Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[med6753]

I have very old memories of my Mother using a ringer washer and then hanging the clothes outside while getting stuck in the mud because the backyard was still ungraded/seeded. 

Needless to say she was extremely pleased when we got our first automatic washer and dryer. 

[McBryce]

   

And finally... What's better than Mandingo Fan 200 for 6 dollars...? 2 more for $8 each. Sadly, this was not a half-price day.   

No, I still have no idea what I'm going to do with them. I think I may have a fan fetish... 


mnem

It's better to have a fan fetish than to be a fetish fan?

McBryce.

[Specmaster]

Yeah, that's a large part of what I wind up getting into painful recursive debates with some folks (mostly those who are even worse at math than I am... how is that possible?  ); they just can't seem to grasp the fact that every step you get away from the point the energy is created to the point work is done is an order of magnitude of loss in total system efficiency.

What's really disheartening is trying to explain to these people that this model goes all the way up to the root source of all energy on this planet, which is the sun itself. Every step we get away from using that energy directly is another step of storage in some form... and again, an order of magnitude of loss in overall efficiency. 


mnem

This is why I wonder about people who want to use electricity generated from a home solar electricity system to provide power for a HWS, when, with little effect upon the roof area available for the solar panels, they can have a solar HWS, with the solar energy directly heating the water.

Another thing is pushing high density living on the basis of energy saving by making it "closer to where people work", thus, allegedly saving energy used for transport.
 
Two things seem obvious to me:-
(1) Not everybody works in the City Centre, so they will need to travel across the City to their work.
(2) Clothes drying on a backyard line is not possible in a high rise (unless you live in Hong Kong), so each flat will be using energy hungry electric clothes driers.In the Summer, these will heat up the flats, with a necessary increase in the use of airconditioners, to further increase energy consumption, on the washing days.

OK, in Countries with no discernible Summer, & very few rain free days, outside drying may not be an option, but certainly in Australia, & many others, it is---& it is free!

Well if you have a solar system generating electricity, you can use the electricity generated to power the equipment that is currently switched, or if not enough is produced, it will reduce the amount you have to purchase from the supply company. If anyone actually has a solar system just to power a HWS then I suggest they are not using the solar panels to their best advantage.

[AVGresponding]

I wonder how much electricity the Solar System generates..?  🤔

If you're heating water, solar thermal is far better than solar pv, but it does require installation by people that actually know what they are doing, and not just pretending.
We had an 80kW solar pv installed on one of our swimming pools, and as part of the energy efficiency refit (we got something like 2/3 of the money back on the project from central gov) there was also a solar thermal system installed.
Unfortunately, a control valve was installed the wrong way around, resulting in the basement flooding...

[Specmaster]

Yeah, that's a large part of what I wind up getting into painful recursive debates with some folks (mostly those who are even worse at math than I am... how is that possible?  ); they just can't seem to grasp the fact that every step you get away from the point the energy is created to the point work is done is an order of magnitude of loss in total system efficiency.

What's really disheartening is trying to explain to these people that this model goes all the way up to the root source of all energy on this planet, which is the sun itself. Every step we get away from using that energy directly is another step of storage in some form... and again, an order of magnitude of loss in overall efficiency. 


mnem

This is why I wonder about people who want to use electricity generated from a home solar electricity system to provide power for a HWS, when, with little effect upon the roof area available for the solar panels, they can have a solar HWS, with the solar energy directly heating the water.

Another thing is pushing high density living on the basis of energy saving by making it "closer to where people work", thus, allegedly saving energy used for transport.
 
Two things seem obvious to me:-
(1) Not everybody works in the City Centre, so they will need to travel across the City to their work.
(2) Clothes drying on a backyard line is not possible in a high rise (unless you live in Hong Kong), so each flat will be using energy hungry electric clothes driers.In the Summer, these will heat up the flats, with a necessary increase in the use of airconditioners, to further increase energy consumption, on the washing days.

OK, in Countries with no discernible Summer, & very few rain free days, outside drying may not be an option, but certainly in Australia, & many others, it is---& it is free!

Ummm... as someone who grew up with clothes dried on a line and knows the misery of road-rash on my junk and nipples rubbed raw from crunchy shirts and jeans that know how to "plank"...

