Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

...As for what counts as on-topic and off-topic here, I'll remind everyone that the title of the thread is "Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread", and not "Test Equipment Discussion Only". As far as I'm concerned, anything people discuss here that helps them deal with the financial, physical, and emotional distress this addiction causes is fine, with the common sense exceptions of subjects known or likely to cause highly polarised and/or emotional conflicts, such as politics, religion, and the like.

If we want to make it TE only, then technically components, prototyping, pinball machines, and A/V electronics are all off topic. I have a simple method for dealing with "off topic"/posts I'm not interested in; I skim past them.

I believe this thread to be self-policing for the most part, my personal opinion is that Mod intervention isn't really necessary here except on the rare occasions when heads butting together goes past the few posts it should take to either solve differences or agree to not talk about them.

Hear, hear! 

mnem

I'll direct your attention to the line above regarding OT posts...

Forum rules trump thread rules

See forum rule #5

I've had a chance to sleep on this... and I'm going to choose my words very carefully here, because nothing less than the heart & soul of the TE Anonymous Thread itself, a community space many of us have invested a lot of time (our most precious resource) in, lies in the balance.

This... this completely misses the point I was making. Which is no surprise, because as with most of the misunderstandings which happen in here, it was taken completely out of context, which in this case is vital to its intent. That context being in response to AVGresponding's definitive post above.

The point I was making is pretty simple: There is no line about OT posts, because this thread has been an OT thread since its inception.

As AVGresponding so succinctly states, this thread has always been about Test Equipment Addiction and how we manage our addiction, and its effect on our lives, our finances (especially that ) and our families and even our work.

It started out as a joke... a parody of a 12 Steps program... which resonated so clearly with a large portion of your viewership that it soon took on a life of its own; spawning its own language, numerous subculture memes, and even a informal swap/trade back-channel of parts gifting and pro-bono brokerage to help folks get gear from "them as have" to "them as needs".

But at the heart of all of it has been the core principle of this space being TE Anonymous; I invite anybody here to go back and read the first dozen pages. You'll have to read that far before you see the first post showing the insides of a piece of TE; and that was presented as parodic TE Addict pr0n.

In fact, it isn't until page 20 that somebody posts what we now consider to be the mainstay of the thread: a quick "Don't turn it on, take it apart" photo gallery of the insides of a piece of TE. Page 35 is the first discussion of any kind of "How-To" subject (removing scratches from plastic), and in fact, the "TE Technical Talk" that is the other mainstay of this thread was considered OT until we started discussing the Jim Williams pulser with bd139's arrival on the scene somewhere around page 80.

This is an electronics forum, so try to stay on-topic. We understand that threads drift off-topic, but try not to start deliberately and grossly off-topic stuff.

megahaul of nicest vintage gear. is it permissible to post pinball and audio stuff ? @gnif ?

Acceptable, but taking this off topic to non-electronic related things is not permissible. This is an electronics forum and this topic is under "Test Equipment", so please keep it related even it it's tenuous.

There is some flexibility but this thread had gone too far off topic.

Again... that is the problem, isn't it? Despite some users demands that this thread be only about TE... it was founded and for most of its life has been about TE Addiction. We all deal with it in different ways... we come in here to talk about how eBay sucks right now, or how shippers destroyed something, or even how we deal with not being able to get new gear to tinker on.

Saskia restores vintage Pinball machines as a diversion, several members are amateur shutterbugs and car technology fanatics, Cubdriver has his cats, Cerebus and bd139 talk programming and even grumpy old med brings his carpentry in here because it holds up his TE acquisitions.

My point being... it is the huge diversity of interests displayed here that make it not only the largest in terms of post count, but also by far the most read thread on eevBlog.

this topic is under "Test Equipment"...

Yeah.... why exactly is that...? I mean, as the history of the thread itself shows, while it includes TE, the core of  the topic right at the top of the page is community-based support. Nobody asked for it to be stickied to the top of the TE section; we haven't had any problem staying at the top of any list on the forum since about page 30. 

