Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Cliff Matthews]

For a company that's been in soldering this long I'm amazed they didn't realise that it's important to be able to rotate the tip.... what a fail!
 

Rotate handle Yeah, the cord tends to form in one direction, but it's supple enough to quickly form to a new position

[Monkeh]

In terms of comparing the ability to deliver power at the set temperature, I guess it's a not-entirely-ridiculous test, but it doesn't really have any bearing on actual soldering performance.

<320C is silly and just leads to spending all your time turning the temperature up and down for different joints.

Technique is far more valuable than varying temperature.

[Dyaxxis]

Dave's stated premise was that you should solder at the lowest temperature possible. This is not exactly correct. You should solder at a temperature no higher than you can safely and consistently control the process. That being said, the inertia of bench techs, production operators and their supervisors is to turn the temperature up to maximize throughput and minimize the time it takes to reflow the solder (in either an assembly, rework or removal operation).  Concerning the low temperatures used, even back in the eutectic Sn/Pb solder days, our guidance during our training classes was to start everyone out at 316°C or 600°F with solder that melted at 183°C (361°F). I believe Dave was using a Pb-free solder with a melting point of 227°C (441°F) at 270°C? I can’t think of anyone that solders at such a low temp using lead-free solder ... except maybe Dyaxxis? ;-)

To each their own, but then again... there's a variety of factors that DO NOT always allow me to remain at that range. To correct my own misstatement, I'll rephrase by saying "the lowest, most effective temperature possible along with the most optimal dwell time along with tip shapes and other techniques to yield the most reliable joint possible." It's not always a "one technique does all", so I do adjust my temps according if/when necessary.

So, if you are able to solder a joint at a very low temperature, but that solder joint isn't reliable, then I believe you're NOT soldering at the "lowest temperature possible."

Now, I haven't trained directly at Pace's headquarter training facilities, but I was trained with the films/videos in the very late 80's/early 90's (even from the early ones with presenter Paul "Weatherman" Anthony). And yes, your techniques are what I refer to as "de facto" training techniques, but again... procedures may change "when we leave the training room..." 

[jagw]

I have been using my ADS-200 daily since it was delivered in April with the original rev 1-0 software.

It is an amazing value for the money and one rock solid piece of equipment.   Support from Pace had been responsive while sorting out the early issues (which in reality caused me no downtime whatsoever).

Yes, like anything, it has some very minor flaws, but certainly nothing that is costing me any performance or productivity.  For me it is a great tool.

[PACE-Worldwide]

For a company that's been in soldering this long I'm amazed they didn't realise that it's important to be able to rotate the tip.... what a fail!
 

Rotate handle Yeah, the cord tends to form in one direction, but it's supple enough to quickly form to a new position

We looked at the possibility of a freely rotating tip. Our final design was influenced by Engineering & time-to-market concerns. First of all, there are many customers that love our stationary tip design, and we have yet to receive one complaint about this on our older stations. For example, many of our military customers require a non-rotating tip to deal with conformally coated and bonded components (you gently turn the handle along with custom 4-sided tips to break the bond under surface mounted components), which won't work on say, a Metcal handpiece. But the rotating "feature" was reconsidered when Engineers estimated it would take over a year to redesign/manufacture/test the tips and resulting iron, which would have delayed introduction of the ADS200 by up to 18 months.

My own preference is for a non-rotating tip, but hey, I'm a PACE-guy!

[Cliff Matthews]

Found another Pace review, this one blows the doors off the Hakko. (heh, I guess my lingo shows a few grey hairs..) 


Give a like, and consider subbing to the channel (they may even be on our EEVblog YouTubers list.. Bulah?)

[nanofrog]

Why is the setback feature called INSTANT setback when it is delayed? Wouldn't automatic setback be a more suitable name?

Marketing terminology I guess. FWIW, my Weller gear reminds me of this (WD1 base unit had user settable timers), but add in the optional setback stand, and even more settings come into play.

Makes it rather customizable, but also a bit confusing. Definitely RTFM territory.

But note that it was never our intention to design a "JBC Killer" ... we just wanted to produce a solid, low cost, reliable soldering station...[snip].

As Dave mentioned in his review, perhaps a better comparison would be against the Hakko 951. From a cost of ownership basis, JBC is double the price for the initial cost and more than double the price of our tips, so we need to have realistic expectations. We will be successful in 90-95% of the applications, and against the competition, even JBC, in standard applications.

From what I see, it does need a few kinks worked out in software, but you've otherwise accomplished that IMHO. The comparison between the ADS200 and FX-951 is certainly valid for those in the US/CAN market. Harder in other markets, but I'd really like to see it paired against an Ersa i-Con 1 or 2 (150W using conventional plated tips).

As per EEVBlog's statement of using the lowest temp possible temp POV, I get where he's coming from. Unfortunately however, it's more important to have the temp set where the joint is made properly in 1 -2 seconds without damaging either the component or board IME (minimal dwell time).

For example, the 600F/316C for low temp cases, 700F/371C for the vast majority of soldering cases, and 800F/427C for the really high demand stuff was commonplace in lead-based processes for this purpose. And the fact that 315C, 325C, and 350C are the standards I've seen for lead-free alloys, this still seems to be the case (though 350C seems to be the most common).

