Pace ADS200 soldering station

[alank2]

It allows them to swap out the EEPROM or perhaps uC.

[labjr]

One of the 8 pin chips, U6 appears to be a 93C46 serial EEPROM. It's soldered in, so I don't imagine it holds the main firmware, as you wouldn't be able to swap it in the field.

[Cliff Matthews]

That's for user settings, so the PLCC beside it is uC with firmware inside. On another note, the cap is a good KMG brand 105c and oddly enough, the 7805's heat-sink is fastened by a beefy slot-screw and star-lock washer. They obviously build these like tanks! *Using the ULN2003a as a display driver seems like using sledge when a framing hammer would suffice.. and could this be 4oz. copper? It looks like a PCB thick enough to withstand hammer-like button presses of some big Navy Seal. Again, lots of room to whittle down BOM costs and still achieve pro-sumer grade and super easy to repair. I like it.

[PA4TIM]

It can be cheaper to use components you already use. If they make this in larger numbers they get a better price and lower the cost for the whole range. And maybe now  they can use the same tools etc .

Pace has a good name in the professional world, I think they are just careful not to damage that by producing junk.  I think many companies who have the big Pace stations also have a need for cheaper and/or simpeler stations but a decent quality. This way they keep the competition out and maybe have a way to reach new customers that have potential for their big toys.

[Cliff Matthews]

Hey! Our cool flying Dutchman (with fancy shop goggles) passes 1000 posts! Congrats!
When I first saw your custom headgear, I knew I had to subscribe to your channel.. and a mighty fine shop too! 

[labjr]

That's for user settings, so the PLCC beside it is uC with firmware inside. On another note, the cap is a good KMG brand 105c and oddly enough, the 7805's heat-sink is fastened by a beefy slot-screw and star-lock washer. They obviously build these like tanks! *Using the ULN2003a as a display driver seems like using sledge when a framing hammer would suffice.. and could this be 4oz. copper? It looks like a PCB thick enough to withstand hammer-like button presses of some big Navy Seal. Again, lots of room to whittle down BOM costs and still achieve pro-sumer grade and super easy to repair. I like it.

Thanks for pointing out all the nice features. Simple but rugged. I don't need an OLED screen. It's not a TV. To be honest, I don't really need hot-swappable tips, but wanted the quick recovery of integrated heater & thermocouple in the tip. I look forward to getting something that's built like a brick $#!t house. That's the way tools should be. 

[dolivas27]

Ok back to testing the unit out this evening and I have figured out why the unit went to 350 yesterday and would not respond until I powered the unit off and then back on.

Here is what the manual states but for me it does not go back up after the sponge is touched or using the temperature up and down buttons. I guess yesterday when I started to wick I was at the 30-minute mark and the unit went into auto setback.

Automatic Setback Timer

7. The Digital Display now shows the stored Automatic Setback time as "S-X" (x=0
thru 9). Time is shown as tens of minutes (e.g., "S-3" equals 30 minutes). A display
of "S-0" indicates that Setback is disabled. Choose one of the following:
• Press and release the Program Key ( ) to keep the currently stored
Temperature Setback time.
• Adjust the stored Temperature Setback value using keypad. ( )
• Press and release the Program Key ( ) to proceed to the next step.

What is Temperature Setback? To preserve tip life and save energy, the system can be programmed to
automatically set its Tip Temperature to a lower set point (adjustable during step 14) after a selectable period of
inactivity ( factory setting of 30 minutes). As received from the factory, this feature is enabled at 30 minutes and
temperature of 177°C (350°F). There are 3 ways to exit Temperature Setback; pressing the Scroll Up or Scroll
Down keys ( ), flipping the power switch off then on again, or holding the tip against a damp sponge. Upon
exit of the Temperature Setback, the unit will resume normal operations and the handpiece heat back up to the
Set Temperature.

I did not have time today to contact Aaron, but I did just send him a message to see where I go from here.