Aww, hey-ell NO. You can have my tumble-dryer when you pry it from my cold, lifeless claws.

mnem
Or after Stuart over there is done fucking it...

Aw, come on, be fair, the only time I can recall that happening to me in my youth was on days when the sun scorched the ground and there was almost zero wind, so the washing on the line was like cardboard. Then all you needed to do was to pop them into a tumble dryer for a few minutes on low heat, just get the air forced through and soften the fabric. The other thing to do is to use fabric softener in the wash. I know SWMBO much prefers to use the outside line whenever it is possible

[Specmaster]

2467B... it's all " fixed " !!! 

Can't believe it....
(SNIP)
So happy I bought it, a good deal ! This scope is a keeper !! 

Obviously all of you out there with a 2465/2467 knew very well all along what my "problems" were, and were laughing in the background instead of rescuing me.

Needless to say, I hate you all deeply !!

I can't believe you let me rot that much for so long. You have no pity, not even for a fellow TEA. I am extremely disappointed.

I feel I need a 6 months TEA abstinence to rethink my membership...   

Speaking for myself, I were a bit busy IRL and most of the time had a hard time figuring exactly out  you were going on about.   

In all honesty Vince... when you get frustrated, your train of thought gets pretty erratic; trying to identify the actual point that you're trying to make can be hard as it seems to change from moment to moment. It's a bit like mental Whack-a-Mole.   

But one thing I have noticed is that, just like this time, once you settle down and actually take the deep dive into whatever you're working on, you seem to pretty quickly zero in on what is actually wrong and what part is PEBKAC error. 

Knowing this, it seemed best to let you do it your way; at least until you got so deadlocked you asked for a lifeline. Some people function best when they're lost in the woods; you might be one of those. 

mnem
"Don't follow me; I'm lost."

I think you are right.... I am just using TEA to think out loud, it helps me solve the problems at hand...
The simple fact of airing my problems helps my neurons connect together into problem solving mode...
It's like having to take notes of what your teacher says. If I don't take notes, I don't remember what he said. If I take notes, I remember what he said, and don't even feel the need to read my notes...
So it's not the notes themselves that are helpful.. it's just the act of taking them that enables the brain to register what the teacher says 


The time base "issue" at least, must have been confusing to read about, because it was certainly confusing to me to begin with ! 

Yep, that is called the living alone syndrome, so you either use a forum like this as your sounding board, or you talk to yourself, and then answer yourself which would be then bordering on insanity.
 I know that many on here say that living on your own is great, but it also has some major disadvantages, as does having a SWMBO, but on balance I think the latter is preferable, especially as you get older.

[Vince]

Not sure I understand how a SWMBO would be any different in this case, to being alone ? To you mean you talk to her about all the details of your TE repairs ? And she gives you technical advice ?! 
That's one helpful SWMBO, indeed... but somehow I doubt this is the norm...

I do talk to myself when repairing stuff, that's called thinking ! 

Sometimes, well usually, before posting on the forum to ask for help, I first do a dry run. I picture myself posting my question, then I imagine what the response would be : "Do we really need to hold your hand you lazy bastard ? Have you checked this ? And that ? What happens if you do this and that ?! " .

So, I do all the things I imagine I would be told to do, it gets me further, and if that doesn't fix it and I am still stuck, and really run out of ideas... then only I would post, because I genuinely would have tried absolutely everything I could think of.

But because TEA is what it is, unlike a dedicated repair thread for a specific piece of TE... well I do admit I do use it to air my thoughts, because I can't possibly be told off for it, given that it's at least 1090% about electronics, which can't be said of 90% of the traffic here.

I guess I use my repair problems as a source and excuse for spamming this thread about electronics, to try to counter act thse who spam it with completely irrelevant stuff. I guess it's a way to resist the OT spamming, my way to fight back. But that would be half unconscious.. we are entering psychiatric territory here...

[VK5RC]

I must be weird, Vince to me, you were thinking out loud and generally made sense. It is where the Theory of Operation section of the great manuals is essential reading for any TEA fix that isn't a short show 👍

[mnementh]

   

And finally... What's better than Mandingo Fan 200 for 6 dollars...? 2 more for $8 each. Sadly, this was not a half-price day.   

