What Oscilloscope buy?

[montcler]

Hello all,

After so many years with my old Hameg 1507-3 testing my hobbies, and repairing etc ...
I decided to buy a digital one, have never had one in my hands, and really have very many things along these days have gone reading in the forums
and meaning, characteristics of everything in this new world of digital oscilloscope. (Memory depth, sampling rate, update rate waveforms / s) etc ...
And I'm really saturated.
I would like that professionals madness every day with these teams guiasesis me into buying these models that I think are good.

I show you what I think (all of 200MHZ):

1 - DSOX3024T Keysight
2 - Yokogawa DLM2022
3 - 3024 LeCroy WaveSurfer
4 - Tektronix MDO3024
5 - Rigol DS4024

Thank you.

[JackP]

May I ask your budget?

[montcler]

Hello,

Yes, I would like to not exceed the 4K6€

Thx.

[kripton2035]

I really like the Tek MDO3000 and you have huge deals actually until 30th septembre : the 3ghz SA and all decoders for free ...
but sorry I don't have one, and don't have the budget to buy one so can't argue about it more than that !

[tautech]

Hello,

Yes, I would like to not exceed the 4K6€

Thx.

If we knew your location we could make local for you recommendations.

You can select a country flag for your profile. 

[montcler]

Thanks Kripton2035, but it is very expensive for
my budget.
At the moment the Keysight offering evey all free licenses until end of October.

I am from Spain.

Thx.

[hayatepilot]

Dave did a Review of the Agilent 3000 X Series:



I'm sure you can do a lot worse than this. 

Greetings

[montcler]

Dave also said that in one of the previews, I seemed to understand that there are many functions Tektronix working for software and Keysight for Hardware .

Greetings

[kripton2035]

Quote from: montcler on Today at 19:06:56

Thanks Kripton2035, but it is very expensive for
my budget.
At the moment the Keysight offering evey all free licenses until end of October.

I am from Spain.

Thx.

the MDO3024 is 4250€+VAT at farnell so it's around your budget (but a little higher I assume...)
the Keysight DSOX3024 is 4199€ +VAT at farnell so the two scopes are quite identical
with the tek you get a 3ghz spectrum analyzer too !

[Groucho2005]

Hello,

Yes, I would like to not exceed the 4K6€

Thx.

With that budget I would go for the Hameg (Rohde & Schwarz) HMO3000 series.
http://www.hameg.com/710.0.html?L=0

[nctnico]

Don't just check base prices but also include the cost of options. A few options can easely make a scope twice as expensive. Deals with free options or a bundle of options can be very sweet.

[Wuerstchenhund]

1 - DSOX3024T Keysight

The DSOX3000T is a good scope but also very expensive for what you get. It's also a somewhat dated hardware design (based on the DSOX3kA which came out in 2012) which has a very fast update rate but lacks in terms of memory (only 4Mpts, which is pretty low these days) and has limited FFT (64kpts only). At the moment you can get all software options for free, and a few of these aren't available on other scopes, and if you need them then the DSOX3kT is your only choice. If not then it's still a decent scope for a lot of money.

2 - Yokogawa DLM2022

Yokogawa has nice scopes, and the DLM2022 is an interesting piece of kit. However, Yokogawa is pretty expensive, even more so their support which outside Japan for scopes can be pretty spotty. Plus the DLM2022 has a pretty low sample rate (i.e. only 2.5GSa full channel), and is a quite old an old design (IIRC it came out in 2009). It shows that Yokogawa's main customers for their kit is power electronics. Plus the selection of available probes is very limited.

I wouldn't buy the DLM2022.

3 - 3024 LeCroy WaveSurfer

This is a very nice scope, and would be my recommendation unless you need one of the options only available in the DSOX3024T. It has very good scpecs (4GSa/s, 10Mpts memory), a fast update rate, a large screen, and is the only scope in your list with an UI (LeCroy MAUI) that has actually been developed for touch interface. It also has some features found in LeCroy's high end scopes like WaveScan (an analysis tool for finding glitches, runts and other signal deviations), and pretty good FFT (up to 1Mpts). It's also cheaper than the DSOX3024T.

