Pace ADS200 soldering station

[EEVblog]

So very curious how Dave likes this new unit!

I thought Dave said in #4 it didn't fit his criteria (something about leading horses to water comes to mind..)
I guess I'm going too just piss my wife off and buy one.

It didn't fit my original requirement of a $100 station shootout.

I'ts not fair to compare apples an oranges. In this case a $100 traditional tip station vs a $200+ fast heat integrated tip station.
This ADS200 would compare with the Hakko FX951 etc

[Monkeh]

So very curious how Dave likes this new unit!

I thought Dave said in #4 it didn't fit his criteria (something about leading horses to water comes to mind..)
I guess I'm going too just piss my wife off and buy one.

It didn't fit my original requirement of a $100 station shootout.

I'ts not fair to compare apples an oranges. In this case a $100 traditional tip station vs a $200+ fast heat integrated tip station.
This ADS200 would compare with the Hakko FX951 etc

I believe I already said in that review thread, the ADS200 should be compared to the FX951, the Metcal PS900 or MFR series, the Thermaltronics equivalent (TMT-2000S and EB-2000S), and so forth.

Being $250-350 a throw, that's sadly an expensive shootout.

[labjr]

I think everything will be integrated tip cartridges eventually. Just gonna take a couple more product cycles. Because it seems like they cost peanuts to make now. 

That portable TS100 iron is $50 or even less on a deal including cartridge. Just add a powered base unit and a stand to a similar design. Could be less than $100.

 

[EEVblog]

Being $250-350 a throw, that's sadly an expensive shootout.

More in AUD.
I'd get back maybe $50 in adsense revenue if I'm lucky.

[KL27x]

I think everything will be integrated tip cartridges eventually. Just gonna take a couple more product cycles. Because it seems like they cost peanuts to make now. 

That portable TS100 iron is $50 or even less on a deal including cartridge. Just add a powered base unit and a stand to a similar design. Could be less than $100.

I don't believe this is the case. There are inherent drawbacks and limited pros for cartridge tips. There is always room for the old school design.

The simple fact that the cartridge tips rely on an electromechanical spring contact connection for power is a bit of a drawback for a tool that is designed to make solder connections.
The fact that is that as parts get smaller and smaller, oftentimes it is more efficient to use tips that are bigger. Thermal mass vs super fast response time is always going to have a place.
Being slightly better at specific things at the cost of increased complexity and operational costs is not necessarily a benefit to an application or user who is not doing those specific things.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The thing I hear about Metcal sometimes is the "I can desolder this resistor and this heatsink with the same tip." Well, in any repair, the soldering part is not the time-consuming or difficult part. In any production setup, you can have as many different irons and tips and stations and workers as you want to produce things efficiently. There's maybe one dude on the planet that is brilliant enough to decide what things need to be desoldered and replaced on the fly to where this amazing response time is going to make a gnat's ass worth of difference.

[glarsson]

The simple fact that the cartridge tips rely on an electromechanical spring contact connection for power is a bit of a drawback for a tool that is designed to make solder connections.

Most soldering irons rely on electromechanical spring contact connections between the handle and the control unit/power supply. Why is the springs connecting a cartridge a problem?

[KL27x]

Well, here are two cases

Weller mini pencil has a 3mm stereo jack connector that mates to in the middle of the handle. The front part of the handle is part of the tip. To the connector has to handle lateral forces, and it bends around in there with some play. And they do wear out.

I have torn a T12 tip from insertions/removal. Ripped the contacts off the tip.

But you are right. Even sticking the plug into the mains outlet is relying on a spring contact. So my comment is pretty stupid.

[glarsson]

Weller mini pencil has a 3mm stereo jack connector that mates to in the middle of the handle. The front part of the handle is part of the tip. To the connector has to handle lateral forces, and it bends around in there with some play. And they do wear out.

The 3 mm "headphone" jack is a terrible design and a terrible choice for this application.

I have torn a T12 tip from insertions/removal. Ripped the contacts off the tip.

That is a fail of the implementation, not of the concept.

[KL27x]

Is this legit, maybe? 
1. You change a tip way more many times than plug/unplug an iron. No matter how many times you change the tip on a 936, you won't wear out an electrical connection.
2. The tip undergoes some forces on it, regularly, rather than just hanging in a socket.