Either way, the set temps are at least 100C above the alloy's melting point (i.e. 183C for 63/37 or 217C for SAC305).

Bit of a side note, I'd rather see metric sizing than imperial for tip labels as I find it easier to picture 2.4mm than 3/32".

[Bud]

Found another Pace review, this one blows the doors off the Hakko.

When I become the President of the Internet I will be putting people in jail for making unboxing videos. It is hard to find anything more stupid then wasting digital content space this way. In this case it was 18 minutes of unboxing and 4 minutes of review.

[PACE-Worldwide]

 

Found another Pace review, this one blows the doors off the Hakko.

When I become the President of the Internet I will be putting people in jail for making unboxing videos. It is hard to find anything more stupid then wasting digital content space this way. In this case it was 18 minutes of unboxing and 4 minutes of review.

  !!!

[Alex Eisenhut]

I'd like to judge for myself, my unit has been paid since three months up here in Montreal.

When are units heading up here?

[PACE-Worldwide]

I'd like to judge for myself, my unit has been paid since three months up here in Montreal.

When are units heading up here?

Which distributor did you buy from?

[Cliff Matthews]

Found another Pace review, this one blows the doors off the Hakko.

When I become the President of the Internet I will be putting people in jail for making unboxing videos..

Novice YouTubers often take bad user reviews personally and have to start somewhere..   
(not everyone's a Teflon like Dave IMHO, most EE's and tech's are introverted and camera-shy - we take what we can get..)

[Alex Eisenhut]

Which distributor did you buy from?

Accessotronik.

TIA!

[PACE-Worldwide]

Which distributor did you buy from?

Accessotronik.

TIA!

Ahhh. Accessotronik is a really fantastic distributor for PACE, knowledgeable about PACE products and technology. They teach IPC 7711/7721 using PACE equipment exclusively. They're probably the best Distributor we have in Canada. I doubt serious it's their fault, probably a delay on our side as we're playing catch up with all the orders. Several key distributors have ordered hundreds of ADS stations and thousands of Tips since production restarted in early June, which has bogged us down. I'll check it out and get back to you!

Aaron

[Bud]

Which distributor did you buy from?

Accessotronik.

TIA!

Dont they claim they have it in stock? I checked just yesterday.

[PACE-Worldwide]

Dont they claim they have it in stock? I checked just yesterday.

Hmmm ... I'll check it out with the owner and see if it somehow slipped through the cracks.

[Bud]

Ahhh. Accessotronik is a really fantastic distributor for PACE, knowledgeable about PACE products and technology. They teach IPC 7711/7721 using PACE equipment exclusively. They're probably the best Distributor we have in Canada.

Then they better educate themselves on Customer Service. My experience with them was rough. Can you imagine placing a WEB order, waiting several days , no order shipping, no nothing, sending email inquiries to only receive  "I am away at a conference and will process your order after my return" type of reply. PoS company. It is what, one man show? Do they want make sales or rub their arrogant asses in chairs at conferences.

[Alex Eisenhut]

The one with the ISB stand is "In stock soon. Order now to get in line. First come first served."

[PACE-Worldwide]

Ahhh. Accessotronik is a really fantastic distributor for PACE, knowledgeable about PACE products and technology. They teach IPC 7711/7721 using PACE equipment exclusively. They're probably the best Distributor we have in Canada.

Then they better educate themselves on Customer Service. My experience with them was rough. Can you imagine placing a WEB order, waiting several days , no order shipping, no nothing, sending email inquiries to only receive  "I am away at a conference and will process your order after my return" type of reply. PoS company. It is what, one man show? Do they want make sales or rub their arrogant asses in chairs at conferences.

This is very unusual for Accessotronik. They have at least 10 employees, 2 locations and people on the road throughout Canada. Likely a fluke from my experience.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

What Dave says is true, whenever I swap tips in my SL2020 I often have to adjust rotation a bit further left or right.

[PACE-Worldwide]

The one with the ISB stand is "In stock soon. Order now to get in line. First come first served."

Alex,

I just contacted the owner and he will take care of it. Again, I suspect this more of a PACE issue as the ADS200 with ISB Tool Stands were the last items to be cleared for shipment in June. Expect a call or contact from a Accessotronik Representative named Fred Gravel tomorrow.

Thanks for your patience (darn, I hate having to say this so much!)

Aaron

[EEVblog]

As per EEVBlog's statement of using the lowest temp possible temp POV, I get where he's coming from. Unfortunately however, it's more important to have the temp set where the joint is made properly in 1 -2 seconds without damaging either the component or board IME (minimal dwell time).

I'm not suggesting that You turn down the temp and sacrifice the quality of the joint, I thought that was obvious? (maybe not it seems)

[EEVblog]

Dave's stated premise was that you should solder at the lowest temperature possible. This is not exactly correct. You should solder at a temperature no higher than you can safely and consistently control the process.

I did not imply that you should turn down the temperature such that it sacrifices soldering quality, I thought that was obvious?

[labjr]

If the solder isn't melting at the set temperature, then isn't the tip temperature lower when it's under load?

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

I would say yes...