4 - Tektronix MDO3024

Well, it's a somewhat interesting scope as it comes with a built-in spectrum analyzer (SA). However, the few times I have seen one in real life I found it was buggy and slow, and the built-in SA has pretty poor specs. I'd say if you need a all-in-one unit that does scoping and SA then this might be worth considering, but in any other case I'd give it a pass. Plus Tek's support isn't as good as it used to be 15 years ago.

5 - Rigol DS4024

Well, what should I say? It's a pretty basic scope in terms of capabilities and performance (way below the other ones on the list). It has been plagued by a lot of firmware problems of which many (but not all) have been fixed, but there are still issues with it. It comes with large memory but that's more like a tick box exercise as it can't really use the memory sensibly (and FFT is limited to something rididculously low, i.e. 16kpoints or so). Plus Rigol's support is pretty much hit and miss (more miss it seems based on the reports in this forum) and generally questionable as with most other B-brands. I wouldn't go there.

My recommendation would be the LeCroy WaveSurfer 3024, at the moment it's probably the best option in its price class unless you really need one of the few software options that at the moment are only available for the Keysight DSOX3000T. if you're in Europe then there's currently a promo where you get all software options for free as well (and even if you're outside the Europe then I'm sure LeCroy would throw them in for you).

[montcler]

Hey all,

Thanks Groucho2005 but I see very little advanced, not as formerly only talked about was true Hameg and was one of the best marks before and also wanted to switch brands.
Thanks very much  Wuerstchenhund for your opinions of all oscilloscopes, I had in mind, very interesting.

Well, I talked to Fernell Spain for the offer, and the dealer Keyseight Spain with all the free licenses in both oscilloscopes.

The MDO3024 is € 5,087.37 (VAT + Shipping costs included, Tektronix).
The DSOX3024T is € 4,580 (VAT + Shipping costs (free) included, Keysight).

The Keysight licences all free are:

DSOX3ADVMATH Advanced math measurement application
DSOX3AERO A/D trigger and decode (MIL-STD 1553/ARINC 429)
DSOX3AUDIO Audio serial trigger and analysis (I²S)
DSOX3AUTO Automotive trigger and analysis (CAN/LIN)
DSOX3COMP Computer trigger and analysis (RS232/UART)
DSOX3EMBD Embedded trigger and analysis (I²C/SPI)
DSOX3FLEX FlexRay trigger and analysis
DSOX3MASK Mask limit testing
DSOX3MEMUP Memory upgrade to 4 Mpts
DSOX3PWR Power measurements
DSOX3SGM Segmented memory acquisition
DSOX3VID Video trigger and analysis
DSOX3WAVEGEN Integrated 20 MHz function/arbitrary waveform generator
DSOXDVM Integrated digital voltmeter
DSOXEDK Educator’s training kit

The Tektronix licences all Free are:

MDO3AFG
MDO3AERO
MDO3AUDIO
MDO3AUTO
MDO3COMP
MDO3EMBD
MDO3FLEX
MDO3LMT
MDO3PWR
MDO3USB


Thx.

[commie]

My question is, why do you need such an expensive scope?, is it for hobby,enthusiast use or are you going to be doing R&D?

There are very good 200MHz scopes for around the 1500.00 euro mark.

[Circuitous]

I have the Rigol 4024 and I am looking to upgrade to a Keysight MSO3000 soon.
The Rigol is slow and buggy.  The various serial decoders are crap.


Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[nctnico]

I'd also look at the Wavesurfer 3000 from Lecroy!

[Wuerstchenhund]

Dave did a Review of the Agilent 3000 X Series:



I'm sure you can do a lot worse than this. 

True, but you can still do a lot better 



Plus in Europe it also comes with all options for free:
http://teledynelecroy.com/europe/promotions/promotions.aspx

[GlowingGhoul]

1 - DSOX3024T Keysight

The DSOX3000T is a good scope but also very expensive for what you get. It's also a somewhat dated hardware design (based on the DSOX3kA which came out in 2012) which has a very fast update rate but lacks in terms of memory (only 4Mpts, which is pretty low these days) and has limited FFT (64kpts only). At the moment you can get all software options for free, and a few of these aren't available on other scopes, and if you need them then the DSOX3kT is your only choice. If not then it's still a decent scope for a lot of money.

