before but I got the impression the ADS200 should be more well behaved than that.

[exe]

I saw an overshoot of about 20 ˚C

Is it only during the initial warm up?

[knotlogic]

Is it only during the initial warm up?

Yes, and it's only recently that I noticed it.  I do have the ISB stand, but mid job I'm focused on the board and not the ADS200 display, so I can't say it's not happening then too.

[Hydrawerk]

knotlogic
Thank you for your post. So PACE is quite OK in general.

[Shock]

knotlogicThank you for your post. So PACE is quite OK in general.

I hope they are ok I've been using mine for almost 3 years now.  

Yes, and it's only recently that I noticed it.

The ADS200 firmware will display all thermocouple measurements regardless of temp. So it's not a problem if you see it go high and low on a large transition temp for a second. While the station is heating tip temp will be somewhere below that as the thermocouple is between heater and tip.

[tooki]

knotlogic
Thank you for your post. So PACE is quite OK in general.

I mean, it’s one of the brands used widely in aerospace and defense (where Pace is extremely widespread). Just because they’re not well known to hobbyists doesn’t mean they’re not good. Or in the case of Pace, superb.

[Cliff Matthews]

Another video was uploaded today. I wonder if they've contacted Dave yet.. anyway looks pretty good.


**edit new URL

[5370H55V]

So today the plastic end of my pace tip fractured and broke off inside the handpiece, which is preventing me from inserting any other tips in. Any tips (heh) on how to get it out?
I know they are meant to be consumables, but the tip itself was functional when I removed it and the plastic end failing seems more like a quality control problem issue than usual wear and tear, especially if it puts the entire station out of commission. Should I expect any help from Pace on this problem if I reach out to them?