No, I still have no idea what I'm going to do with them. I think I may have a fan fetish... 


mnem

It's better to have a fan fetish than to be a fetish fan?

McBryce.

*raises a paw*

Ahem... resident pervy widdle dwagon fancier over here. Pretty obvious that both apply. 

mnem

[mnementh]

...OK, in Countries with no discernible Summer, & very few rain free days, outside drying may not be an option, but certainly in Australia, & many others, it is---& it is free!

Ummm... as someone who grew up with clothes dried on a line and knows the misery of road-rash on my junk and nipples rubbed raw from crunchy shirts and jeans that know how to "plank"...

Aww, hey-ell NO. You can have my tumble-dryer when you pry it from my cold, lifeless claws.

mnem
Or after Stuart over there is done fucking it...

Aw, come on, be fair, the only time I can recall that happening to me in my youth was on days when the sun scorched the ground and there was almost zero wind, so the washing on the line was like cardboard. Then all you needed to do was to pop them into a tumble dryer for a few minutes on low heat, just get the air forced through and soften the fabric. The other thing to do is to use fabric softener in the wash. I know SWMBO much prefers to use the outside line whenever it is possible.

Just no.

In order not to dry stiff, the clothes have to be moving constantly while drying; so windy days are the best. But hanging on a line, some parts of a garment move a lot and some barely at all. So there's always a stiff spot. Or three.

Fabric softener is just disgusting; all it does is pollute the last rinse and make clothes feel oily. Even "unscented" isn't... and I'm allergic.

I get that we're talking about saving energy here... but there are some lines I will not cross. The clothes line is one of them; it's just effing uncivilised.

EDIT: Yeah, I see you still agree that straight off the line still sucks, and even you still need to finish them in the dryer. I live in a household with two kids and a tinkerdwagon who has grubby paws pretty much anytime I'm not cooking. We do an average of two loads a day between clothes and towels... there simply is not enough time in the day for the clothesline thing, even if I were willing to put up with it.

And then there's winter... frozen jeans are an abomination.

mnem
I live in cotton.

[mansaxel]

Aw, come on, be fair, the only time I can recall that happening to me in my youth was on days when the sun scorched the ground and there was almost zero wind, so the washing on the line was like cardboard. Then all you needed to do was to pop them into a tumble dryer for a few minutes on low heat, just get the air forced through and soften the fabric. The other thing to do is to use fabric softener in the wash. I know SWMBO much prefers to use the outside line whenever it is possible

I much prefer outside. Currently our dryer has a fit of Bad Pump and I'm in short supply of round tuits, so we're hanging everything. Indoors mostly, but the good season is approaching.

Fabric softener is completely forbidden in our household. It is an environmental disaster.

[mansaxel]

Not sure I understand how a SWMBO would be any different in this case, to being alone ? To you mean you talk to her about all the details of your TE repairs ? And she gives you technical advice ?! 
That's one helpful SWMBO, indeed... but somehow I doubt this is the norm...

The trick is to marry/date outside the norm. I am very happy in this regard.

I do talk to myself when repairing stuff, that's called thinking ! 

It is indeed. Do continue. We listen, even if we're somewhat confused at times.

[med6753]

Yep, that is called the living alone syndrome, so you either use a forum like this as your sounding board, or you talk to yourself, and then answer yourself which would be then bordering on insanity.
 I know that many on here say that living on your own is great, but it also has some major disadvantages, as does having a SWMBO, but on balance I think the latter is preferable, especially as you get older.

Oh how wrong you are. I've been on both sides of that fence and after nearly 12 years of living alone I will never, ever opt for a SWMBO in any form. While I do enjoy having Lady Cop visits I also enjoy few days later taking her home. And she feels the same way. It is the main reason why we get along so well. We are not constantly up each other's arse and we both like our independence.

Do I talk to myself? Of course. And I never know what answer I may get back. 
A little lonely at times when the Lady Cop works mucho overtime and we may not see each other for a month or more? It happens.
But all in all living alone far surpasses the alternative. As I sit here in a t-shirt and skivvies drinking my coffee and deciding on MY TIME when I'll go take a shower and go grocery shopping.