I'm going to suggest something here that probably won't be popular... but maybe the problem isn't the content, which is still mostly about the same TE Addiction and related activities it has always been... but maybe where it has been placed on the forum.

Maybe instead of hogtying this thread with OT restrictions that are explicitly contrary to the origins of the thread, we need to move it to the "Everything Else" section where, as you say, OT stuff belongs and let the thread sink or swim of its own accord. I'm pretty sure it does not matter where you put it... the interest will continue, and it will still have one of the most popular viewerships on the platform.

If you continue to try and hammer this thread until it fits into a nice tidy 2U square so it fits neatly in with the rest of your rackmount TE, you will kill it, sure as night and day. Yes, you will have a nice tidy forum again, but like most of the existing oodles of strictly TE threads it will be about as generally interesting as watching a mantle clock, and for the same reasons.

At least if the thread is in the "Everything Else" section, it will have a fighting chance to stand on its own two legs.

mnem
Please don't turn this space into Vintage Radio Forums...

[EEVblog]

My opinion, take it or leave it. I agree with Admin. Lately it seems this thread has been OT with some TE sprinkled in here and there. And I've been just as guilty at times for wandering into unrelated subjects. But if you noticed, or maybe you haven't, my overall participation in this thread has diminished lately but when I do post it's on topic. And also lately I may go a day or two and not even log in. Then I try to slug through what seems like 75% off topic vs 25% TE. It's getting old. We have Discord for that stuff.

The notion that this thread will die if we more closely police ourselves per admin's request is ridiculous. I'll always be here. And so will many others who like me are TE addicted. It's not necessary that this thread have 4 pages per day of unrelated topics in order to survive. In fact, we may attract more participants to this thread if we stick to it's main principle....Test Equipment.     

I can't speak for the other mods, but I'm not an active user of this thread, but when I do visit it it always seem to be pretty well on topic.
We had a flurry of reports for the latest OT posts, and this is why we acted.
If it's true that this thread has become 75% off topic then that's quite sad. I'd like to see it being bought on topic. The stuff we had to remove just shouldn't be here.
If many of you just abolsutely have to post off topic then maybe we should consider having such a thread for supporters only so that newbies don't see it all.
The reason we try to curtail off-topic stuff is for two reasons:
1) It leads to animosity toward users and this spills out over into the forum in general.
2) Newbies will see the Latest Posts section just being filled with off-topic crap and they'll think the entire forum is like this and it drives them away.

Seasoned forum users with 1000+ posts can probably handle an off-topic Supporters only section? But I still don't like the idea. How hard is it NOT to go to the effort to post something off-topic? Like guns or stupids videos or whatever it is?

[dl6lr]

Contents: A Tek portable waveform monitor and vectorscope for analog and digital PAL TV and audio. AC adaptor is missing. In the battery compartment there is a NiMH pack, of course with zero volts dead. I jump started it with 500mA to 7.4V, then put it back into the WFM and it is now charging at approx 450mA. Reached until now 8.5V. I do not expect a great capacity, but I could change the cells.

WFM works on DC adapter, but haven't watched any signal yet.
Display seems to be somehow strange, menus are working, but have to watch with real signals.

Second device is a small portable DVD, USB and SD card player with LCD monitor, unfortunately it does not support AV in (there is a similar model w/o DVD player that has AV in).

Just tested the portable DVD player. It charges the battery and after 5h it got green, so I unplugged it, threw a DVD in it and fired it up. result:
https://youtu.be/-W5a2czjNUY

The WFM91D charged up, every cell has 1.4V, so I unplugged it and fired it up. Then used a cable to connect to the DVD player from above. It works. Result:
https://youtu.be/JMKjP-Jm40s

Sorry for portrait video from the smartphone, I rotated to 16:9 MP4 tv format (which displays fine in media player, VLC, ...) but when uploading it to YT it gets totally f***ed up. Tried several times with no luck. Any hints -> PM me

Edit: Changed link, reencoding with Premiere Elements did the job.