2 - Yokogawa DLM2022

Yokogawa has nice scopes, and the DLM2022 is an interesting piece of kit. However, Yokogawa is pretty expensive, even more so their support which outside Japan for scopes can be pretty spotty. Plus the DLM2022 has a pretty low sample rate (i.e. only 2.5GSa full channel), and is a quite old an old design (IIRC it came out in 2009). It shows that Yokogawa's main customers for their kit is power electronics. Plus the selection of available probes is very limited.

I wouldn't buy the DLM2022.

3 - 3024 LeCroy WaveSurfer

This is a very nice scope, and would be my recommendation unless you need one of the options only available in the DSOX3024T. It has very good scpecs (4GSa/s, 10Mpts memory), a fast update rate, a large screen, and is the only scope in your list with an UI (LeCroy MAUI) that has actually been developed for touch interface. It also has some features found in LeCroy's high end scopes like WaveScan (an analysis tool for finding glitches, runts and other signal deviations), and pretty good FFT (up to 1Mpts). It's also cheaper than the DSOX3024T.

4 - Tektronix MDO3024

Well, it's a somewhat interesting scope as it comes with a built-in spectrum analyzer (SA). However, the few times I have seen one in real life I found it was buggy and slow, and the built-in SA has pretty poor specs. I'd say if you need a all-in-one unit that does scoping and SA then this might be worth considering, but in any other case I'd give it a pass. Plus Tek's support isn't as good as it used to be 15 years ago.

5 - Rigol DS4024

Well, what should I say? It's a pretty basic scope in terms of capabilities and performance (way below the other ones on the list). It has been plagued by a lot of firmware problems of which many (but not all) have been fixed, but there are still issues with it. It comes with large memory but that's more like a tick box exercise as it can't really use the memory sensibly (and FFT is limited to something rididculously low, i.e. 16kpoints or so). Plus Rigol's support is pretty much hit and miss (more miss it seems based on the reports in this forum) and generally questionable as with most other B-brands. I wouldn't go there.

My recommendation would be the LeCroy WaveSurfer 3024, at the moment it's probably the best option in its price class unless you really need one of the few software options that at the moment are only available for the Keysight DSOX3000T. if you're in Europe then there's currently a promo where you get all software options for free as well (and even if you're outside the Europe then I'm sure LeCroy would throw them in for you).

To put this in perspective, keep in mind this poster recommends LeCroy scopes exclusively and only levels criticism at their competitors. So take the advice, like all advice, with a big grain of salt. There's a good reason why LeCroy lags far behind in sales in your price range and it's not because purchasers of test equipment are fools.

[Karel]

To put this in perspective, keep in mind this poster recommends LeCroy scopes exclusively and only levels criticism at their competitors. So take the advice, like all advice, with a big grain of salt. There's a good reason why LeCroy lags far behind in sales in your price range and it's not because purchasers of test equipment are fools.

I fully agree with GlowingGhoul! I was about to write the same reply.

[Howardlong]

I believe that the lower bandwidth MDO3000 series can have their bandwidth liberated to 500MHz (as well as other options) if that's what floats your boat. There's a thread on it here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/mdo3000-hacking/45/

[nctnico]

There's a good reason why LeCroy lags far behind in sales in your price range and it's not because purchasers of test equipment are fools.

Can you elaborate on that? The way I see it LeCroy has focussed on the high end market for a long time and has entered the low end market in recent years. When I was looking for an oscilloscope earlier this year I have considered buying the Wavesurfer 3000 but the options where too expensive. If the options where free back then I might have got one to try and probably ended up keeping it.

[drws]

I really like my DSO-X 3024T.
I got all the free licences with it and found the educators pack to be useful in learning the different features that were available (there is an advanced guide, you download the pdf from their site and the scope generates different outputs which you try to trigger/decode etc)
I'd only used an old analogue scope 20 years ago, so it gave me an intro into the digital scope features was as I try and get back into electronics.