[mnementh]

Not sure I understand how a SWMBO would be any different in this case, to being alone ? To you mean you talk to her about all the details of your TE repairs ? And she gives you technical advice ?! 
That's one helpful SWMBO, indeed... but somehow I doubt this is the norm...

I do talk to myself when repairing stuff, that's called thinking ! 

Sometimes, well usually, before posting on the forum to ask for help, I first do a dry run. I picture myself posting my question, then I imagine what the response would be : "Do we really need to hold your hand you lazy bastard ? Have you checked this ? And that ? What happens if you do this and that ?! " .

So, I do all the things I imagine I would be told to do, it gets me further, and if that doesn't fix it and I am still stuck, and really run out of ideas... then only I would post, because I genuinely would have tried absolutely everything I could think of.

But because TEA is what it is, unlike a dedicated repair thread for a specific piece of TE... well I do admit I do use it to air my thoughts, because I can't possibly be told off for it, given that it's at least 1090% about electronics, which can't be said of 90% of the traffic here.

I guess I use my repair problems as a source and excuse for spamming this thread about electronics, to try to counter act thse who spam it with completely irrelevant stuff. I guess it's a way to resist the OT spamming, my way to fight back. But that would be half unconscious.. we are entering psychiatric territory here...

Vince... this is an OT-tolerant thread, and we are weird in here. This is where they keep us, so we don't disrupt the serious technical threads.  That is also why it is one of the most-read threads on eevBlog.

We don't care if you ruminate out loud. Each and every one who posts in here has done it at one point or another. Probably most of the lurkers too, they just don't wanna admit it.    Don't take it personally if what you say perplexes some of us... many of us live in a semi-permanent state of confusion anyways. 

mnem
It's okay to talk to yourself; sometimes you need a correct answer.

[Cerebus]

In order not to dry stiff, the clothes have to be moving constantly while drying; so windy days are the best. But hanging on a line, some parts of a garment move a lot and some barely at all. So there's always a stiff spot. Or three.

Experience here, where we dry all our clothes just by hanging them up in the bathroom and kitchen, says different. No significant air flow, no softener, no tumbling or anything like that and no stiff clothes once they've dried. We're not even in a soft water area, this is good old "Are you giving me a funny look" hard as nails London water.

[Specmaster]

Not sure I understand how a SWMBO would be any different in this case, to being alone ? To you mean you talk to her about all the details of your TE repairs ? And she gives you technical advice ?! 
That's one helpful SWMBO, indeed... but somehow I doubt this is the norm...

I do talk to myself when repairing stuff, that's called thinking ! 

Sometimes, well usually, before posting on the forum to ask for help, I first do a dry run. I picture myself posting my question, then I imagine what the response would be : "Do we really need to hold your hand you lazy bastard ? Have you checked this ? And that ? What happens if you do this and that ?! " .

So, I do all the things I imagine I would be told to do, it gets me further, and if that doesn't fix it and I am still stuck, and really run out of ideas... then only I would post, because I genuinely would have tried absolutely everything I could think of.

But because TEA is what it is, unlike a dedicated repair thread for a specific piece of TE... well I do admit I do use it to air my thoughts, because I can't possibly be told off for it, given that it's at least 1090% about electronics, which can't be said of 90% of the traffic here.

I guess I use my repair problems as a source and excuse for spamming this thread about electronics, to try to counter act thse who spam it with completely irrelevant stuff. I guess it's a way to resist the OT spamming, my way to fight back. But that would be half unconscious.. we are entering psychiatric territory here...

Oh dear, you seem to think I was having a moan at you, when in fact I was not. What I was trying to say was it was perfectly natural for people living on their own to live and breath their passion practically 24/7. Whereas those with a SWMBO have A/ someone to moan to when they get frustrated because things are going their way, 2/ SWMBO's have a habit of reminding you that real life needs to carry on, 3/ The breaks that real life gives you away from away your passion, gives you time to reflect on the problems and often your sub conscious mind will point you in the direction of the solution. Haven't you ever that "Eureka" moment in your sleep where your brain resolves a problem that you were struggling with the day before, and often that solution has been staring you in the face, but you couldn't see if before?

