Pace ADS200 soldering station

[LoneWolf]

In my experience you can do everything with hot air that tweezers are supposed to do, but it takes some skill to avoid desoldering and blowing away nearby components. Especially when working with SMDs.

My trick is to add a good amount of 60/40 to the joints first in order to lower the melting point if this solder relative to the rest, then mask as much as possible with kapton tape.

Also good tweezers is a must.

What about using a regular soldering iron instead of hot air,is that possible? (I been looking into several stations & have narrowed it down to pace ads200,T12 ksger,or a Youyue 3600 which is a $200 jbc clone that allows every type of jbc socket basically such as the 210/245/& tweezers to be used,but I can't figure out whether the dual irons it comes with are actually useful if they can't be used at same exact time afaik,or if I'm better off just buying a ksger?(I can't figure out whether buying a ksger hot air station & t12 ksger for around $100 total is the best option for a hobbyist like me or whether I would be better served by the dual jbc or ads200?)

I have been scouring the web trying to figure it out & in the process I've learned a ton about electronics instead.

[tooki]

The PACE ADS200 is $485 USD here from Farnell, and that's the cheapest option with the regular tool stand (without ISB).

Farnell UK shows £227 for me so that is $310 USD for the ISB model (VAT and shipping extra). Welectron shows  €325 with VAT for the ISB model so thats $398 USD (free shipping to some places). Not an amazing price but not the worst it could be.

Thanks for your help,I have another question,I noticed that Pace also sells tweezers for ads200,I am kinda new to soldering,so will I ever NEED hot tweezers in your opinion,or is hot air capable of everything tweezers can do(even if not as great)? And do I even need hot air as opposed to just using a soldering iron on everything?  I will be using the station to repair electronics of all types, musical equipment,& building things with it like amplifiers,3d printers etc.(I don't own a business though I just plan on using the equipment moderately)

I agree with TheAmmoniacal’s reply above: hot air does everything tweezers do, and shitty tweezers just plain suck.

Given that good tweezers are expensive, and they’re good for exactly one thing (2-pin chip components, or parts for which they make special tips, like for SOICs), whereas you can get a perfectly serviceable hot air station for $50 and it’s very flexible (all types of SMD components, preheating for hand soldering snd desoldering, shrinking heat shrink tube, etc), to me it’s a no-brainer to get hot air first.

[BlackICE]

I have a Weller WE1010NA and Ksger that I've use both together like chopsticks to remove smd diodes. For occasional use it works, much less cost than tweezers. 2 Ksgers are much less than even a Pace. Now if you need more power or do a lot of smd work a Pace or JBC clone may make more sense.

The Ksger is superior to the Weller and cost much less too.

[2N3055]

Tweezers are there for selective, precise control on smallest components..
You can get by with hot air, but for repair of small individual components, tweezers are fastest and most precise..
They are not must have, but for certain kind of jobs, great help.
So if you're not sure, skip them for now, and you'll see soon if you do need them....

[tooki]

In my experience you can do everything with hot air that tweezers are supposed to do, but it takes some skill to avoid desoldering and blowing away nearby components. Especially when working with SMDs.

My trick is to add a good amount of 60/40 to the joints first in order to lower the melting point if this solder relative to the rest, then mask as much as possible with kapton tape.

Also good tweezers is a must.

What about using a regular soldering iron instead of hot air,is that possible? (I been looking into several stations & have narrowed it down to pace ads200,T12 ksger,or a Youyue 3600 which is a $200 jbc clone that allows every type of jbc socket basically such as the 210/245/& tweezers to be used,but I can't figure out whether the dual irons it comes with are actually useful if they can't be used at same exact time afaik,or if I'm better off just buying a ksger?(I can't figure out whether buying a ksger hot air station & t12 ksger for around $100 total is the best option for a hobbyist like me or whether I would be better served by the dual jbc or ads200?)

I have been scouring the web trying to figure it out & in the process I've learned a ton about electronics instead.

I’ve practically never needed two irons.

I’d get the ADS200 with ISB and an 858D-type hot air station.

JBC stuff is great, but holy smokes the tips are expensive. (Admittedly, JBC’s selection of tips is second to none, they have a massive, MASSIVE selection of tips. But at around $30 a piece...)

[LoneWolf]

In my experience you can do everything with hot air that tweezers are supposed to do, but it takes some skill to avoid desoldering and blowing away nearby components. Especially when working with SMDs.

