Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mansaxel]

Oh, and the 'but we didn't do that at school' is the kind of poor excuse that gets us Brits almost as poor a reputation as the 'Merkins get over speaking foreign languages. I didn't learn any German or Italian at school but at least made an attempt to learn some before setting foot in the respective countries, in fact I'd consider it bloody rude to go there without learning at least the very basics.

I did not do very well in French in school; I had a very good teacher first year, but he had to focus on Spanish classes so year 2 and on we had a sequence of bad or worse ones. I lost interest.  German did go better, and I had 6 full years of it.

Now, since I've been embedded a couple of vacations in almost all French it's working a bit better; I can get around a restaurant meal or a hotel check-in almost entirely in French. German is a lot easier, of course, but I did get to kickstart it when I had not spoken it for a very long time back in 1997. Very strange situation in Vienna Stadthalle concerning the parking of an OB vehicle ;-)

The perks of speaking a language that perhaps only 10 million people understand. You learn more of them, and fast.


Yesterdays report: Bayeux - Arromanches - St. Lo - Mont-St. Michel - Lorient (Port-Louis).

A non-payment Autoroute, for a change. Good. My children now have bathed twice in the Atlantic this year.

[TERRA Operative]

Supposing there is not enough clearance behind the panel, the safest option would be to print a combined holder for panel mount female jacks. The 3d printed part could be thick-walled and isolation would be provided by the plastic of the jacks. I guess they did it like this, because shrouded male connectors (as are standard on decent modern multimeters) were not readily available? You'll have to upgrade the leads to said type as well, but that should make a decent looking, safe and robust solution IMHO.

Yeah, maybe some basic plastic spacer rings to extend the plugs out of the front panel would work, pending investigation of clearances.

Whaddabout M-F banana leads and leave them in place ?
https://www.amazon.com/Extension-Connector-Silicone-Multimeter-Adapter/dp/B07NWZ71GH

The panel connectors in my unit are broken (Pressure from the nut has caused the plastic of the connector to crack), so they all need to be replaced.

[mansaxel]

Competition in Telecommunications is pretty much fake anyway.

We have something like 4 mobile carriers, and perhaps as many rebrandings which is no real net. They found the 3G build-out requirements tough to meet in the northern regions, because they're not as desolate as .au outback, but they're the least populated areas in entire Europe.  They pooled up in 2 networks, so there is some competition.

Dark fibre is the other issue. There is a lot of fibre providers over the country; only one, the old monopoly, has some claim to reach from long-reach transmission into peoples homes, but there is enough competition that you can build a fibre network all over the country without using much of their lines.

ISP-wise, we've got like 4 large and perhaps 10 small ISP's that have presence over the country. Most of the smaller ones are local. There is aggressive concentration going on in form of buying up smaller competitors.  In the large cities, you can effectively multi-home for a sensible price (or could, before IPv4 addresses ran out; now only v6 is cheap.) but on the countryside, it's harder.

Competition does exist, but the larger ones tend to try squashing it as much as possible, of course.

At work, I buy lit waves and dark fibre, and shop for IP transit, and it's reasonably healthy on the wholesale market which we're in, even if we're a end-user, because of our capacity needs; we can generate close to 0,6 Tbit peak outbound.

[bd139]

Place your bets. Will the Tek IC I ordered on 1st July from someone 10 miles away actually bother to turn up today so I’ve got something to do 

[Zoli]

Place your bets. Will the Tek IC I ordered Lon 1st July from someone 10 miles away actually bother to turn up today so I’ve got something to do 

No; go on hiking. Or that's what I would  do to piss off Murphy...

[bd139]

Murphy already got me there. Bloody Achilles injury  . Need to leave it another two weeks. Grr.

[ch_scr]

Place your bets. Will the Tek IC I ordered on 1st July from someone 10 miles away actually bother to turn up today so I’ve got something to do 

Still don't understand why you didn't go and pick it up yourself? At that distance, I would be way to impatient to wait for it to post...

[bd139]

They’re only available during business hours during which I am too busy

[BU508A]

UK question:
has anyone dealed with the seller behind this offer?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/275369981388

No not me, I don't buy from sites that are not in English as it's the only language I know, yes I know that sounds stupid, but in my days at school, languages was not really an option.

Seller is in the UK, I only got it via Ebay.de

Here, fixed that for you:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275369981388

Just swapped the .de part of the URL with the .co.uk part.
Btw, bidding has ended on this item.