I should have waited for the ISB stand / kit me personally I think it is a must have but I just couldn’t wait. Once the stand is available I will be ordering it.

If anyone has the unit can you check to see if after 30 minutes of idle time the unit goes in to setback and you can bring it back by touching the sponge.

Sorry but for now I have to go back to my JBC I have work to get done.

Thanks,
Dean 

[MacMeter]

Quick question regarding set back temp. I see the Pace comes with the set back temp set to 350 F. Obviously just below the melting point of 60/40 lead solder. But I’m wondering, since these new style tips come back up to desired set temp very quickly, would setting the set back temp even LOWER, potentially add even more life to the tip? For example, choose 100 F Instead, small trade off in time, seconds perhaps. Would only be logical if temps even lower then 350 F, actually do increase tip life longevity. THANKS.

[dolivas27]

Quick question regarding set back temp. I see the Pace comes with the set back temp set to 350 F. Obviously just below the melting point of 60/40 lead solder. But I’m wondering, since these new style tips come back up to desired set temp very quickly, would setting the set back temp even LOWER, potentially add even more life to the tip? For example, choose 100 F Instead, small trade off in time, seconds perhaps. Would only be logical if temps even lower then 350 F, actually do increase tip life longevity. THANKS.

That has been discussed earlier in the thread see post #39 and Pace is changing the firmware to allow this.

[Cliff Matthews]

Quick question regarding set back temp. I see the Pace comes with the set back temp set to 350 F. Obviously just below the melting point of 60/40 lead solder. But I’m wondering, since these new style tips come back up to desired set temp very quickly, would setting the set back temp even LOWER, potentially add even more life to the tip? For example, choose 100 F Instead, small trade off in time, seconds perhaps. Would only be logical if temps even lower then 350 F, actually do increase tip life longevity. THANKS.

On the other hand, thermal expansion coefficients of the copper core and iron tip cladding are unequal, so tip life may be much shorter with larger swings in temp. (at least, this document shows it). So is there a physicist in the house?

IMO, software setback will be just below solder-melt temp to stop the solders corrosive action on the tip. I doubt they would even allow swings down to 100C if they're going uphold a reputation - See link: https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/accessories/instantsetback-cubby

[labjr]

Target #1 could be that approx. 150VA split-bobbin transformer (I love it, but it's gotta be over $50 per 1000).

Why don't they use a toroidal transformer? I found this online, literally first result from Google: http://www.acdcshop.gr/toroidalmainstransformer150w2302x17v-p-8789_en.html

This is cheaper than even AliExpress price.

But still, the transformer price can be further lowered by using SMPS, but I doubt the total price will drop. If the iron tip is designed for AC operation (like some JBC), you need an inverter to drive AC from SMPS DC output, that increases cost.

Therefore, I think the overall cheapest solution would be using a toroidal mains transformer.

Pretty sure some older Pace models used toroids. Probably depends what they can source.  Keep in mind. They probably have to be certified, etc. They're not building a DIY project.  I wouldn't use a switching supply regardless.

[labjr]

IMO, software setback will be just below solder-melt temp to stop the solders corrosive action on the tip. I doubt they would even allow swings down to 100C if they're going uphold a reputation - See link: https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/accessories/instantsetback-cubby

There is probably a point of diminishing returns after you get below the melting point.

[MacMeter]

Quick question regarding set back temp. I see the Pace comes with the set back temp set to 350 F. Obviously just below the melting point of 60/40 lead solder. But I’m wondering, since these new style tips come back up to desired set temp very quickly, would setting the set back temp even LOWER, potentially add even more life to the tip? For example, choose 100 F Instead, small trade off in time, seconds perhaps. Would only be logical if temps even lower then 350 F, actually do increase tip life longevity. THANKS.

On the other hand, thermal expansion coefficients of the copper core and iron tip cladding are unequal, so tip life may be much shorter with larger swings in temp. (at least, this document shows it). So is there a physicist in the house?