I quite like the touch screen, doesn't feel tacked on to me, the zone based triggering it much easier by just pressing on the screen where I want to trigger. Again this may be because I haven't spent years twiddling knobs (no dirty jokes please! ).

[aklimaj]

Hello everyone. I'm an Engineer in Keysight's Oscilloscope Division. I'd like to address some of these comments.

Hopefully you end up going with a 3000T!

Dave also said that in one of the previews, I seemed to understand that there are many functions Tektronix working for software and Keysight for Hardware .

Greetings

Most of the functions of our InfiniiVision scopes are performed in hardware. We have a custom ASIC designed and manufactured in house which runs all of the basic functions like acquiring the waveform, triggering, updating the screen, and measurements. All of the serial decoding is done using an FPGA.

Dave did a Review of the Agilent 3000 X Series:



I'm sure you can do a lot worse than this. 

Greetings

Dave also reviewed the 3000T this year.




And a teardown.

I really like my DSO-X 3024T.
I got all the free licences with it and found the educators pack to be useful in learning the different features that were available (there is an advanced guide, you download the pdf from their site and the scope generates different outputs which you try to trigger/decode etc)
I'd only used an old analogue scope 20 years ago, so it gave me an intro into the digital scope features was as I try and get back into electronics.

I quite like the touch screen, doesn't feel tacked on to me, the zone based triggering it much easier by just pressing on the screen where I want to trigger. Again this may be because I haven't spent years twiddling knobs (no dirty jokes please! ).

I'm glad you're enjoying it!

1 - DSOX3024T Keysight

The DSOX3000T is a good scope but also very expensive for what you get. It's also a somewhat dated hardware design (based on the DSOX3kA which came out in 2012) which has a very fast update rate but lacks in terms of memory (only 4Mpts, which is pretty low these days) and has limited FFT (64kpts only). At the moment you can get all software options for free, and a few of these aren't available on other scopes, and if you need them then the DSOX3kT is your only choice. If not then it's still a decent scope for a lot of money.

2 - Yokogawa DLM2022

Yokogawa has nice scopes, and the DLM2022 is an interesting piece of kit. However, Yokogawa is pretty expensive, even more so their support which outside Japan for scopes can be pretty spotty. Plus the DLM2022 has a pretty low sample rate (i.e. only 2.5GSa full channel), and is a quite old an old design (IIRC it came out in 2009). It shows that Yokogawa's main customers for their kit is power electronics. Plus the selection of available probes is very limited.

I wouldn't buy the DLM2022.

3 - 3024 LeCroy WaveSurfer

This is a very nice scope, and would be my recommendation unless you need one of the options only available in the DSOX3024T. It has very good scpecs (4GSa/s, 10Mpts memory), a fast update rate, a large screen, and is the only scope in your list with an UI (LeCroy MAUI) that has actually been developed for touch interface. It also has some features found in LeCroy's high end scopes like WaveScan (an analysis tool for finding glitches, runts and other signal deviations), and pretty good FFT (up to 1Mpts). It's also cheaper than the DSOX3024T.

4 - Tektronix MDO3024

Well, it's a somewhat interesting scope as it comes with a built-in spectrum analyzer (SA). However, the few times I have seen one in real life I found it was buggy and slow, and the built-in SA has pretty poor specs. I'd say if you need a all-in-one unit that does scoping and SA then this might be worth considering, but in any other case I'd give it a pass. Plus Tek's support isn't as good as it used to be 15 years ago.

5 - Rigol DS4024

Well, what should I say? It's a pretty basic scope in terms of capabilities and performance (way below the other ones on the list). It has been plagued by a lot of firmware problems of which many (but not all) have been fixed, but there are still issues with it. It comes with large memory but that's more like a tick box exercise as it can't really use the memory sensibly (and FFT is limited to something rididculously low, i.e. 16kpoints or so). Plus Rigol's support is pretty much hit and miss (more miss it seems based on the reports in this forum) and generally questionable as with most other B-brands. I wouldn't go there.

