Pace ADS200 soldering station

[labjr]

There are also 30 or so ICs on each input channel strip. But I think they're socketed. TG

[Shock]

How fast can you do 1200 caps?

[labjr]

Depends how do it. If you pull all the modules and do it assembly line style, it will probably take a couple days with a desoldering gun. Not something I want to do with solder wick.

[tooki]

Now all we need is for Pace to make an affordable vacuum desoldering iron!

Yep! Someone from a local recording studio contacted me to refurbish a mixing console. It has approx. 1,200 capacitors which need to be replaced. I've been thinking about one of those Chinese made contraptions. I don't receive enough of that type of work to invest in a better quality station.

Sounds to me like you have 2400 good reasons to invest in a desoldering iron now! 

Given how fickle desoldering stations can be on their best days, I think the Chinese ones are asking for nothing but frustration. They might be OK for hobbyist use, but definitely not for professional use, especially not for large projects like that one!

[mcovington]

Are those 1,200 capacitors all electrolytic?  If they're plastic film or ceramic, why do they need replacing?  As someone else pointed out, the most failure-prone parts in a mixing console are probably fader pots and connectors.

[labjr]

Are those 1,200 capacitors all electrolytic?  If they're plastic film or ceramic, why do they need replacing?  As someone else pointed out, the most failure-prone parts in a mixing console are probably fader pots and connectors.

Mostly electrolytic capacitors. The problem is some channels don't work. And you can't troubleshoot the modules once your pull them. So best to rebuild them by changing all capacitors and IC's. The IC's are pretty easy because they're socketed. And newer production opamp IC's will improve the sound and can even be upgraded to higher performance parts. There are also analog multiplexer ICs used for some of the switching. Fader pots can be changed separately if neccessary. But again, I can't troubleshoot with a scope, so I think it's best to change everything that may fail vs driving back and forth multiple times.

[tooki]

That is almost certainly not the best approach, considering the monumental effort of replacing thousands of components. Instead, grab the modules for the bad channels and methodically fix and test those component by component, so you identify what components have failed, so you can make intelligent choices about what components to replace prophylactically on the good channels. If this means doing some diagnostics and repairs onsite, then do that.

Replacing everything all at once robs you of critical information about what failed. And there’s always the risk of making things worse.


P.S. Don’t be so sure that replacing old op-amps with “better” ones will improve the sound. Those circuits may behave worse with the “better” op-amps, because they weren’t designed for an op-amp with those characteristics, and could end up oscillating, for example.

[labjr]

There are more than two dozen op-amps in each input channel strip. I'm not changing one part at a time. Anything could have failed. Replacement op-amps are 50 cents. Upgraded Burr Brown IC's are $2.50. They've been tested in this console and work well. So it's up to the customer if they want to spend the extra to upgrade. 

Replacing everything is methodical. The console is 35 years old. If I just fix one issue on a board it will fail again, and it will be my fault. So I'm being thorough. That's the way I work.

[wr4t]

Are tweezers of any use in removing DIP packages, or are they strictly used for SMT?  It would seem some of the broad tips could be use to remove small DIPs  (8,14,16 pin) either from the top side, or by pulling from the top with another tool and  applying heat to the bottom with the tweezers.  Will they open wide enough for this to work?

[Shock]

Are tweezers of any use in removing DIP packages, or are they strictly used for SMT?  It would seem some of the broad tips could be use to remove small DIPs  (8,14,16 pin) either from the top side, or by pulling from the top with another tool and  applying heat to the bottom with the tweezers.  Will they open wide enough for this to work?

If it was a wide enough tip I don't see why it wouldn't work, you might want to touch up the legs with some fresh solder though prior to reflow to make extracting smoother. I would say Paces vacuum desoldering handpiece would be safer for through hole especially if encountering difficult removals which requires more dwell time. If the part is not being reused it probably doesn't matter.

Pace also sells a larger tweezer the TT-65 for the Intelliheat stations including some 25mm blades. It does SOIC, SOJ, SIMM, LCC/LCCC, PLCC, PQFP packages and general SMD components. I thought that this handpiece would be ideal if you ever needed custom tips.

[EEVblog]

Great video Aaron/Pace the MT200s are looking great. That music is kind of catchy as well.

Nice.
They so need a dual version of the ADS200 base station now.