I agree if you had a SWMBO who was on the same level as you, unlikely I know, but does sometimes happen, that would be brilliant, but just the distraction that they bring, buys you the time to review and remember things that you had overlooked / forgotten about 

[tggzzz]

2467B... it's all " fixed " !!! 

Can't believe it....

Well done, you've motivated me just a little further towards tackling my 2465 re-cap. My 2465 has never had anything done to it (no repair, re-cap, RIFA, re-cal), but it works fine at the moment (famous last words).

With RIFAs, that's very much the case. Go ahead and do it.

Simplest is to buy these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/252865418970 The manual is sufficient, except for the "swapped" capactor faux pas and the wretched fan collet. Both are described on this forum and elsewhere.

[Specmaster]

Yep, that is called the living alone syndrome, so you either use a forum like this as your sounding board, or you talk to yourself, and then answer yourself which would be then bordering on insanity.
 I know that many on here say that living on your own is great, but it also has some major disadvantages, as does having a SWMBO, but on balance I think the latter is preferable, especially as you get older.

Oh how wrong you are. I've been on both sides of that fence and after nearly 12 years of living alone I will never, ever opt for a SWMBO in any form. While I do enjoy having Lady Cop visits I also enjoy few days later taking her home. And she feels the same way. It is the main reason why we get along so well. We are not constantly up each other's arse and we both like our independence.

Do I talk to myself? Of course. And I never know what answer I may get back. 
A little lonely at times when the Lady Cop works mucho overtime and we may not see each other for a month or more? It happens.
But all in all living alone far surpasses the alternative. As I sit here in a t-shirt and skivvies drinking my coffee and deciding on MY TIME when I'll go take a shower and go grocery shopping.

Well, in a roundabout way, you have just confirmed almost perfectly the point I was making. I never actually said that the SWMBO had to be resident 24/7 did I? You just a mechanism to create yourself time to reflect and re-evaluate the issue that you're stuck on. As one of my mentors used to say, sometimes, you have to step outside the circle and then look back into the circle from the outside, or in other words, find a different perspective.

Also of course, some folks manage being alone far better than others and can actually regulate the time spent doing their hobby and thus naturally giving themselves space and time to re-think their problem and strategy for solving it.

[TERRA Operative]

Then.... light bulb time...I finally put all the clues together and came to a happy end : when I looked at the front panel to see what was the frequency thje probe compensation was outputting... to my amazement it did not say "X3 or "Y"... no, it says " 5Hz to 5MHz " !     What the fuck does that mean !!! Does the CPU at power up, generate a random number to decide what frequency it's going to use today ?! 
So... I measured the frequency of the probe calibrator output, using my lovely Metrix Nixie counter. Hell I was not disappointed... the frequency of the compensation signal DOES indeed change as you rotate the Time base knob !
So when you look at the signal with the scope, the signal always looks the same because the scope automatically modifies the frequency of the compensation signal to track the sweep speed ! So overall, it does produce what I was seeing : you change the sweep speed but the freaking signal on the screen does not change ! 

AH HAHAHAHA!!!! 

Guess who else fell for this one?!?! I'm glad I'm not the only one. Hahaha. 

[TERRA Operative]

IN OTHER NEWS: Thrift Haul No 227:




Today's thrifting run was productive but a wee bit more expensive than usual.  Picked this up for $55 brand-new in sealed box as it had a huge hole in the side of the carton; very careful inspection with my flashlight showed no damage, so I took a chance on it. This thing is supposed to like do EVERYTHING; Dehydrator, Convection oven, Toaster Oven, Air Fryer... even proofing bread! It's sortof like those ovens at Subway that toast your sandwich in 30 seconds, only for the home. Since I'd been shopping air fryers already, I decided that was little enough $$ to take the plunge.

My first test was on some cold pizza; quartz IR tube heating elements are glowing orange in like 10 seconds, and it has 2 each top & bottom. I'm still experimenting to find exact settings, but in Air Fryer mode it crisps up/rebrowns 3 slices of pizza in ~3 minutes just perfectly; that's less than half the time it takes in the oven. Overall, the general feel of the thing is "very nice toaster oven". I'm totes down widdat.

Yes that's great and all, but how well does it reflow a PCB? 