My recommendation would be the LeCroy WaveSurfer 3024, at the moment it's probably the best option in its price class unless you really need one of the few software options that at the moment are only available for the Keysight DSOX3000T. if you're in Europe then there's currently a promo where you get all software options for free as well (and even if you're outside the Europe then I'm sure LeCroy would throw them in for you).

To address your comment about the 3000T hardware, it is actually based on the 4000X and not the 3000A.

[Wuerstchenhund]

To put this in perspective, keep in mind this poster recommends LeCroy scopes exclusively and only levels criticism at their competitors.

Oh look, my personal troll is back! How cute!

But yes, you're soo right, I mean, I'd certainly never ever recommended buying an Agilent scope, no way! And I really never ever said anything positive about any other brand than LeCroy, for example Siglent or R&S. 

And of course I'd really never say something bad about a LeCroy scope, ever.

In all seriousness, I'd say you really need to get your head examined, dude.

So take the advice, like all advice, with a big grain of salt.

My recommendation for the OP or anyone who's interested in real facts to read the "Rigol DS4000 series VS Keysight 3000T Better Value?" thread from not too long ago and look at the verifyable facts presented there, and decide for yourself who's presenting supportable facts and who's spewing unsubstantiated crap:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds4000-series-vs-keysight-3000t-better-value/

But yes, I do often mention LeCroy when I think its appropriate, for the simple reason that most other people don't, because they're either not aware of their scopes or don't really know them (and believe the made up BS some people are spreading in this forum). The fact is that if people search for big brand scopes its usually "Agilent/Keysight" or "Tektronix". So not knowing about other alternatives means you could well be missing out. I may be wrong but I think one purpose of this forum is to help people make decisions, well we won't do that if we suppress anything outside the mainstream.

As to LeCroy, they're not just a minor player, it's in fact LeCroy who has pushed digital scope technology forward like no-one else, not Agilent/Keysight, and certainly not Tek. When it comes to the ultra high end LeCroy is simply the only game in town, period. Even Agilent/Keysight has nothing to offer there because they don't have the technology. Plus LeCroy is the only big name manufacturer that so far hasn't engaged in bashing its competitors like Keysight and Tek tend to do in their staged 'ours-vs-theirs' comparisons, which is a plus in my book.

As to their scopes, well I wouldn't buy their entry level stuff (WaveAce which is crap, WaveJet which is poor, both scopes are just bought in rebadges anyways) but starting with the WaveSurfer they offer great scopes. And I'm speaking from experience as I'm working mostly with high end gear, including Keysight's.

Don't get me wrong, the DSOX3kT is not a bad scope, it really isn't. And it definitely has its strengths (i.e. the available options, some of them you can't find anywhere else in this price class). However, in my opinion the WaveSurfer 3000 is a very attractive alternative because unlike the DSOX3000T it's not just a facelift of an old design, offers more memory and advanced toolsets like WaveScan, plus its cheaper (a few hundred dollars for the low bandwidth variant to literally several thousands of dollars for the high bandwidth versions). Again, for the OP, read the linked thread, which is very similar to what you're looking for. I posted all the facts there.

There's a good reason why LeCroy lags far behind in sales in your price range

Yes, LeCroy lacks in sales, so what? The DSOX3k is out since 2012, the WaveSurfer 3000 came to market mid-2014 (and before then LeCroy didn't really have an attractive scope in the low end segment). And still LeCroy manages to offer a comparable scope at lower prices. How come?

Oh, and I guess you think its completely co-incidental that that Keysight already offers all options free for the DSOX3kT, a scope that was only introduced a short while ago, and it has nothing to do with LeCroy pushing WaveSurfer 3000s in the market for a lower price?

and it's not because purchasers of test equipment are fools.

You're right, we aren't fools. But you, sir, managed quite well to look like a fool yourself. Again. As usual. 

[Wuerstchenhund]

Hello everyone. I'm an Engineer in Keysight's Oscilloscope Division. I'd like to address some of these comments.

[...]

To address your comment about the 3000T hardware, it is actually based on the 4000X and not the 3000A.

I see. That explains the increase in sample rate over the DSOX3000A.