IMO, software setback will be just below solder-melt temp to stop the solders corrosive action on the tip. I doubt they would even allow swings down to 100C if they're going uphold a reputation - See link: https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/accessories/instantsetback-cubby

Thanks, it was more of a theoretical question, not a feature request, which you got! I have an iron that can be set as low as 50F. and then wondered, what would an ideal low temp be, if speed of recovery were not a factor. Interesting point about the potential downside of using larger temperature swings, though I have no clue, hence my question.

[labjr]

I heard that vacuum tubes in radio station equipment back in the day, lasted far longer(many years) by leaving it constantly powered on than when they hot-cold cycled it. Far less failures.

[Elasia]

What you are looking for is thermal shock.  They are changing the firmware to allow the lowest user set able set point to be the same as the ISB temp of 350F/177C and thats about it.  Once you have solidified/frozen the molecules in place thats all you need to pro long your tip life.. if you start dropping down lower you start causing more than needed transition strain/stress between the differing metal layers which can induce thermal cracking and the larger the cracks just like a road.. the bigger the pot holes get eventually

Edit: there are other alloys like Tin/Bismuth that transition at 138C but thats rarer in actual use i think.. everything else is getting more into rohs alloys that are 220Cs+ so 350F/177C is a good minimum number to work with

[MacMeter]

What you are looking for is thermal shock.  They are changing the firmware to allow the lowest user set able set point to be the same as the ISB temp of 350F/177C and thats about it.  Once you have solidified/frozen the molecules in place thats all you need to pro long your tip life.. if you start dropping down lower you start causing more than needed transition strain/stress between the differing metal layers which can induce thermal cracking and the larger the cracks just like a road.. the bigger the pot holes get eventually

Edit: there are other alloys like Tin/Bismuth that transition at 138C but thats rarer in actual use i think.. everything else is getting more into rohs alloys that are 220Cs+ so 350F/177C is a good minimum number to work with

THANKS, seems logical, Cliff was on the right path. I’ll stick with 350F for my set back temp. Learn something new here almost daily!

SORRY, hate to sidetrack threads, but this seemed “almost” on topic.

[Alex Eisenhut]

Ok the first tip I installed gave me the CHP error, so I pulled the tip and tried to reinsert it but could not get it to seat with the little tip tool they provided.

I'm kind of disconcerted by this. I wonder if I should cancel my order.

[jagw]

Ok back to testing the unit out this evening and I have figured out why the unit went to 350 yesterday and would not respond until I powered the unit off and then back on.

Here is what the manual states but for me it does not go back up after the sponge is touched or using the temperature up and down buttons. I guess yesterday when I started to wick I was at the 30-minute mark and the unit went into auto setback.


I did not have time today to contact Aaron, but I did just send him a message to see where I go from here.

I should have waited for the ISB stand / kit me personally I think it is a must have but I just couldn’t wait. Once the stand is available I will be ordering it.

If anyone has the unit can you check to see if after 30 minutes of idle time the unit goes in to setback and you can bring it back by touching the sponge.

Sorry but for now I have to go back to my JBC I have work to get done.

Thanks,
Dean

I also have one of the first units.  No problems at all with my tips or handle.  The iron works great and the build quality appears excellent.

I do however have the same issue with the iron not sensing usage to avoid always triggering setback.  Also when going into setback it also does not reset by touching the sponge.  It does reset with the arrow key though.   I thought all this should work without the ISB stand.

When my unit is first turned on, the firmware version of 1-0 flashes up.  I see the users manual is already referenced to version 1-2.  I wonder if these issues are already resolved in 1-2?

[Elasia]

Ok the first tip I installed gave me the CHP error, so I pulled the tip and tried to reinsert it but could not get it to seat with the little tip tool they provided.

I'm kind of disconcerted by this. I wonder if I should cancel my order.