My trick is to add a good amount of 60/40 to the joints first in order to lower the melting point if this solder relative to the rest, then mask as much as possible with kapton tape.

Also good tweezers is a must.

What about using a regular soldering iron instead of hot air,is that possible? (I been looking into several stations & have narrowed it down to pace ads200,T12 ksger,or a Youyue 3600 which is a $200 jbc clone that allows every type of jbc socket basically such as the 210/245/& tweezers to be used,but I can't figure out whether the dual irons it comes with are actually useful if they can't be used at same exact time afaik,or if I'm better off just buying a ksger?(I can't figure out whether buying a ksger hot air station & t12 ksger for around $100 total is the best option for a hobbyist like me or whether I would be better served by the dual jbc or ads200?)

I have been scouring the web trying to figure it out & in the process I've learned a ton about electronics instead.

I’ve practically never needed two irons.

I’d get the ADS200 with ISB and an 858D-type hot air station.

JBC stuff is great, but holy smokes the tips are expensive. (Admittedly, JBC’s selection of tips is second to none, they have a massive, MASSIVE selection of tips. But at around $30 a piece...)

So would you say the Ads200 is worth it at 4-5x the cost of the ksger(keeping in mind I'm a hobbyist) ? I know the ksger requires work to make it safe & it has no guarantee of quality with cheap components,but what other downsides does it have to the pace? (Aside from the pace built like a tank)(I know the hakko tips are more expensive too,but I've heard the fake tips work well too & cost as much as the pace tips?)

Anyone else maybe can give feedback,I don't want to derail this thread but it is about pace ads200,so I figured it should add to the discussion if we get into whether the Pace stations performance is worth 4x more than the ksger?(I know its down to preference but does everyone here think the Pace is worth so much more even for non pros?)
(I know the quality of the pace last a lifetime)

I also wonder whether there's ever a situation where the ksger can better suit a hobbyist?

Is the ksger type solderers chinese junk or just halfway junk?(junk to me means it breaks quickly on average or has poor performance compared to Ads 200.)

[LoneWolf]

I have a Weller WE1010NA and Ksger that I've use both together like chopsticks to remove smd diodes. For occasional use it works, much less cost than tweezers. 2 Ksgers are much less than even a Pace. Now if you need more power or do a lot of smd work a Pace or JBC clone may make more sense.

The Ksger is superior to the Weller and cost much less too.

My mistake,I just seen your reply before I commented last & it seems like you kindve already answered my question but can you please elaborate a bit more in relation to what I asked in my last comment? Thanks so much to everybody here,I feel lucky to have found such a knowledgeable forum of ppl)

[2N3055]

If you're going to keep it for 20 years than ADS200 is worth the money, even for hobby.
After years, most of the price goes to tips anyways, that is why JBC is expensive (not to buy but to keep running, and also tips are not very long lasting).
Pace tips (originals) are 10-15 € , and last quite long.
And station is built like tank, it will last forever...

If you're not sure whether you'll keep the hobby, I wouldn't spend much money on it in general..

[BlackICE]

I have a Weller WE1010NA and Ksger that I've use both together like chopsticks to remove smd diodes. For occasional use it works, much less cost than tweezers. 2 Ksgers are much less than even a Pace. Now if you need more power or do a lot of smd work a Pace or JBC clone may make more sense.

The Ksger is superior to the Weller and cost much less too.

My mistake,I just seen your reply before I commented last & it seems like you kindve already answered my question but can you please elaborate a bit more in relation to what I asked in my last comment? Thanks so much to everybody here,I feel lucky to have found such a knowledgeable forum of ppl)

I like the Ksger better than the Weller because of the faster warmup time and wake from sleep and much easier to change the tips. The Weller's sleep and wakeup is almost unusable. It has to be set to stay awake for a long time. Otherwise it just piss me off because often I go to solder a joint and wonder why it isn't working. Oh, it has to wakeup and that takes too long. Whereas the Ksger is so fast it could sleep every time I put it into the holder and it would be OK for me most of the time.

My Ksger work pretty much as expected expect for the buzzer doesn't seem to work. I don't care about that. I did make the safety mods of grounding the case and adding more clearance between the PCB and heatsink. That said I added a fuse to the primary on the Weller because of the hysteria that Dave Jones rambled about. Probably not needed because it is highly unlikely I would ever plug it into 240v outlet vs the 120v like Dave did.   I have read about some Ksger examples being faulty from day one. So I brought mine from Amazon so I could returned it easier if I was unlucky. I could have paid less getting one from China but I didn't want the possible problems. I am using genuine Hakko tips as they are not really that expensive from Hakko USA free shipping orders > $25. It I started over again I may consider a Pace for more watts, but so far I haven't found a great need for 120w vs 75w.