[gnif]

@mnementh - You are completely missing the point, the posts that were being made were so far off topic they didn't warrant even existing on this forum.

Despite some users demands that this thread be only about TE... it was founded and for most of its life has been about TE Addiction. We all deal with it in different ways... we come in here to talk about how eBay sucks right now, or how shippers destroyed something, or even how we deal with not being able to get new gear to tinker on.

Saskia restores vintage Pinball machines as a diversion, several members are amateur shutterbugs and car technology fanatics, Cubdriver has his cats, Cerebus and bd139 talk programming and even grumpy old med brings his carpentry in here because it holds up his TE acquisitions.

Every single thing you mentioned above here is related to electronics in some fashion, either trying to procure it, how it's used, etc...

The off topic posts that have been removed thus far are related to: painting, a fridge conversion into a four stroke engine, speed limits and regulations, firearms....

You tell me how the above topics are related in any way to electronics (perhaps the engine WAS an electronic device) or the general topic of this forum, let alone this thread. I never stated that this is a "TE Only" thread, but rather that it needs to stay on topic with regards to this forum and the community that use it while staying within the bounds of the forum rules that apply to all threads and topics regardless.

We have allowed this thread to be mostly self governed, and for the most part it has remained on topic. The fact that the regular users of this thread are starting to post moderator reports because they are sick of how far off topic it has gone tells us that we need to step in and pull things back to a sane place.

While you may feel that moderation on a thread like this to keep things within some sane bounds might drive people away, letting it fill up with off topic posts and go unchecked will just as quickly drive people away as they get sick of getting notified to posts that are not what they signed up for.

Other forums have a "General Lounge Thread" for this kind of general off topic discussion where anything goes, at this time we do not. I know first hand as a moderator on some of the largest community forums around how hard it is to moderate the "Lounge Thread" and I personally am glad that this forum does not have one as the workload for the moderators is very high to maintain it (not that I am against having it, nor is it my place to make this decision).

At the end of the day, this is an Electronics forum, posts must at the very minimum meet the requirement of being Electronics related, which includes all the topics you mention when they are in relation to electronics.

[pcprogrammer]

My opinion, take it or leave it. I agree with Admin. Lately it seems this thread has been OT with some TE sprinkled in here and there. And I've been just as guilty at times for wandering into unrelated subjects. But if you noticed, or maybe you haven't, my overall participation in this thread has diminished lately but when I do post it's on topic. And also lately I may go a day or two and not even log in. Then I try to slug through what seems like 75% off topic vs 25% TE. It's getting old. We have Discord for that stuff.

The notion that this thread will die if we more closely police ourselves per admin's request is ridiculous. I'll always be here. And so will many others who like me are TE addicted. It's not necessary that this thread have 4 pages per day of unrelated topics in order to survive. In fact, we may attract more participants to this thread if we stick to it's main principle....Test Equipment.     

I can't speak for the other mods, but I'm not an active user of this thread, but when I do visit it it always seem to be pretty well on topic.
We had a flurry of reports for the latest OT posts, and this is why we acted.
If it's true that this thread has become 75% off topic then that's quite sad. I'd like to see it being bought on topic. The stuff we had to remove just shouldn't be here.
If many of you just abolsutely have to post off topic then maybe we should consider having such a thread for supporters only so that newbies don't see it all.
The reason we try to curtail off-topic stuff is for two reasons:
1) It leads to animosity toward users and this spills out over into the forum in general.
2) Newbies will see the Latest Posts section just being filled with off-topic crap and they'll think the entire forum is like this and it drives them away.

Seasoned forum users with 1000+ posts can probably handle an off-topic Supporters only section? But I still don't like the idea. How hard is it NOT to go to the effort to post something off-topic? Like guns or stupids videos or whatever it is?

I was wondering just that. "Have there been reports about of topic stuff in this thread" and also toyed with the idea of a thread in the supporters lounge named "EEVBlog Addiction Therapy".

