Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera review

[mrflibble]

Agreed - I am level II and there's just NO WAY you'd "learn by yourself"....bad advice there.  Training supplied at Level II and above is not just about how the camera works (That tends to end at level 1)....most of it is advanced theory on mathematical equations and the whole physics of heat transference and behavior.  I say again - you will NOT pick this up from just "using" a thermal camera. 

Out of interest (physics person here), what cool advanced theory on mathematical equations does one learn when levelling up to level II or III Thermomancer?

[mikeselectricstuff]

Mike, do you have any experience with Flir I3? How would you compare them? Does the I3 has better macro resolution out of the box? They are in the same price range.

The i3 has been discontinued, the E4 is its replacement. The optics (and probably the sensor) are largely the same, but the E4 has the secondary visual camera for outline overlay.

Sorry - not quite true......the ix-series has NOT been discontinued...it is being sold alongside the new Ex-Series.

(It has however been removed from the catalog, so it's future is probably "uncertain" at best)

I'm sure any "Not discontinued" status is only to allow dealers to clear old i3 stock, as even an unhacked E4 is much better value than the i3. 

[mikeselectricstuff]

Anything that a thermal training course would tell you, you could learn by yourself just by using a TI for a couple weeks.

Mike, would that non-user-accessible port be the same as the one in the i7?

This is not true.  I am a level III thermographier and I can tell you that most of the information I learned is not available anywhere except via training.  And the training is vastly different between sources.

Agreed - I am level II and there's just NO WAY you'd "learn by yourself"....bad advice there.  Training supplied at Level II and above is not just about how the camera works (That tends to end at level 1)....most of it is advanced theory on mathematical equations and the whole physics of heat transference and behavior.  I say again - you will NOT pick this up from just "using" a thermal camera. 

The previous recommendations about what is and what isn't an "entry-level" camera were fair...it's not tool snobbery or title-addiction.  They were valid points, but perhaps not well made.  I personally would not recommend an i-series to anyone (except very basic users - school kids perhaps).  Any decent thermographer will want an E40 or E50 minimum - if only for the ability to focus properly...and it's far more likely that they'll not be using much below a T-series.  It may be that the thermographer will have an Ex or an I series as a quick spot checker...but it's not likely to be his/her primary tool.

The Ex-series are good little tools....no doubt about that (in terms of value!), but they are not the be-all and end-all and any licensed thermographer (ie insurance-company-approved and trained beyond level 1 will most likely NOT turn up to a job with an Ex-Series or below.

I doubt Flir have any intention of targetting "Thermographers" with the Ex range - their advertising seems to mostly be aimed at electrical and building people for routine faultifinding type applications.
Perhaps one of the Thermographers here can tell us what sort of things they actually do, compared to what us mere mortals can do with their own TIC?
How do they apply this "magic" knowledge, and what is the end result. Just curious.


 

[aargee]

Sounds like a couple of "Flir" people have joined the E4 discussions...

[nowlan]

An electrician at Tafe today had a Testo unit, which had adjustable focus.
He was looking at switch boards to see if any cabling running hot.

Think it might be this one, since he said it was 10 grand. This is better picture of lesser model.

[Clint]

I want to be a 'Fourth dan Thermograher' !

Is there a reason you are a Level II or III thermographer rather than a Level 2 or 3 ?

Level I "This course covers infrared theory, heat transfer concepts, equipment operation and selection, standards compliance, image analysis and report generation."

Level II "This course covers advanced infrared theory, equipment calibration, error sources, cross-verification with contact thermometers, advanced equipment operation, use of windows and filters, assigning temperature limits and repair priorities, and quantitative report generation."

Level III "This course covers advanced topics related to developing, implementing, and managing a successful infrared inspection program. Topics include: latest applications, hardware & software, current industry standards & specifications, OSHA and NFPA safety standards, marketing and promoting an infrared inspection program, thermography as legal documentation, heat transfer analysis software, current industry certification criteria, and how to develop and implement standards-compliant written practices and procedures."

4th Dan "This course covers advanced Magic and Thermography Wizardry"

[mikeselectricstuff]

I want to be a 'Fourth dan Thermograher' !

Is there a reason you are a Level II or III thermographer rather than a Level 2 or 3 ?

Level I "This course covers infrared theory, heat transfer concepts, equipment operation and selection, standards compliance, image analysis and report generation."

Level II "This course covers advanced infrared theory, equipment calibration, error sources, cross-verification with contact thermometers, advanced equipment operation, use of windows and filters, assigning temperature limits and repair priorities, and quantitative report generation."