[Shock]

Want to know where the extra money went in the Pace station aside from the extra 45W, cool running handpiece, calibration free, low cost of ownership, warranty, made in the US (domestically sourced where possible), readable display for anyone older than 40? Try dropping the station or stand on your bare feet from bench height or snapping the handpiece, then compare this to a clone.

Like most Chinese domestic products Ksger stole technology, sucked the life blood out of it, added something shiny to attract the crows, wrapped it up in a new small bundle and sell it back to us at inflated prices with less middlemen and state run subsidized shipping that penalizes our own mail systems when we buy from them. Ksger even knows the trick about including no stand or handpiece to make it look cheap upfront as well as stating the smps total power output rather than the handpiece/cartridge max power. Don't think that they could get off their asses and fix the safety issues or defects, why should they when we are eating it all up and willing to fix problems ourselves? Even if we need support we come to a forum rather than deal with them directly.

Anyway that was where the differences went.

[Bob_McBob]

I'm finally ditching my FX-888D. Is Accessotronik the best source for the ADS200 in Canada?

[Shock]

The list of distributors can be found on the Pace website paceworldwide.com I have a feeling a price increase just occurred as well. So get in quick if it's not rolled out there yet. You want the instant setback model if you want stand wake/low temp (setback) detection.

[Bob_McBob]

The list of distributors can be found on the Pace website paceworldwide.com I have a feeling a price increase just occurred as well. So get in quick if it's not rolled out there yet. You want the instant setback model if you want stand wake/low temp (setback) detection.

I did have a good look through their various North American distributors, and Accessotronik seems like the best option in Canada, but I was wondering if I might have missed something. I suppose I will have to make up my mind quickly if there's a price increase coming.

Most of the soldering I do is heatsinked components in flashlights, which my FX-888D struggles with unless I really crank the heat. I'm a little unclear what kind of improvement I could expect with the ADS200; I gather the JBC units would be better in this respect, but I simply cannot justify the cost for what is largely a hobby with some small paid side jobs. I also particularly like the sound of the setback feature, since my soldering tends to be in short bursts and constantly turning the Hakko on and off and waiting for it to slowly heat up is rather tedious. Instant setback is about $48 USD more expensive up here, and I guess the main benefit would be not having to touch the tip to something each time. I also really like the short grip length to the tip, which would be helpful with one of the more fiddly operations I have to do lifting a lead off a pad surrounded by other components inside the lights.

I've considered other units like the FX-951, but the Pace seems like a more meaningful upgrade. This will probably be the last soldering station I buy, so I'd like to feel confident I'm getting the right thing.

[Shock]

The Pace ADS200 does everything better than the Hakko FX951 in my opinion. Since I got my new Pace stations I also picked up a couple of FX951s and no I would not recommend them if it came down to station vs station, stand vs stand and handpiece vs handpiece, I'd give it to Pace everytime. The Hakko FX951 does have a slightly smaller footprint though.

If you picked apart the Pace ADS200 completely it would be that they use an old micro controller which will be on purpose because they use it in all their products and it's socketed so can be easily upgraded in the field. They use a 7 segment display probably more for reliability than anything. They use an older voltage regulator to power the micro, probably also that it's a jellybean part.

Unfortunately noone has made real clear videos on the Pace ADS200s heating performance on the latest firmware (which is a lot smoother). But this video with the Pace TD200 handpiece running on the Unisolder shows how quick the standard tips heat up.

That is also another option, there is no reason why you can't controller mod your station at some point in the future and leave it still fully reversible. The case and front panel are perfect for modding, about the same size as the Blackjack modded case.

[Bob_McBob]

Thanks for the reassurance, I went ahead and ordered the ADS200 from Accessotronik. They don't have any stock right now so I have to wait a couple weeks, but I'm looking forward to trying it.

[Shock]

The Pace videos on youtube give a lot of best practices on soldering efficiency which helps with more demanding joints. Simple things like tip selection and the amount of contact with the target will make a difference. But if you have optimal cleaning of the target, wetting with additional flux, a clean tip and a solder bridge created between the tip and joint, it allows more heat to distribute into the board and has a cascading effect on performance.