To some extend I like the less electronics related content to see what others think about topics that influence our day to day lives. I myself just stumbled on a remark of bd139 that tickled my interest and responded to that. Sure not about test equipment, and I fear that it lead others to follow, but to me it was interesting, and apparently also to some other members.

So maybe if there is an interest we should start a new thread in the lounge for it.

[tggzzz]

My opinion, take it or leave it. I agree with Admin. Lately it seems this thread has been OT with some TE sprinkled in here and there. And I've been just as guilty at times for wandering into unrelated subjects. But if you noticed, or maybe you haven't, my overall participation in this thread has diminished lately but when I do post it's on topic. And also lately I may go a day or two and not even log in. Then I try to slug through what seems like 75% off topic vs 25% TE. It's getting old. We have Discord for that stuff.

The notion that this thread will die if we more closely police ourselves per admin's request is ridiculous. I'll always be here. And so will many others who like me are TE addicted. It's not necessary that this thread have 4 pages per day of unrelated topics in order to survive. In fact, we may attract more participants to this thread if we stick to it's main principle....Test Equipment.     

I can't speak for the other mods, but I'm not an active user of this thread, but when I do visit it it always seem to be pretty well on topic.
We had a flurry of reports for the latest OT posts, and this is why we acted.
If it's true that this thread has become 75% off topic then that's quite sad.

IMHO 75% is an exaggeration, but of course there is a large grey area as to what is off topic in this thread.

For example, the user interface characteristics of TE, nuke control rooms, and car/aeroplane GUIs share a lot in common w.r.t. measurement practices and usability. Sometimes the most obvious examples are in one domain, sometimes in another - but the salient points can and do apply in the other domains.

I'd like to see it being bought on topic. The stuff we had to remove just shouldn't be here.
If many of you just abolsutely have to post off topic then maybe we should consider having such a thread for supporters only so that newbies don't see it all.
The reason we try to curtail off-topic stuff is for two reasons:
1) It leads to animosity toward users and this spills out over into the forum in general.
2) Newbies will see the Latest Posts section just being filled with off-topic crap and they'll think the entire forum is like this and it drives them away.

Seasoned forum users with 1000+ posts can probably handle an off-topic Supporters only section? But I still don't like the idea. How hard is it NOT to go to the effort to post something off-topic? Like guns or stupids videos or whatever it is?

I don't like the concept of an off topic supporters area, either. If I want that, I'll go to farcebook or twatter.

FWIW, personally I'd prefer that this topic isn't "pinned", since that "advertises" it too much. Sheer number of posts isn't a sufficient justification, IMHO.

[tautech]

Could chat about firearms all day but it’s best done via PM so to not draw the attention of Mods. 
But of course we could instead chat about screwdrivers, hammers, baseball bats or cars….all lethal weapons also.

You had better be joking.

Do you wish to explore the topic further in private ?

[tggzzz]

We have allowed this thread to be mostly self governed, and for the most part it has remained on topic. The fact that the regular users of this thread are starting to post moderator reports because they are sick of how far off topic it has gone tells us that we need to step in and pull things back to a sane place.

That's a solid argument, IMHO.

Other forums have a "General Lounge Thread" for this kind of general off topic discussion, at this time we do not. I know first hand as a moderator on some of the largest community forums around how hard it is to moderate the "Lounge Thread" and I personally am glad that this forum does not have one as the workload for the moderators is very high to maintain it (not that I am against having it, nor is it my place to make this decision).

When I want that kind of thing, I go to twatter or farcebook. Shortly thereafter I come back to this forum, with a sigh of relief

[Saskia]

@tautech, VK, Cc gnif
I can invite you to gunboard.de where you can discuss all that stuff as much as your hearts desire.  however these topics lead to huge discussions and unnecessary friction  at a place like eevblog. which is why I am trying to focus  on other stuff like pinball repair, audio repair, tuning, etc, when posting here.



.