Level III "This course covers advanced topics related to developing, implementing, and managing a successful infrared inspection program. Topics include: latest applications, hardware & software, current industry standards & specifications, OSHA and NFPA safety standards, marketing and promoting an infrared inspection program, thermography as legal documentation, heat transfer analysis software, current industry certification criteria, and how to develop and implement standards-compliant written practices and procedures."

4th Dan "This course covers advanced Magic and Thermography Wizardry"

Ninja level - we train you to become one with your environment and become so in-tune with your own senses that you can determine temperature remotely without using any equipment at all 

[Clint]

Ninja level - we train you to become one with your environment and become so in-tune with your own senses that you can determine temperature remotely without using any equipment at all 

So ironic you can't do a Degree in Thermography !

[WarSim]

Ninja level - we train you to become one with your environment and become so in-tune with your own senses that you can determine temperature remotely without using any equipment at all 

So ironic you can't do a Degree in Thermography !

Great!  Another degree is born, complete with definitions for BA, MA and PD.   



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Mark_O]

So ironic you can't do a Degree in Thermography !

Yes, it is.  But you guys are making up for it by giving the newcomer the 3rd degree.

[KingVidiot]

Does someone have a site (or know of one) with pictures of people and other animals taken with the E4? I work at a zoo, and I think it would be fascinating to compare images from a human, parrot, bobcat, raccoon, snake, etc.

I want to make sure the resolution is good enough to yield a decent image of these subjects. Any help on this would be great. If you have a dog or cat, and you could take a pic of yourself and the animals separately that might be good enough.

If this looks good I'm buying one immediately.  Thanks!

[csshih]

taken with my old FLIR B40..
120x120, though.


 

[codeboy2k]

Out of interest (physics person here), what cool advanced theory on mathematical equations does one learn when levelling up to level II or III Thermomancer?

I lol'ed at "level III Thermomancer"

When one of those knocks on my front door I get a saving throw

[KingVidiot]

Very nice csshih, thanks.

Hopefully the MSX of the E4 will make up for the lost resolution.

Any others?

[olsenn]

Hopefully the MSX of the E4 will make up for the lost resolution.

If the MSX doesn't, maybe the hack will

[Fraser]

Having only received my unit yesterday I have not had much time to play but the experience so far is good.

My comments on it so far:

1. Very nice to hold and operate one handed. The 'gun' shape works well.
2. Very clear display
3. Navigation pad OK but pressing the lower side is not as easy unless you use the very tip of your thumb (IMHO)
4. USB socket on top is a disaster ! It is too small and fragile looking for my liking. I have been looking for a more compact connector, possibly, right angle, with a more flexible cable. I hope to avoid passing too much leverage onto the socket mount. FLIR could have done this a lot better with larger and more robust socket. Spare leads are easily available though and I have seen a nice flexible flat cable from China that looks a good option.
6. The trigger action to capture images is excellent, but can be a bit laggy between shots....I am impatient I suppose.
7. The lack of a tripod mount or optional adapter is already niggling me. I sometimes need the camera operating hands free which can't be done with the E4 as supplied, unless it is propped up on something, and it’s then not very stable. Mike has developed a modification to the battery to incorporate a tripod mount. The battery base is pretty small though, so stability isn't great.
8. Image quality is excellent with the MSX running. It really does make images more understandable to the layperson viewing them.
9. The soft case (pouch) is, IMHO, a must have accessory. It makes carrying the E4 a breeze. It is very well constructed and the finish is good as well.


Notes:

My unit came from PASS in the UK. I was provided with a Soft case (pouch) for my E4 free of charge. It may be worth asking your supplier if they will do the same. It is worth having it. The soft case that I was given is in fact the one for the Exx range, so I suspect PASS had a few to spare. The difference between the Exx soft case and the Ex soft case is not that great. Both hold the E4 camera perfectly, but The Exx has some more space in front of the camera face (for when people attach an auxiliary lens to an Exx ?) If you look at pictures of the two cases you will see the Ex case is more 'snub nosed' than the Exx. I intend to fit auxiliary lenses to my Ex so the Exx case better suits my needs.

Only one battery is supplied. It is my habit to always buy a spare. They are $50 each in the USA so will likely be GBP50 in the UK ! Battery life is supposed to be very good at 4 hours, so there is no urgent need. The external charger for a spare battery is priced at $125.