[ch_scr]

They’re only available during business hours during which I am too busy

Yeah OK, that's annoying. I have let go free stuff because it was only available for pickup at office hours.

[ch_scr]

Supposing there is not enough clearance behind the panel, the safest option would be to print a combined holder for panel mount female jacks. The 3d printed part could be thick-walled and isolation would be provided by the plastic of the jacks. I guess they did it like this, because shrouded male connectors (as are standard on decent modern multimeters) were not readily available? You'll have to upgrade the leads to said type as well, but that should make a decent looking, safe and robust solution IMHO.

Yeah, maybe some basic plastic spacer rings to extend the plugs out of the front panel would work, pending investigation of clearances.

Whaddabout M-F banana leads and leave them in place ?
https://www.amazon.com/Extension-Connector-Silicone-Multimeter-Adapter/dp/B07NWZ71GH

The panel connectors in my unit are broken (Pressure from the nut has caused the plastic of the connector to crack), so they all need to be replaced.

Upon closer inspection I fear the safety panel jacks might be too thick to fit there together well, or might obstruct the markings at least.
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32684201221.html
Example link for size, the body is M12 x 21mm + the length of lug (9mm). Seems a standard size?

Edit: In that case a strain relief and "female safety jack on a wire" per hole (basically cut the cables tautech recommended) might be the cleaner option. The "other half" of the cut cable could be soldered and heat shrunk to the harness. Only the colours would be off, but if it's for personal use a bit of coloured heat shrink would probably be "good enough".

[tggzzz]

TBH if you can be bothered to cobble something together use the oz2cpu/Defpom method.
Why, because of mwyatt's contribution simulating my measurements to come up with the values of the passives in the networks of the OEM probe.
These things OEM whom as yet I've not found who makes them are damn expensive but don't forget a 20 lot of decent  quality grabbers alone will set you back a C note !

Or if you not in a hurry, keep an eye out for one that looks identical but made for LeCroy, Tek or Rigol and a little sleuthing on each of their websites will get you the Pt. # to look for.......then post them in the DIY thread for the benefit of others. 

I'm 100% they all have the same OEM and the twin thin silicone 8 way ribbon coax (that's a mouthful ! ) is a thing of beauty and near impossible to emulate unless you got mates in the company where it's made to get offcuts !
That's why Defpom went the route he did so to get something nice for his efforts rather than some cobbled together twisted pair mess.

Last year Siglent were specialing SPL2016 + MSO/LA and AWG/FG licensing with a new SDS2000X Plus for just $ 219 that was one hell of a deal compared to shelling out retail for each.

Actually, I was thinking to make a header so I could plug the HP pod and whip leads directly into the oz2cpu scope PCB. As I said, those will probably be more than long enough for anything I'd be doing, unless I change my mind and put the scope up higher on my bench, which is pretty unlikely ATM.

I was asking about MK's project since you linked to it at the beginning of the SDS2000X thread. Not knowing what the difference is between the Siglent frontend and the HP braided cables, I'm leery of just plugging random lengths of either braided cable or micro-coax into the front of the scope without any compensation, or the wrong compensation. I saw the issues oz2cpu was having there in the beginning.

mnem
 

OK so if you already have the HP pod den go widdat !
Be aware you only need get something 1/2 clean into the LA input terminals as what's shown on the display in Digital mode bares little resemblance to the actual signal. IIRC there's discussion about this in the DIY thread.
IMO coax LA probe set compensation is likely to be pretty much an industry standard however the truth of the matter is suck it and see.
But the fact that we don't see cries that 'it don't work properly' for any of these DIY creations which points to them being fairly forgiving.

General principle: assure yourself that you have sufficient analogue signal integrity. Then flip to the digital domain with an LA ot printf() etc.

If you do that then there is a good chance that there is sufficient leeway on the analogue waveform for it to be corrrecly interpreted as a digital signal, even with a crappy termination. That, after all, is a main benefit of digital signals.

The exception could be with the clock signal, especially if the other signals are close to setup and hold time limits.

[m k]

They’re only available during business hours during which I am too busy

Yeah OK, that's annoying. I have let go free stuff because it was only available for pickup at office hours.

If you take some time off how long it is still less expensive.

[bd139]

They’re only available during business hours during which I am too busy

Yeah OK, that's annoying. I have let go free stuff because it was only available for pickup at office hours.