[TERRA Operative]

On the subject of TEA, I just now won a punt on an auction for a HP 5335A Frequency counter. 2900yen, roughly US$22, plus postage.

I already have one with the GPIB, OCXO, and 1.3GHz options, so this slightly beat-up one will provide a few parts to polish mine up (I need the front display plastic cover, and one of the input level knobs has lost a bit of it's home detent click from usual wear and tear), then I'll get this one back up to working condition and flog it off.
It also has the handles fitted which I'll pilfer too for my good unit.

[Zenith]

We have allowed this thread to be mostly self governed, and for the most part it has remained on topic. The fact that the regular users of this thread are starting to post moderator reports because they are sick of how far off topic it has gone tells us that we need to step in and pull things back to a sane place.

Also some things which are off-topic are far more likely to cause people to complain than others, e.g. guns.

I can't see it myself, because I've always liked them, but it's a thing I've noticed.

[tggzzz]

@tautech, VK, Cc gnif
I can invite you to gunboats.de where you can discuss all that stuff as much as your hearts desire.  however these topics lead to huge discussions and unnecessary friction  at a place like eevblog. which is why I am trying to focus  on other stuff like pinball repair, audio repair, tuning, etc, when posting here.

That sounds - to me - like the equivalent of a football stadium.

I have zero interest in football, but I like having a football stadium a few miles away even though it occasionally causes car parking problems. Why? Because it does have a benefit to me: any local thugs looking to prove their virility by getting into a fight know where to go. And I know how to avoid that by "being elsewhere"

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not equating gun owners with thugs; I'm merely equating the benefits of knowing where not to be.

[25 CPS]

Well the slightly younger HP 34401A that arrived last week seems to function OK (quick check on Sunday evening), quite a noticeable difference in display brightness too.





The older one I was having trouble with when testing the 745A AC calibrator, seems to have died completely on all AC functions & frequency measurement, it was OK when I acquired it, another DMM for the lengthy repair queue. 

 

David

Is the dimmer 34401A the older one?  The reason I ask is I was one of the people who bought one of the new-old-stock US Navy surplus 34401As that were being sold on eBay a year or two ago and I was expecting it to have a very bright display but it was actually a bit dimmer than my older 34401A which I bought used.  You can kind of see in this picture here how the new one is dimmer:



In my case, I'm wondering if  the vacuum fluorescent display tube in the new one needs a bit of running time on it to get the phosphors woken up a bit or if the VFDs themselves varied that much over the production run of the 34401A.

[tggzzz]

Just noticed this snippet of wisdom over on sci.electronics.design. That contains some very high quality contributions by Win Hill (author of TAoE) and several people named in TAoE - plus a lot of other stuff.

On 03/08/22 10:42, Johann Klammer wrote:
...
> The thing when posting to usenset is that you should never ever read any of the replies.


That would itxelf be OT, except for the recent flurry of posts

[BU508A]

Well the slightly younger HP 34401A that arrived last week seems to function OK (quick check on Sunday evening), quite a noticeable difference in display brightness too.

Is the dimmer 34401A the older one?  The reason I ask is I was one of the people who bought one of the new-old-stock US Navy surplus 34401As that were being sold on eBay a year or two ago and I was expecting it to have a very bright display but it was actually a bit dimmer than my older 34401A which I bought used.  You can kind of see in this picture here how the new one is dimmer:



In my case, I'm wondering if  the vacuum fluorescent display tube in the new one needs a bit of running time on it to get the phosphors woken up a bit or if the VFDs themselves varied that much over the production run of the 34401A.

Yes, easy to spot. It has all red input jacks. Only the early models have them. The newer ones have red and black input jacks.

[Brumby]

I'm reasonably tolerant of the odd non-electronics discussion - but when it goes on and on and on, it's just too much.  I persist trudging through most of the posts with the hope of picking up some interesting, but there are times when I really doubt my sanity.