[labjr]

In the 70's my dad built ham radios with one of those irons that had a screw to hold the tip in and used an ash tray for a stand. He used a Bic lighter to heat shrink connections. He had another iron with a wooden handle that looked like a branding iron. And a Weller soldering gun with the trigger. I inherited one of those from this old timer who was the best TV technician I ever knew.

I started using Unger irons in the 80's and 90's that had screw-on tips. I built some test equipment with them.

When I got a Weller station, I had to start wearing a seat belt.

The new irons are like having a turbo charged race car. The need for speed. Gotta have it.

Fuel injection systems are more complex. Would you go back to a carburetor?

[Cliff Matthews]

..No matter how many times you change the tip on a 936, you won't wear out an electrical connection.

Ok, but what about thermal transfer? (see DaveCad in the latest video). When I receive my ADS200, I will post some close-up shots on the interior of the new aluminum pencil handle to allow others to give some assessment of electrical contact strength.

[helius]

1. You change a tip way more many times than plug/unplug an iron. No matter how many times you change the tip on a 936, you won't wear out an electrical connection.
2. The tip undergoes some forces on it, regularly, rather than just hanging in a socket.

I think those factors weigh against the 936 style, because you are more likely to crack the ceramic heater than to damage a well-designed coaxial plug-in system. Some connectors (TT and TRS) can be rated for millions of insertions; even if the insertions on a JBC or Metcal are only 10,000 that's way more than the number of cycles it takes to break a 936 heater.

[labjr]

Has anyone reported problems with the hand-piece of the Pace WJS-100 station?  That's also 120W and been out for 4-5 years. Doesn't seem real popular though, from what I can tell by browsing.

[KL27x]

Some connectors (TT and TRS) can be rated for millions of insertions

Most common use for this style of connector is to transit pre-amplified audio signals.

I think every cartridge style station has instructions in the manual to the effect "if display does not show X, remove and reinsert the cartridge." Or it could say, if it don't work, jiggle it. They do NOT suggest you unplug and reinsert the mains socket or the iron cord.

The new irons are like having a turbo charged race car. The need for speed. Gotta have it.

If I want to win a race, I want a race car, yeah. If I want to get to work, I can drive a Honda. If I want to move tons of merchandise at a time, I would probably use trailer trucks.

Fuel injection systems are more complex. Would you go back to a carburetor?

In this case, no. The problem with carbs is they can be clogged by fuel impurities, and you have to drain the float bowls before storing for any length of time. Cleaning them is a bitch, and getting to them likely an even bigger bitch.

[johan450]

Contacted Desab, the swedish distributor for a quote.

3.190 SEK(390$~)+VAT for the version with the ISB holder, Tips go for roughly 20$.
Might as well get the CD-2BE I use at work at that price, anyone found them in eu for a more resonable price? Mainly looking for the version with the ISB holder(P/N 8007-0581 230).

[Cliff Matthews]

Contacted Desab, the swedish distributor for a quote.

3.190 SEK(390$~)+VAT for the version with the ISB holder, Tips go for roughly 20$.
Might as well get the CD-2BE I use at work at that price, anyone found them in eu for a more resonable price? Mainly looking for the version with the ISB holder(P/N 8007-0581 230).

Sad observing greed at that level, but smile taxes pay for socialism (ha, I live in Canada.. croak!)
$219 at TEquipment. Most tips are $12 to $16 and the ISB would likely be a $10 external hack.
https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/ADS200-8007-0578/Soldering-Stations/
When mine arrives, this 120w $17 1/4inch "get it done son" chisel will be my daily runner (I think..)

 
 

[labjr]

I'm glad I live in USA when I see what everything costs in the EU. Though nice train system in France.

I hope there will be a EEVblog discount from TEquipment. Maybe $199 or less. Of course, provided it gets a good review.

[dolivas27]

I already own a JBC system but I need a second station and I getting ready to order Hakko FM203-DP was going to order anther JBC but the tip cost is kill me I have about 10 different tips I use and to be honest the JBC is good but I want to try another system.