If you take some time off how long it is still less expensive.

As a contractor it’s unlikely to be cheaper unless it’s really expensive 

[m k]

I knew it 
I will try one more time, but they are forcing me to go off grid...

1) I do not want to buy at the double price I am selling back to them
2) I want to put how much panels I want on my roof in my property
3) Yes the base price for a bidirectional meter is 16$ instead or the regular 12$ each month, and recently a power company in the area bumped it up to 30$/month just because.

Finally I talked yesterday with Mark a nice eng from the power company:

As long I do not feed back energy from my home to the grid:

1) No need to change my contract or install a bidirectional meter. My base price will stay the same 12$/month.
Will cost less than an emergency generator with maintenance included.

2) There is no more the 100% energy offset concept. I am allowed to get as much power I want from my roof.

3) Only an anti-islanding, quick disconnect device is required.

Basically since I will stay passive, what happen behind the meter is not power company beer.

Sharing all the above with all 3 solar companies I am talking to, they are all going "Oh Oh, this is interesting and awesome... thanks for sharing..."

 

What was the beginning?
I've not followed it.

I've wondered many times why people are so keen to selling their excess.
How many life times it'll take to pay that hardware back.

Here I'd probably have to pay more /kWh if my usage goes under some electric heating level but that is probably all.
Then I read how somebody is selling watt hours.
I don't get it.

Though I do know that unauthorized panels are or used to be a big no-no in Spain.
My understanding is also that it includes all types of uses and that the reason is overall used grid power.

Well in some countries you were / are paid MORE for the power fed into the grid than you pay for power taken out of it. Sometimes a lot more. This is of course paid for by a "green" tax on all the other consumers.
I've often wondered if anyone out there was charging batteries during the night and feeding the grid in the day to make money....

That really has to be a lot more.
We obviously don't have a source but how is southern USA, whole year of surplus?
(Wh category is considered as ripple)

Here it is a bit different.
I think we also have a dynamic pricing model where supply and demand do their thing.
So it's possible that you are paying both ways.

[BU508A]

Learnt something new (to me) today: Optical Center Punch

Wow!

https://youtu.be/6NAHL_AJJ6E?t=24

Now I want one ...     

[ch_scr]

Learnt something new (to me) today: Optical Center Punch

Wow!

https://youtu.be/6NAHL_AJJ6E?t=24

Now I want one ...     

You might enjoy this:

[BU508A]

Learnt something new (to me) today: Optical Center Punch

Wow!

https://youtu.be/6NAHL_AJJ6E?t=24

Now I want one ...     

You might enjoy this:

 

But this is another one of those blokes who use a caliper gauge to scribe. 

[Specmaster]

UK question:
has anyone dealed with the seller behind this offer?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/275369981388

No not me, I don't buy from sites that are not in English as it's the only language I know, yes I know that sounds stupid, but in my days at school, languages was not really an option.

There had to be a good reason why he was asking UK folks about it. The currency and location might be a big clue that this is an ebay UK seller whose listing just also happens to show up on ebay DE.



Oh, and the 'but we didn't do that at school' is the kind of poor excuse that gets us Brits almost as poor a reputation as the 'Merkins get over speaking foreign languages. I didn't learn any German or Italian at school but at least made an attempt to learn some before setting foot in the respective countries, in fact I'd consider it bloody rude to go there without learning at least the very basics.

Wrong, I have some German knowledge as I have been involved with German products while working at Crabtree Electrical and also Hager Powertech, the latter of which involved me in making many trips and phone calls to Tehalit  based in Heltersberg and so I have indeed picked up some language in that that time. I was also lucky in as much as most of the younger Germans also speak English.   

[AVGresponding]

Learnt something new (to me) today: Optical Center Punch

Wow!

https://youtu.be/6NAHL_AJJ6E?t=24

Now I want one ...     

You might enjoy this:

 

But this is another one of those blokes who use a caliper gauge to scribe. 

And also somehow still manage to get their punch indent off-centre   

[AVGresponding]

An up to date glasses prescription might be more helpful, and perhaps some breathing exercises.

As far as equipment goes, for maximum accuracy I'd cobble together something like This Old Tony's ultrasonic cutter with a simple point, and a footswitch.

[BU508A]

Today arrival: 10 Vishay (I think so) IL300-C optocouplers, discussed a few pages back.
2 Euro per piece.