I've noticed some members who participate here far less than they have in the past.  I know some reasons, too.  These include the frequency and quantity of discussion outside the realm of electronics.  I admit I have contemplated reporting some of the content - but I have not done so.  However, I can readily understand those that have.

The one thing we have in common here is electronics - it's in the name: EEVblog.  Also, it would seem Dave put this place together for just such a common interest group.  So let's keep that in the forefront of our thinking.

[med6753]

And just for the record. Just because I am one most vocal about off topic subjects does NOT imply that I reported them. I did not. If I did you'd know it. I'm not that sneaky or shady. I am always upfront and make my actions known.

Edit.....UPS just showed up. Capacitors are here. Back on subject.

[Vince]

EDIT :  OK, gave that thing one last chance... I thought OK what if the topology inside was not as advertised... so I tested for a different configuration : instead of common on pin #1, I tested for no common point at all, independent resistors arranged as a "ladder", so to speak. Well that works much better !! I now can "see" all the resistors no worries, all at 150 ohms indeed, YEAH !!!!! 

That means I need to add a new tab to my inventory spreadsheet : " Resistors ". Boy if I start keeping track of all my resistors I will never see the end of it ! 
But I guess one can make an exception for special types of resistors like this one...

04H15 here, going to bed....   

So this means that we must send you some resistor arrays, lest it be all alone in it's category?

You read in me like in an open book ! 

Yes it sucks to have to keep an inventory and drawer space for just one single array.
I will check how much these things cost and if cheap enough, might stock on a few of them.
150 ohms I am not too sure what I could use that for, seems a bit low for a pull-up network... I guess 10K or 100K would be more useful.
Well maybe low values could be used in series with delicate IC inputs, to protect them ? OR on the outputs to protect against short-circuits... now I remember seeing such things on some schematics ages ago.

[Cerebus]

When scanning, how frequenty should you take your eyes off the road for a couple of seconds? That's to re-focus on the digital display, read the numbers (ugh, but that's the modern way), re-focus on the road.

A lot can happen in a couple of seconds.

The idea of digital speedos is pretty much a "Back to the future" concept.
 
Some cars had them back in the 1980s, & they were a disaster!
The big problem was that, as the car changed speed, the numbers tried to change fast enough to keep up, resulting in a display which was difficult to read.
I guess they could to be made to change in wider steps, but it's a bit like polishing a turd!

An "analog" display doesn't even need to have any mechanical components---ham radios have rendered "S" meters which look exactly like a moving coil meter.
Even if they don't want to go to that much trouble, they could make bargraph displays similar in appearance to the mechanical "ribbon" speedos of the early 1960s.

In my opinion, the big down side of the digital display for something like a speedometer indicator is the ease/speed of reading and comprehension.  An analog speedometer can be read at a glance - I know where the needle should be for various driving situations - for instance, it will normally be pointing somewhere between twelve and one o'clock when I'm traveling on the highway at speed.  A quick glance can tell me if it's where it should be, and also in which direction it's 'off' if it isn't.  A digital readout requires you to read it, then process the numbers, and decide how they relate to the desired speed.

On a freeway with a 65 MPH limit, a quick glance might show the pointer is a needle width above the small tic at 12:30 on the gauge face.  I know in an instant I'm close enough to 65 that a cop is unlikely to have any interest in me, so I'm good.  A digital readout indicating 67 MPH is going to require one to read the 67, process and compare it to 65, then judge if they're in a 'safe' speed zone.  Higher mental load than a glance at a needle that will almost instantly show how far and in what direction you're off from the posted limit.

-Pat

It's a well known, and oft ignored, result in human factors research. We're very good at spotting if "something is out of place" in a field full of things that take up absolute positions within that field. Thus a panel full of old rotating needle analogue meters is much better for process monitoring than a panel full of digital readouts, even with added warning indicators. An operator familiar with a panel will just glance at it and notice a single needle "out of place" in a panel of twenty meters in a fraction of a second, whereas digital readouts displaying exactly the same information will take several seconds to scan for an anomaly, or the anomaly may even be missed completely.