You can also crank up the temp as well and there are techniques to circumvent damaging temperature sensitive components such as sliding the component into place last when you have a soldered pad at temp. Just depends on what you are doing, if everything is a struggle you might need to preheat or adjust your process in some way.

[Hydrawerk]

My next step will be to contact Pace.  I guess I'll have to send the handpiece and faulty tips back, which will be a pain, but we'll see.

Edit: Spelling mistake

Hello, did PACE help you? How did this story end?

[No-Idea113]

Is the Pace ADS200 still worth the cost it seems to be going for now? $350.55 USD with ISB at tequipment.net? Link
Seems like a drastic jump in price from what it was not long ago. Are there better options given the new pricing? If it was still in the mid 200s this wouldn't be a question.

[thm_w]

Price is quite high for general hobbyist use at this point. If you are buying for company/production use, still worth it though.
Hopefully its a temporary increase due to sourcing issues and not a permanent bait and switch.

I don't think there are specifically better options in that class, but there are still plenty of T12 and JBC clones at a much lower price point.

[No-Idea113]

Yeah, it is for hobby use.
Was not really looking for a clone, but I guess I could investigate which ones might be 'worthy'.
Or is the call now is do I suck it up and pay the price or hope it goes down in the future and not up further?

[Shock]

Yes it looks like the RRP went up 10-15%. You can still get the 6% off though with the eevblog code but if you missed the special at the end of the year not much you can do but gamble on if another one comes.

[fubgumfaw]

-I guess I'm an advanced hobbyist. I do solder a lot. Sometimes I'll solder for 6 or 7 hours at a time while working on some project.Still...the ADS200 is way more than I'll probably ever need.
-I have owned a HAKKO 936 since 2010 and it has served me pretty darn well. The $150 I paid for it back then was a big pill to swallow, but it was a good investment considering the amount of use I have gotten out of it over the past 10 years. It's still working great after 10 years.
-This week because I needed more wattage than the 936 produced, I finally broke down and bought a HAKKO 961. I've put it off because of the cost of the thing. I do a lot of large solder work where I have maxed out the 936. This is not the first time where the 936 was not powerful enough for the job. Once again...the cost of the 961 was a hard pill to swallow, but what do you do when you need more wattage?
- I did look at the Pace ADS200, but it's selling for $450 on Amazon and that is frankly WAAAAY too rich for my blood!

[2N3055]

Hakko FX951 maybe? There is no Hakko FX961 as far as I know

- I did look at the Pace ADS200, but it's selling for $450 on Amazon and that is frankly WAAAAY too rich for my blood!

Why?? In USA you could have ordered directly from PACE...
https://paceworldwide.com/ads200-accudrive-soldering-station-td-200-isb-cubby-3-tip-bundle-120v-only

Or Tequipment:

https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/ADS200-8007-0593/Soldering-Stations/?b=y&v=126323

And asked here for EEVBLOG discount.:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-members-discount-at-tequipment/

[Shock]

Yes if you are in the US the Pace ADS200 is about $330 at the moment for the ISB model, which includes our 6% discount and free shipping from Tequipment, ~$350 is likely full RRP. As I mentioned previously before the last price increase just a few months back it was ~$265 after discount.

The Pace ADS200 is also a 120W station, as much power as the Hakko 936 and FX951 handpieces (50W/70W) combined. Power increase between those models is 20W, and Hakko T12/T15 series are "standard" carts. Pace uses ultra (like JBC) and standard in the same handpiece, so there are a few things to consider.

[fubgumfaw]

Yes if you are in the US the Pace ADS200 is about $330 at the moment for the ISB model, which includes our 6% discount and free shipping from Tequipment, ~$350 is likely full RRP. As I mentioned previously before the last price increase just a few months back it was ~$265 after discount.

The Pace ADS200 is also a 120W station, as much power as the Hakko 936 and FX951 handpieces (50W/70W) combined. Power increase between those models is 20W, and Hakko T12/T15 series are "standard" carts. Pace uses ultra (like JBC) and standard in the same handpiece, so there are a few things to consider.

I created an account on eevblog for other reasons. It was not til after I bought a 961 that I discovered these threads about the ADS200 for less money. I jsut got the 961 from Amazon days ago. I can return it. It's worked fine so far, but with the discount and the greater wattage, the ADS200 is sounding like a better deal. Can you PM me please with that discount code?