The FLIR tools software seems OK. I was surprised that it does not include the option to save images (that have been modified) as standard formats such as jpg, TIFF and bmp etc. A major PITA for me. The free FLIR Explorer99 (March2007revision) permits me to modify images from my PM series cameras and save them as BMP. Not optimal but at least usable. I tried to access an E4 image with Explorer99(March2007). No dice, it does not recognise the .jpg file type. 

I will provide further comment when I have had more time with the unit.

Update: Soft case / Pouch datasheets added.

I just found the datsheets in the Ex and Exx series pouches.
Model: Exx Pt No. T911087 (marked on receipt and inside case (on tab) Fits my Ex like a well made glove.

[Fraser]

TRIPOD MOUNT project


To address the issue of no tripod mount or desk stand, I am looking at the possibility of using one of the better quality Golfing umbrella handle holders. With 50mm capacity they are looking like a distinct possibility. I have also looked a Velcro torch mounts for rifles as they use a nice soft and deformable silicon 'double U' shaped spacers. I will advise if I find a useable solution.

I am surprised that such an expensive unit does not have a lanyard or mounting for a wrist strap. It may survive a 2m drop, but what about if you are working up a height and drop it....like up a power pole or similar ?

Update:

I just bought a golf umbrella mount with an extra large tube designed for 'GustBuster' brand handles. Capacity is 50mm diameter but I think I will need 52mm in one direction so hopeful that it is slightly larger diameter than stated. or can be made oval with heating.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181243627573?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

If it works, I will make bench and a tripod mount versions. The same could be achieve using 50mm water pipe and an end cap, but this is quicker and easier for me.

[mikeselectricstuff]

but what about if you are working up a height and drop it....like up a power pole or similar ?

maybe the thinking is that with a TIC,  you don't need to go up the pole 

[csshih]

Very nice csshih, thanks.

Hopefully the MSX of the E4 will make up for the lost resolution.

Any others?

I don't have pre-hack pictures, but MSX does definitely help with the low resolution.



though it does look funny at times.



without MSX

[KingVidiot]

Thanks everyone!

I'm ordering my E4 right away.

This is a very informative, entertaining, and responsive forum. That's hard to find these days. 

[Fraser]

FOCUS tool.

Another thread dealing with the teardown contains the STL file for a lens focus adjustment tool. The work was done by Taucher, so all credit to him. The tool enables adjustment of the lens for close-up working.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg328518/#msg328518

As I do not own a 3D printer, I ordered the 3D print from this UK company:

http://uk-3d.com/instant-quote/

The cost was GBP3 + GBP4.99 for setup and post. I ordered two of the parts and the cost was  GBP10.99 delivered.

My thanks to Taucher for doing the hard part for me.

UPDATE:  I have just received a quote from another UK 3D printing company of GBP3 each + postage. They are going to print one for me asap.

www.LuneValley3D.co.uk

I shall advise the results of the 3D printing that I have commissioned when the parts arrive, hopefully next week.

[Fraser]

Exx Case/Pouch

Pictures of the Exx (yes Exx) case mentioned in my earlier post.

Note the added room in front of the my E4's lens. The Ex case is unlikely to have this.

[csshih]

Thanks everyone!

I'm ordering my E4 right away.

This is a very informative, entertaining, and responsive forum. That's hard to find these days. 

do post whatever cool pictures you get!

[Fraser]

LENS protection / thermal window material


In case this information is useful to someone else:

A question was asked in another thread regarding thermally transmissive 'window' materials.

FLIR disposable lens protectors for thermal cameras use the 12 or 25 micron shrink wrap plastic called Polyolefin, that is commonly found as the WRAPPER on CD cases.

I bought a large roll of the plastic very cheaply. IIRC around GBP5 for 1mx20m.

Additional info added:

I purchased 25 micron Polyolefin from the following company and it works very well. I just tried a piece in front of my E4 and the camera sees through it fine.

Bee Beautiful .....www.beebeautiful.org.uk

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20mtrs-Polyolefin-Shrink-Wrap-Film-25-micron-450mm-/350800488552?pt=UK_Packaging_Materials&hash=item51ad56a868#ht_1387wt_1018

[Fraser]

I just asked a FLIR rep why the E4 does not have a tripod socket ?

The answer...... what for it........ "its a handheld device"

So there you go. FLIR believe that the E series is ONLY to be used in your hand ,and that no other possibilities exist.

Yet the Exx series has such a mount option. Go figure ?