[Specmaster]

The truly worrying thing about the Rogers meltdown is if there is anyone competent at Rogers and they were listened to it would not be possible for all of the infrastructure of a telco, encompassing Internet, voice, private data and so on to collapse together.

The only way this can happen is by creating a single point of failure for a collection of systems that, if built organically, or haphazardly, or even randomly, would not naturally have a single point of failure. You have to really go out of your way, and be monumentally stupid, to create a scenario where this is possible.

Worldwide, these sort of failings can be traced to one failure point......bean counters !
Actually it's more serious in that the western systems rewarding CEO's for their profitability or not driven, by rewarding shareholders being their biggest focus rather than staying in their lane and sticking to their knitting where bean counters get into positions of far too much influence and suck the CEO's into this downward spiral.
We'll see more of this in the next while is my prediction.

1000 times this all day long. When I was working at Crabtree Electrical, bean counters cost them 100's of school rewires each year because they would not allow the factory to make and the warehouse to stock surface metal wiring accessory boxes with NO knockouts in them so that they would be ready for the school holidays when contractors typically did the school rewires. It was a constant battle trying to get these produced and delivered in time to ensure that they be completed on time.

[Cerebus]

The Canadian telecommunications industry has always been very well protected and lacks competition, meaningful regulation, and a whole raft of other complaints.  Rogers and Bell aren’t just telecommunications companies, they’re also giant media conglomerates here.  Basically, they’re representatives of several over-consolidated industries.  Another example, look at the key players behind Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.  See any names you recognize?  The bottom line is, they’re well protected, have no meaningful competition or oversight, and they operate the way they do because they can.

The thing about monopolies in telecommunications is that, in theory, they are in a better position to build reliable networks than truly competitive companies. Being a monopoly means that you aren't [effectively] subject to price competition, so you don't have to cut your prices to the bone, so you can afford the redundant capacity and infrastructure to build a reliable network. One of the best techniques for building a reliable IP network I know I stole wholesale from how the GPO, a state monopoly, used to build out its interexchange links for reliability in its voice network.

But what's going on here isn't bean counters, lack of competition etcetera, although I'm sure that those have made their mark. This cascading failure, across networks using different technologies doesn't arise from a single point of failure that would arise naturally, even in the face of penny pinching. It requires additional effort, and hence additional cash, to engineer a single point of failure into a network that would naturally fail into isolated islands of connectivity into one that can be brought down across the board by something happening at a single, presumably central, point. Someone has taken some network function that is naturally distributed, brought it under central control, and done it in such a way that if the central control fails it is very hard to recover from because the distributed parts can't talk to the central control for recovery purposes once the central control fucks up and takes out communications across the whole network.

My guess? They've moved to using IP for all their internal connectivity, making everything rely on IP being working. Then they've failed to separate their control and data planes across the network, controlled BGP from a central point and redistributed BGP routes into their interior routing protocol and, crucially, made it possible for those injected routes to break connectivity for their control plane as well as their data plane. Result? A network that you can break quickly and easily by fucking up your centralised BGP routing, but where to recover from broken BGP you have to get engineers out to manually reconfigure routing across the whole network, router by router.

[Cerebus]

Competition in Telecommunications is pretty much fake anyway.

We have something like 4 mobile carriers, and perhaps as many rebrandings which is no real net. They found the 3G build-out requirements tough to meet in the northern regions, because they're not as desolate as .au outback, but they're the least populated areas in entire Europe.  They pooled up in 2 networks, so there is some competition.

Dark fibre is the other issue. There is a lot of fibre providers over the country; only one, the old monopoly, has some claim to reach from long-reach transmission into peoples homes, but there is enough competition that you can build a fibre network all over the country without using much of their lines.

ISP-wise, we've got like 4 large and perhaps 10 small ISP's that have presence over the country. Most of the smaller ones are local. There is aggressive concentration going on in form of buying up smaller competitors.  In the large cities, you can effectively multi-home for a sensible price (or could, before IPv4 addresses ran out; now only v6 is cheap.) but on the countryside, it's harder.

Competition does exist, but the larger ones tend to try squashing it as much as possible, of course.

At work, I buy lit waves and dark fibre, and shop for IP transit, and it's reasonably healthy on the wholesale market which we're in, even if we're a end-user, because of our capacity needs; we can generate close to 0,6 Tbit peak outbound.

I must be more cosmopolitan than I thought, You Tube just served me up an ad in French and the other day it served me up one in German.