[Shock]

Nice. They so need a dual version of the ADS200 base station now.

Three channels with vacuum is even better Dave . They said in the video "for Accudrive compatible stations" a plural has been used so it's officially happening.

[wr4t]

I would say Paces vacuum desoldering handpiece would be safer for through hole especially if encountering difficult removals which requires more dwell time. If the part is not being reused it probably doesn't matter.

Back in the 90's our employer had Pace vacuum removal gear, it worked on most DIP packages, but if you were removing large DIPs and plated through holes were sized with no clearance you could not get all the solder out of the holes.  The holes were too tight to rock the leads as well. More often than not you had to clip the leads and remove one pin at a time.  This was particularly a problem with the pins on the power and ground planes or boards that were thicker than 62 mills.  The process for a large DIP like a 68000 CPU was quite time consuming.  The SX-100 looks much simpler to clean and maintain then what we had back then, but I don't know if this technology actually works any better than what we had 30 years ago.

There is simply no comparison between my old Weller WTCP from that era and the ADS 200 I received for Christmas but not sure that applies to vacuum removal gear. Oh, and the tweezers are a fraction of the cost of the vacuum station & handpiece.

[Shock]

One thing Pace did with the newer vacuum desoldering tips is add a fluted end to improve flow into the trap. But otherwise the laws of physics haven't changed, if you jam pins or legs in tight it's hard to remove without damage while the joint is sweated.

There is a bit of crossover in the Pace tool range. You can do smd removal with the SX100 with pick tips that utilize the vacuum, plus it has flat faced desoldering tips for track and pad cleaning. So it's not just solely for through hole. The TP100 mini tweezer has a pick tool built in as well.

On the TD200 you can get a lot of bang for buck with just a large chisel. I tested it out initially by removing small through hole components by heating both legs at once. That said, brute force isn't without risk, if the legs are slightly formed of clinched it requires a lot more force which combined with heat is where damage can occur. For vacuum desoldering you can take your time and get a bit more feedback. Just my thoughts on it anyway.

[Cliff Matthews]

Yup! But I've now chiseled my way into a parts surplus I'll never escape.. 

[dkggpeters]

https://paceworldwide.com/mt-200-minitweez-kit

[Shock]

It's about a hundred more than their previous model. From what I see more power, adjustment, aluminum legs, new instant setback stand and a few more smd tips in the series.

[Alex Eisenhut]

I would like a tweezer for my ADS200 but at that price I'll stick to the dual-iron technique. You can buy a lot of KSGER T12s for that money... (And I did LOL)

[labjr]

Yeah I feel like they're jacking up the prices now!

[Shock]

Yeah I feel like they're jacking up the prices now!

Aaron from Pace told us about the ADS200 introductory list price ($265 for instant setback) when the station came out, also the new tweezers were more expensive than the older model, and that Pace has no control over dealer pricing.

If you paid addition to the prices on tequipments website you will have noticed they aren't discounting the station or tweezers 10% at the moment. When you stack that with our 6% it makes quite a difference. So in reality there is less price "discounting" than price "jacking" on tequipments website.

[tooki]

It's about a hundred more than their previous model. From what I see more power, adjustment, aluminum legs, new instant setback stand and a few more smd tips in the series.

Not to mention that the station it connects to is cheaper than the stations the older tweezers go with.

[dkggpeters]

It's about a hundred more than their previous model. From what I see more power, adjustment, aluminum legs, new instant setback stand and a few more smd tips in the series.

Not to mention that the station it connects to is cheaper than the stations the older tweezers go with.

I have a feeling that they will expand the Accudrive line to be the successor to the Intelliheat line

[tooki]

Yes, I’ve assumed that to be the case from the beginning.

[Shock]

Just saw this tip holder for Pace cartridge tips posted on Thingiverse.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4206731

[neo_]

I was waiting to purchase the new MT-200 tweezers when they are released, but at $400(with ISB) is nearly double then what I paid for the entire ADS200 station and TD-200 soldering pen combo. MT-200 is about twice the cost of MT-100. A bit overpriced, in my opinion. Reminds of JBC pricing...

Just saw this tip holder for Pace cartridge tips posted on Thingiverse.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4206731

Placing the tips in and out into the retail packaging is adding additional time and effort compared to storing tips in the holes on the ISB base.