Edited to add: Having now subsequently plowed through a lot of discussion of on topic/off topic I'd like to point out that there can hardly be anything more on topic to test equipment, especially the older stuff that addicts acquire, than the ergonomics of old-timey analogue meters versus digital readouts. And where did it arise from - discussion of ergonomics of car speedometers which itself ultimately arose from a recommendation to get a speed camera detector. Not advocacy of any kind, just an observation.

[nixiefreqq]

found this poor thing in the bottom of a junk box.

it is the second calculator i ever bought.  (in 1976)

We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better, stronger, faster.

will post pics when restored to full function.

it is estimated that the miraculous return to life will occur on 6 aug. 

edit - it has been in the bottom of that box since about 1990.  do not recall the unfortunate circumstance that landed it there.

[Vince]

At last... 6 months later, I have finally finished  doing the plinths in the bedroom. Old man made custom plinths for me, took 3 months to make and then deliver. Then had to cut all the bits, glue them, acrylic sealant to fill the gaps along the walls... and paint that. A disaster, a chore, always paint your plinths before fitting them not after 
Painting these plinths was like Dragon's old wooden table top restoration... doing, redoing, rerereredoing.... then.... wondering about the possibility of... redoing it all over again.
So that took time... after a while you give up and just live with the imperfections and see the wider picture : it's fitted, it's painted, it looks decent in real usage (ie not sticking your nose on them...) so you call it a day and move on.


Anyway, it's a TEA celebration because that means that at long last, I won't have to sleep in the living room anymore. The bedroom stuff, and a couple shelving units, can now be transferred into that bedroom, which should free a few square meters worth in the living room, which means.... yes, the lab who also lives in the living room, can now EXPAND.. a tiny bit, and be more comfortable.

Because of course it's all about making the lab more comfy... whether I sleep in a bedroom or living room, I don't really care... but I do care about having a comfy lab where I don't hit the knobs of my glowing Tek scope collection all the time because the backrest of the wheeled chair at the bench barely clears the scopes behind it !     

NO MORE !   

Now I think I should be able to move the scope collection back a little, like maybe 50cm. Plenty enough for them to be "safe" and never have a chance to be kissed by the chair.

So the lab is improving ! 

[tggzzz]

When scanning, how frequenty should you take your eyes off the road for a couple of seconds? That's to re-focus on the digital display, read the numbers (ugh, but that's the modern way), re-focus on the road.

A lot can happen in a couple of seconds.

The idea of digital speedos is pretty much a "Back to the future" concept.
 
Some cars had them back in the 1980s, & they were a disaster!
The big problem was that, as the car changed speed, the numbers tried to change fast enough to keep up, resulting in a display which was difficult to read.
I guess they could to be made to change in wider steps, but it's a bit like polishing a turd!

An "analog" display doesn't even need to have any mechanical components---ham radios have rendered "S" meters which look exactly like a moving coil meter.
Even if they don't want to go to that much trouble, they could make bargraph displays similar in appearance to the mechanical "ribbon" speedos of the early 1960s.

In my opinion, the big down side of the digital display for something like a speedometer indicator is the ease/speed of reading and comprehension.  An analog speedometer can be read at a glance - I know where the needle should be for various driving situations - for instance, it will normally be pointing somewhere between twelve and one o'clock when I'm traveling on the highway at speed.  A quick glance can tell me if it's where it should be, and also in which direction it's 'off' if it isn't.  A digital readout requires you to read it, then process the numbers, and decide how they relate to the desired speed.

On a freeway with a 65 MPH limit, a quick glance might show the pointer is a needle width above the small tic at 12:30 on the gauge face.  I know in an instant I'm close enough to 65 that a cop is unlikely to have any interest in me, so I'm good.  A digital readout indicating 67 MPH is going to require one to read the 67, process and compare it to 65, then judge if they're in a 'safe' speed zone.  Higher mental load than a glance at a needle that will almost instantly show how far and in what direction you're off from the posted limit.

