Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station (Read 462818 times)

Shock · « **Reply #1375 on:** July 01, 2020, 08:27:13 pm »

Here is the list of Accudrive cartridges Aaron posted for us in 2019 (see attachment at the bottom) last time I counted which was probably this list, the website and checking tequipment.net I got somewhere around 62.

knotlogic · « **Reply #1376 on:** July 02, 2020, 08:10:49 am »

Thanks Shock, I forgot about that pdf.

So, under All Products | Soldering Iron Tips, there are 54 tips - 38 standard, 16 ultra performance.
Searching for 1130-0 (standard tip prefix?) returns 43 results, and for 1131 returns 16. (It looks like 1130-10 returns all the MT-200 tips.)
That pdf lists 43 standard tips, and 17 ultra performance ones....

I've added the 5 "missing" standard tips to the spreadsheet. They don't show the part number when doing a search for 1130-0. And I can't find 1131-0019-P1 on the Pace website, but a Google search shows that vendors do list it. That brings us to a total of 60 tips, so I'm wondering what I've missed.

knotlogic · « **Reply #1377 on:** July 02, 2020, 08:18:19 am »

Quote from: Shock on July 01, 2020, 05:25:38 pm

Having a tip the same size as a pin or pad is not always the best solution for bridges as you can redistribute or reflow multiple pads with wider tips that have better heating. Small tips tend to work poorly with larger wick as you are heating the wick, pin, pad and pcb all at once.

My plan for a long thin tip and a QFN is not to hold the tip with the axis perpendicular to the QFN side, but roughly parallel, and wipe it along. So I'm not just using the tip of the, uh, tip, but the length of it. I've used a small chisel in the past for this, but the issue is the ones I've used have never been quite fine enough to get into that corner between chip side and PCB easily. I'm not sure if this will actually work the way I plan though.

Did you pick up the 1130-0050-P1? I think it was on one of your lists in an earlier post, and Aaron mentioned it was a modification of the 1130-0036-P1 as requested by a customer. Was hoping to hear how you find it.

tooki · « **Reply #1378 on:** July 02, 2020, 03:32:16 pm »

Sounds to me like what you want is a smaller PLCC blade. Maybe it’s something Pace can be cajoled into making, since they already have a PLCC blade.

Shock · « **Reply #1379 on:** July 02, 2020, 11:32:11 pm »

Yes I have that tip and also the bent conical as well plus others. Use a clean fine tip and flux and either touch or drag a few times down the edge to pick it up or redistribute it or try a ball of molten solder.

If you are spending a lot of time reworking mistakes then you should look at how much paste you are using and how you apply it (such as less paste on the die attach pad) or use a smaller sphere diameter. If you have too much paste on the pad and press down on the package during reflow it creates bridges.

Shock · « **Reply #1380 on:** July 03, 2020, 09:51:00 am »

By the way don't read too much into me getting the special tip version, if I recall correctly I looked at the Intelliheat series tips which share a lot of the same geometries and didn't notice a difference. I probably ordered the special version just for fun. I looked at both tonight up close and still can't tell.

jivaei · « **Reply #1381 on:** July 11, 2020, 01:19:32 am »

Just received this station from TEquipment. Are some of the tips supposed to look used? The second one (from the left) looks ok. But the tips of other three are brownish in color (probably from heating) and has some solder on the tips.

Edit: Yes
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/msg2720082/?topicseen#msg2720082

helius · « **Reply #1382 on:** July 11, 2020, 03:00:28 am »

It is a requirement for soldering tips to be factory tinned, as the iron plating would otherwise corrode in the atmosphere. All soldering tips you buy have tin on them.

PACE tests the AccuDrive cartridges at their factory to prevent shipping D.O.A. units. This can discolor the tips slightly.
See the comment here

knotlogic · « **Reply #1383 on:** July 12, 2020, 08:27:32 am »

Quote from: tooki on July 02, 2020, 03:32:16 pm

Sounds to me like what you want is a smaller PLCC blade. Maybe it’s something Pace can be cajoled into making, since they already have a PLCC blade.

Would that be the knife blade you're referring to? I'd be hesitant to ask them about a special design since my estimated requirement for such a tip would be just 1. :p

It's been a busy week for me so I haven't had a chance to ask Pace about a list of available tips. Hopefully that's be next on my to do list.