What do you guys think should I get this Pace system instead? I have a cart all set at TEquipment but I really wanted the ISB holder but after talking to Pace today it will not be here until May not even in productions yet. I did get the full manual which is a draft as the final is not even completed yet.

Need to order it before midnight eastern time to get the 25% off the Hakko.  If I order the Hakko I will get the Mini Parallel Remover and the Micro Soldering Iron Kit the tips are just so damn cheap for the Hakko most of the one's I want are under $10 and the others are $16

Let me know what you think I have never owned a Hakko.

I have had JBC, Weller, Pace, Metcal, Edsyn the JBC is nice but I hate the cost and I don't think the tips stay wet enough.

Let me know your thoughts.......

[plazma]

JBC CD-1D w/T245 owner here and hate it. Tips are quickly oxidizing garbage, just a few sec and it is dark and solder wire rolls back on itself and not sticking to the tip.

My tips have corroded too.

We had oxidation problems at work. The reason was using steel wool which was suplied with the JBC unit. We changed to brass wool and the tips lasted long again.

[labjr]

I already own a JBC system but I need a second station and I getting ready to order Hakko FM203-DP was going to order anther JBC but the tip cost is kill me I have about 10 different tips I use and to be honest the JBC is good but I want to try another system.

What do you guys think should I get this Pace system instead? I have a cart all set at TEquipment but I really wanted the ISB holder but after talking to Pace today it will not be here until May not even in productions yet. I did get the full manual which is a draft as the final is not even completed yet.

Need to order it before midnight eastern time to get the 25% off the Hakko.  If I order the Hakko I will get the Mini Parallel Remover and the Micro Soldering Iron Kit the tips are just so damn cheap for the Hakko most of the one's I want are under $10 and the others are $16

Let me know what you think I have never owned a Hakko.

I have had JBC, Weller, Pace, Metcal, Edsyn the JBC is nice but I hate the cost and I don't think the tips stay wet enough.

Let me know your thoughts.......

I've only used Weller so I have no opinion about the performance or tip life of Hakko, Pace or JBC. However, from what I've read, Pace seems to have better thermal performance at than Hakko FX-951. Not sure if it's the same as the FM-203.

If you've used Pace and like the ergonomics, performance and tip life, you can get two separate 120w Pace stations for the cost of the FM-203. I'm wondering what the cost will be for Pace with the setback stand. I don't think they've even established a price yet?

[dolivas27]

From what I can find it looks like the unit with the ISB holder will probably be around $299

Ya that is one concern I have with the Hakko I work on a lot of receivers and HDMI boards and I am wondering if the Hakko will handle it.

The Hakko FM203-DP is only going to cost me $409.00 delivered that's with two irons seams like a excellent price. I guess I could always purchase it and if I don't like it sell it I should be able to break even.

The other positive with the Hakko is the tips selection I am sure Pace will add more over time and I think this line is going to grow.

Maybe I should just purchase both then I will know for sure which is better. HAHAHAHA LOL   

[labjr]

I think the FM-203 will put out up to 140W. So two 70w irons or one 140W iron. When one particular( I forget which) hand-piece or tweezer with a high mass tip is plugged into the left port, it doesn't allow the other iron to operate simultaneously. But I'd rather have two separate systems.

With the Pace, I'd probably try to fabricate some kind of setback switch if it's $60 extra. Maybe something a simple as a microswitch.

[dolivas27]

I think the FM-203 will put out up to 140W. So two 70w irons or one 140W iron. When one particular( I forget which) hand-piece or tweezer with a high mass tip is plugged into the left port, it doesn't allow the other iron to operate simultaneously. But I'd rather have two separate systems.

So if it was you you would purchase two single channel stations?

Ya I am looking at the limitations of the dual unit and think you might be right. I do want some tweezers but I don't have to have them right now and it looks like they are coming for the Pace unit.

I might just order the Pace unit and give it a go if I find I like it I will order a second one when the ISB holder is available.

Hmmmm what to do??  I hate decision like this 

[labjr]

So you've used Pace before? How did you like the thermal performance? Tip quality, longevity?

[dolivas27]

So you've used Pace before? How did you like the thermal performance? Tip quality, longevity?

From what I remember there were excellent at the time I think the unit I used to have was the Pace ST 45 with the PS-90 Iron

I have not used there new equipment.