-Pat

It's a well known, and oft ignored, result in human factors research. We're very good at spotting if "something is out of place" in a field full of things that take up absolute positions within that field. Thus a panel full of old rotating needle analogue meters is much better for process monitoring than a panel full of digital readouts, even with added warning indicators. An operator familiar with a panel will just glance at it and notice a single needle "out of place" in a panel of twenty meters in a fraction of a second, whereas digital readouts displaying exactly the same information will take several seconds to scan for an anomaly, or the anomaly may even be missed completely.

But a counter example where differences are vital to rapid correct actions: manually operated controls. There the tactile feel can help make sure the correct control is operated (nuke power station controls, glider airbrake vs cable release).

You can, of course, add "spotting movement"  as a benefit of an analogue display. That's vitally important in some cases (how fast is this aircraft rotating, how long before X hits the red line).

Movement is also the basis of some instruments (e.g. ballistic galvanometer for measuring charge), and helpful in others (needle acceleration gives fast crude feel for voltage or resistance).

Assessing digits requires focussing the eyes, then comprehension, then refocussing the eyes - which is too slow in some circumstances. Digits are great for high resolution static measurements, or sometimes for enabling staff to be less well trained

[25 CPS]

Well the slightly younger HP 34401A that arrived last week seems to function OK (quick check on Sunday evening), quite a noticeable difference in display brightness too.

Is the dimmer 34401A the older one?  The reason I ask is I was one of the people who bought one of the new-old-stock US Navy surplus 34401As that were being sold on eBay a year or two ago and I was expecting it to have a very bright display but it was actually a bit dimmer than my older 34401A which I bought used.  You can kind of see in this picture here how the new one is dimmer:



In my case, I'm wondering if  the vacuum fluorescent display tube in the new one needs a bit of running time on it to get the phosphors woken up a bit or if the VFDs themselves varied that much over the production run of the 34401A.

Yes, easy to spot. It has all red input jacks. Only the early models have them. The newer ones have red and black input jacks.

I didn't notice that when I looked at the picture but I can see it now that you pointed it out.  In this case, it most likely is age and use causing the dimmer display on the older one.  I'm still scratching my head why my NOS 34401A is dimmer than the older, used one.  It's not unusable by any means, it's just perplexing that it's so reversed from what anyone would expect between new and used VFD displays.

[Robert763]

Hi fi kit sounds better when you’ve just paid for it.

On TE, just checked the EFC range of all the OCXOs from China and they’re all good. Can’t moan at 5 for £12 delivered! Now I need a 1 PPS source…

PicDiv is very good.
http://www.leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv.htm
code available to burn your own.

Or get a GPS I have excess stock 

[Cerebus]

...
We're very good at spotting if "something is out of place" in a field full of things that take up absolute positions within that field. ...

But a counter example where differences are vital to rapid correct actions: manually operated controls. There the tactile feel can help make sure the correct control is operated (nuke power station controls, glider airbrake vs cable release).

You can, of course, add "spotting movement"  as a benefit of an analogue display. That's vitally important in some cases (how fast is this aircraft rotating, how long before X hits the red line).

Movement is also the basis of some instruments (e.g. ballistic galvanometer for measuring charge), and helpful in others (needle acceleration gives fast crude feel for voltage or resistance).

Assessing digits requires focussing the eyes, then comprehension, then refocussing the eyes - which is too slow in some circumstances. Digits are great for high resolution static measurements, or sometimes for enabling staff to be less well trained

I don't think that's a counter example, in fact I suspect you of accidentally picking the wrong word. It's a complementary example, where some absolute physical attribute of a physical control (position, mechanical resistance, etc.) enhances it's usability.

Probably the worst trend in the last ten years has been the inappropriate adoption of touch screen user interfaces for everything. Touch screens are great for some tasks, poor for others, and potentially lethal for certain classes of task (e.g.  controls for heavy, fast-moving, real physical world things).