I'm doing assembly by hand, since these are either 1 off units or hobby projects, and work with a syringe of paste and a hot air station. With QFN parts I try to err on the side of caution and would rather put a bit too little paste on the centre pad rather than too much. But getting just the right amount on the leads is a problem for me and I usually do a quick touch up just to be sure. PLCC / Knife blade aside, any recommendations for a good tip geometry for touch up? Aside from that special tip I mentioned, I was thinking a fine chisel (say 0.8 mm) might also work, and would be more (use) flexible. Without having the tip in front of me I find it difficult to get a feel for how small they actually are.

tooki · « **Reply #1384 on:** July 12, 2020, 11:46:23 am »

Yes, the knife. Just maybe ask if they’re planning to release a smaller one. (Look at JBC for some examples of smaller knife tips.)

Otherwise, I’d use a miniwave tip. Remember that especially with flux, the tip doesn’t have to be as small as the pads.

Shock · « **Reply #1385 on:** July 13, 2020, 01:59:56 am »

Here is a video I found which shows a conical being used on QFN. Hard to tell from the angle but it looks close to 0.40mm and gives you an idea of tip size.

This is not the best demonstration of reflow as cleaning and flux application weren't fully shown. In my opinion it was rushed a little and messed around with too much. He did mentioned it's a prototype though, he was probably planning to rework it regardless.

Having exposed terminal edges and lands will make it easier to do touch ups. As I said if you have a selection that includes a couple of fine tips you can't really go wrong. Even in a worse case scenario you can fix most problems by cleaning, using flux and preheating if the board is cold or hard to work on with fine tips.

exe · « **Reply #1386 on:** July 13, 2020, 02:18:51 pm »

I managed to solder qfn just with an iron, without using hotair

. Can't really recommend that as it's a bit of PITA.

I feel like the IC on the video got quite some heating, but I understand why he did soldering twice: to get confidence it's soldered properly.

Shock · « **Reply #1387 on:** July 14, 2020, 02:23:31 am »

I just found what he used and I was correct it was a 0.4mm long conical (0.5mm pitch gave it away) tip temp was 700F/370C. Flux was MG Chemicals 8341 and the solder was Kester Rosin Core 63/37.

knotlogic · « **Reply #1388 on:** July 14, 2020, 02:16:51 pm »

Thanks Shock. That's pretty much how I've been touching up my QFN parts, except I've been using a chisel. My aim was to try and keep my selection of tips to a minimum, because I can well imagine I'd end up with tips I'd never use otherwise.

(Edit: word missing)

knotlogic · « **Reply #1389 on:** July 30, 2020, 12:46:09 pm »

So I got in contact with Pace, asking about the availability of tips, and they sent me an updated product sheet (attached below). It includes the "missing" 1131-0019-P1, but this sheet is now missing the 1131-0032-P1. (I've mentioned that to them.)

There is apparently very little difference in the geometry between the 1130-0032-P1 Miniwave® (3.05mm) and the 1130-0049-P1 MINIWAVE® SPECIAL Tip, and it was suggested the regular one would do me fine.

And they have no current plans for a smaller knife tip, but would be open to hearing from me if I had something particular in mind.

I've updated the spreadsheet, all in all there are 60 tips available at the moment that I know of.

Could I get some feedback on my tip selection? I'm thinking of getting the following:

- A general purpose chisel that should handle 80% of what I do.
1130-0019-P1   1/16" 30˚ Chisel (1.59mm)

- A fine chisel. Something for more delicate work that the general purpose chisel is a bit too cumbersome for. I use mostly 0805 and 0603 parts. Either:
1130-0012-P1   1/32" 30˚ Chisel (0.80mm), or
1130-0016-P1   3/64" 30˚ Bent Chisel (1.20mm)
The bent tip would be nice, but I'm leaning more towards the 0.8 mm since this is an alternative to the 1.59mm tip.

- A fine conical. Mostly for QFN touch up work.
1130-0002-P1   1/64" Conical Sharp (0.40mm), or
1130-0004-P1   1/64" Conical Sharp Extended (0.40mm)
Same tip geometry, but I'm wondering if the extended is easier to work with. On the flip side it would mean a (marginally) longer working distance and I wonder how thermal properties compare.