[Zucca]

Zucca, if the TPMS plays up I'm holding you personally responsible (I know you only 'fessed up to the i3, but you've dobbed yourself in it.)

PM me, I will be there for you.

[TERRA Operative]

2467B... it's all " fixed " !!! 

Can't believe it....
(SNIP)
So happy I bought it, a good deal ! This scope is a keeper !! 

Obviously all of you out there with a 2465/2467 knew very well all along what my "problems" were, and were laughing in the background instead of rescuing me.

Needless to say, I hate you all deeply !!

I can't believe you let me rot that much for so long. You have no pity, not even for a fellow TEA. I am extremely disappointed.

I feel I need a 6 months TEA abstinence to rethink my membership...   

Speaking for myself, I were a bit busy IRL and most of the time had a hard time figuring exactly out  you were going on about.   

In all honesty Vince... when you get frustrated, your train of thought gets pretty erratic; trying to identify the actual point that you're trying to make can be hard as it seems to change from moment to moment. It's a bit like mental Whack-a-Mole.   

But one thing I have noticed is that, just like this time, once you settle down and actually take the deep dive into whatever you're working on, you seem to pretty quickly zero in on what is actually wrong and what part is PEBKAC error. 

Knowing this, it seemed best to let you do it your way; at least until you got so deadlocked you asked for a lifeline. Some people function best when they're lost in the woods; you might be one of those. 

mnem
"Don't follow me; I'm lost."

I think you are right.... I am just using TEA to think out loud, it helps me solve the problems at hand...
The simple fact of airing my problems helps my neurons connect together into problem solving mode...
It's like having to take notes of what your teacher says. If I don't take notes, I don't remember what he said. If I take notes, I remember what he said, and don't even feel the need to read my notes...
So it's not the notes themselves that are helpful.. it's just the act of taking them that enables the brain to register what the teacher says 


The time base "issue" at least, must have been confusing to read about, because it was certainly confusing to me to begin with ! 

Yep, that is called the living alone syndrome, so you either use a forum like this as your sounding board, or you talk to yourself, and then answer yourself which would be then bordering on insanity.
 I know that many on here say that living on your own is great, but it also has some major disadvantages, as does having a SWMBO, but on balance I think the latter is preferable, especially as you get older.

Real insanity is when you argue with yourself.

And lose.

[mnementh]

In order not to dry stiff, the clothes have to be moving constantly while drying; so windy days are the best. But hanging on a line, some parts of a garment move a lot and some barely at all. So there's always a stiff spot. Or three.

Experience here, where we dry all our clothes just by hanging them up in the bathroom and kitchen, says different. No significant air flow, no softener, no tumbling or anything like that and no stiff clothes once they've dried. We're not even in a soft water area, this is good old "Are you giving me a funny look" hard as nails London water.

I dunno what to tell you C... my experience differs. Maybe it was different locale, maybe a different idea of what's "cottony soft", maybe water with even more minerals in it than you suggest, tho I've had my share of line-drying in at least 3 different states in the US.

Just... No, thank you.

Cheers,

mnem
OTOH, I suppose jeans you can bludgeon someone with might have some use...

[mnementh]

Yep, that is called the living alone syndrome, so you either use a forum like this as your sounding board, or you talk to yourself, and then answer yourself which would be then bordering on insanity. I know that many on here say that living on your own is great, but it also has some major disadvantages, as does having a SWMBO, but on balance I think the latter is preferable, especially as you get older.

Real insanity is when you argue with yourself.

And lose.

I'll argue that if you're arguing with yourself, you'd better hope nobody else wins. 

mnem
Unless it's The Hulk... he always wins.

...

...

...

Unless he's arguing with himself.

[mnementh]

Then.... light bulb time... So when you look at the signal with the scope, the signal always looks the same because the scope automatically modifies the frequency of the compensation signal to track the sweep speed ! So overall, it does produce what I was seeing : you change the sweep speed but the freaking signal on the screen does not change ! 

AH HAHAHAHA!!!! 

Guess who else fell for this one?!?! I'm glad I'm not the only one. Hahaha. 

I did too... a decade or three ago. Then I R'd TFM. 

mnem
Would be nice if my 54645A did that.