A pace rep reads this forum and actively engages folks, considering they are fast to respond to their initial issues if prompted i wouldnt worry about it.  The rubber o ring and the end of the tip not being compressed in on some is the only thing ive seen to give me pause but if it fouls up im sure they would send parts or flip the entire piece for dissection

jaqw, if you msg arron they will send you an updated chip if need be

[tooki]

I also have one of the first units.  No problems at all with my tips or handle.  The iron works great and the build quality appears excellent.

I do however have the same issue with the iron not sensing usage to avoid always triggering setback.  Also when going into setback it also does not reset by touching the sponge.  It does reset with the arrow key though.   I thought all this should work without the ISB stand.

I have an Ersa i-Con nano, which uses the same method for determining usage to avoid setback. The situation that gets annoying on occasion is when it’s begun to enter setback (so it’s expecting a temp drop), and then a joint only needs a small amount of heat, so it just thinks it’s still dropping to setback. Plunging it into the brass wool sometimes is enough to wake it up, but usually it’s easier to just press a button. (The “big” i-Con models use an accelerometer in the handle to determine disuse, which is probably more reliable.)

[Shock]

Ok so the problem with my unit is for sure the handle and could have been caused by the quality control problem on the tips not being fully assembled.
Pace will need to address the tip assembly problems.

They have already discovered a batch issue in some tips, so may have lead to unexpected problems and could be resolved already. As long as Pace knows about it, to know what to look for when testing.

I do however have the same issue with the iron not sensing usage to avoid always triggering setback.  Also when going into setback it also does not reset by touching the sponge.  It does reset with the arrow key though.   I thought all this should work without the ISB stand.

Aaron from Pace advised:

"The default setting is the unit will automatically “set back” the temperature to 350°F after 30 minutes of inactivity, then shut off the power to the TD-200 Handpiece 60 minutes after it goes into SetBack."

"The built-in Setback works like this: If you have the Setback Timer set for 60 minutes, the system senses that the unit is not in use and starts a clock timer that lowers the temperature after it senses no thermal load or activity for 60 minutes. It will react and reset the timer if it senses more than 10° or 15°F variance. For example, if you touch the sponge it drops the temp significantly and resets the timer to 60 minutes again."

"The unit detects thermal loads very quickly, but this depends upon the shape and mass of the tip. Generally, lower mass tips detect a load faster than the high-mass tips, but both are still sensing temperature change within 1 second."

Should be easy to test, if it doesn't come out of setback after holding it on a moist sponge for a second or two, likely either the station has switched off the handle or you have a setting problem.

When my unit is first turned on, the firmware version of 1-0 flashes up.  I see the users manual is already referenced to version 1-2.  I wonder if these issues are already resolved in 1-2?

The only change in 1.2 as far as we are aware was to allow the temp (and presets) to be set as low as 350°F/177°C. This would allow you to use a preset as a setback (if you wished).

As of a week ago there were only 100 in stock or customers hands, the rest were for their sales channel. Pace obviously will resolve further problems as they arise since it's early days still. I'd expect them to tweak the firmware until everything is spot on.

From what we have seen so far no reason not to get stuck in and start using it. Still waiting for mine, it's looking like I'll be in the next batch so will have to wait.

[jagw]

Should be easy to test, if it doesn't come out of setback after holding it on a moist sponge for a second or two, likely either the station has switched off the handle or you have a setting problem.

From what we have seen so far no reason not to get stuck in and start using it. Still waiting for mine, it's looking like I'll be in the next batch so will have to wait.

I have tested it repeatedly.  I can see the display drop 10-15 degrees on the wet sponge, yet no wake-up.
I am using the iron in the meantime.   I will wait a bit and see if any other issues arise before requesting an update though.

[Shock]

I have tested it repeatedly.  I can see the display drop 10-15 degrees on the wet sponge, yet no wake-up. I am using the iron in the meantime.   I will wait a bit and see if any other issues arise before requesting an update though.

Might pay to go through your station and copy down the settings you are using along with the tip part number and see if someone here can replicate it.

[Shock]

Mikes update on his initial tip problems, looks like all has been resolved.

[Shock]

Pace ADS200 operation manual is online now.

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