- A MiniWave.
1130-0032-P1   Miniwave® (3.05mm), or
1130-0035-P1   Angled MiniWave Surface Mount Installation Tip (2.11mm)
With the smaller parts nowadays, I'm wondering if the 2.11mm tip is the better option here. There is a 1.10mm micro-wave tip, but I think that might be too small.

- And finally, a large tip for heavy soldering.
1131-0010-P1   13/64" Chisel (5.15mm)

tooki · « **Reply #1390 on:** July 30, 2020, 03:24:13 pm »

What I don’t see is any chisel in the 2-4mm range. I use my 2.4mm and 3.2mm chisels a lot, for larger THT components and connectors where the 1.6mm is too small (but where a 5mm would be much too big).

I’d also seriously consider the 1.1mm mini wave, I bet it’d be better at cleaning up QFNs than a conical tip.

I have a 0.4mm chisel (which is almost indistinguishable from a conical) I got for SMD touchup, and I practically never use it. I find my 2.3mm wave tip and the knife blade to be more useful, generally.

I suspect the 1.1mm and 2.1mm mini wave tips would be phenomenal for the 0805 and 0603 parts, too. (I find wave tips to be useful well beyond their intended purpose of drag soldering gull-wing ICs.)

thm_w · « **Reply #1391 on:** July 30, 2020, 08:14:01 pm »

1.59mm chisel is already quite small, and is fine enough for 0603's.
I use a bent fine conical for small mod rework, straight would probably work too. Don't overthink it.

knotlogic · « **Reply #1392 on:** July 31, 2020, 05:51:21 am »

Quote from: tooki on July 30, 2020, 03:24:13 pm

What I don’t see is any chisel in the 2-4mm range. I use my 2.4mm and 3.2mm chisels a lot, for larger THT components and connectors where the 1.6mm is too small (but where a 5mm would be much too big).

I’d also seriously consider the 1.1mm mini wave, I bet it’d be better at cleaning up QFNs than a conical tip.

I have a 0.4mm chisel (which is almost indistinguishable from a conical) I got for SMD touchup, and I practically never use it. I find my 2.3mm wave tip and the knife blade to be more useful, generally.

I suspect the 1.1mm and 2.1mm mini wave tips would be phenomenal for the 0805 and 0603 parts, too. (I find wave tips to be useful well beyond their intended purpose of drag soldering gull-wing ICs.)

I actually find a 1.5mm tip sufficient for the THT work I do, which is why I skipped over anything larger. The 5mm chisel would be for larger SMD power inductors (which is also the only ultra performance tip among my choices). I probably should clarify that I do use a ~1.5mm tip already for 0805s and 0603s. It works fine, but I thought it might be useful to have a finer option. Of course another option is to drop the smaller chisel entirely from my list, and pick up another tip later as needs demand.

Re: Using a miniwave for QFN touch up - the person I spoke to at Pace suggested the same as an alternative to a knife blade. I am curious as to how well it works with the 1.1mm tip. I would have expected that there's a lower limit past which the geometry isn't as effective.

Completely agree with you that too fine a chisel is near indistinguishable from a conical. I've come across that myself before, but so long ago that I don't remember how small the chisel was.

Shock · « **Reply #1393 on:** July 31, 2020, 06:20:56 am »

If you aren't doing rework then base your Miniwave tip selection on the pin/lead length and clearance. If you look at the Pace Miniwave videos on youtube it gives you an idea of different contact angles. The 2mm and 3mm Miniwaves are somewhat interchangeable due to the nature of drag soldering, but technically it's always going to be use the best tip for the job.

I'd probably go for the standard 0.40mm conical, should have slightly better thermal performance. As I mentioned earlier I prefer a selection of chisels, and since the carts are easy to swap over it's an enjoyable experience. But if you don't think you will use them any time soon it's no big deal.

thm_w · « **Reply #1394 on:** August 14, 2020, 11:42:15 pm »

Not sure if this has been documented yet, photos of handle are attached.
NTC is 2.4k at room temperature, slightly unusual value.

Handle is very nicely made. Small flex at the tip when forced, ~1mm or so.
I still say Metcal MX-H1-AV is the best handle, its lighter, softer grip, and has less flex, but can rotate due to no tab (Pace will not rotate). Of course more expensive too.

labjr · « **Reply #1395 on:** August 15, 2020, 12:03:17 am »

Well you can't just change the handle. You have to use one system or the other.

Shock · « **Reply #1396 on:** August 15, 2020, 04:13:54 am »

A lot of the design in the Pace handle has been around 20 years in the original TD100 but the most significant change was going to aluminum.

Couple of advantages is the cable can be replaced quickly as a part, but looks easy to repair if required. You won't run into problems swapping tips on the fly, Metcals are meant to be turned off before changing. Pace also gives you a tip tool for swapping tips in addition to the silicon pad.

The key seats the Pace cartridges into the middle of the handle instead of the socket so there is little chance of over inserting the tip and there is minimal thermal contact, which Pace markets as "cool touch". Having the tip rotation fixed I think is desirable using large blades and QFP style tips, so I don't see a problem there.

thm_w · « **Reply #1397 on:** August 17, 2020, 06:23:39 pm »

Quote from: Shock on August 15, 2020, 04:13:54 am

A lot of the design in the Pace handle has been around 20 years in the original TD100 but the most significant change was going to aluminum.

Couple of advantages is the cable can be replaced quickly as a part, but looks easy to repair if required. You won't run into problems swapping tips on the fly, Metcals are meant to be turned off before changing. Pace also gives you a tip tool for swapping tips in addition to the silicon pad.

The key seats the Pace cartridges into the middle of the handle instead of the socket so there is little chance of over inserting the tip and there is minimal thermal contact, which Pace markets as "cool touch". Having the tip rotation fixed I think is desirable using large blades and QFP style tips, so I don't see a problem there.

Yes the fixed rotation is a clear advantage. Its an added cost to the handle machining + tip manufacturing process.
Agree about the design being easy to repair, cable could be swapped out without much work.

Quote from: labjr on August 15, 2020, 12:03:17 am

Well you can't just change the handle. You have to use one system or the other.

True.
There is some opportunity to make custom handles if you can find the appropriate connector. The Pace connector is very similar to a standard T12 clone plug, but the contacts are in a different spot and diameter is thinner so its not easy. The pace tip fits nicely in the metcal handle, until you reach the tab.

Outer tip diameter:
- T12 5.50mm
- Pace 4.70mm
- Metcal ~4.7mm

shivramk · « **Reply #1398 on:** August 29, 2020, 03:37:04 pm »

I just received my pace ads 200 today. I must say it is really well built. When I turn it on though the transformer makes a buzzing noise. It's not very loud, but certainly loud enough to bother. The intensity of the noise increases when the hand piece is drawing power. I wanted to check if this noise is to be expected. My station seems to be working fine otherwise. I don't see mention of the noise issue in this thread, nor in any reviews that I've seen. This is making me wonder if I have a defective piece. I did come across another post on this forum https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/pace-ads200-transformer-audible-noise/ which reported the same issue, but it doesn't have any replies. Has anybody else encountered similar behaviour?

knotlogic · « **Reply #1399 on:** August 30, 2020, 10:39:59 am »

So, my turn to join the ADS200 club. My station arrived yesterday:

It came shipped as a box in a box, so no damage to the inner box and the contents looked pristine. And yes, it's packing v1.4 firmware.

That was the good part.

The bad part is two of the four tips I ordered give me the CHP error.

I ordered two chisel tips, a conical and a miniwave, with both chisels giving me the CHP error. The other two appear to work, but I didn't bring them up to temperature all the way, since I was swapping between them all trying to see how bad the problem is. I think the problem is the two chisel tips won't seat fully. With the tips inserted in the handpiece I measured the heater pins on the connector on the other end. (Thanks thm_w for posting that photo a few posts back!) The faulty tips read open circuit, while the other two read 4-5 Ohms.

I also spent a fair bit of time taking measurements, and comparing the chisels to the conical, the conical sits about 4mm deeper into the handpiece than the chisels. (The miniwave is a longer tip, and I was already fairly sure of things by this point so I didn't bother comparing it.) I haven't tried forcing the chisels in, but I'm definitely using a bit more force than the other two with no success. With the conical and miniwave, they just slide in smoothly.

My next step will be to contact Pace. I guess I'll have to send the handpiece and faulty tips back, which will be a pain, but we'll see.

Edit: Spelling mistake


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