Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

FIREFOX : need to insall an extension to download Pornhub Youtube videos and whatnot, what is the most popular/better one to use these days ??

Firefox lists a bunch of them when I do a search for "video download "...

Immediate goal is to download TerraOperative's video on his 2467B restoration, as it's really good. I would like to save it to my hard drive i my 2467B folder, so that I am 100% sure I have it at hand when I want, even if Terra goes mad and deletes it, or YT fucks up, or my internet connection goes completely kaput.

I can send you the video file directly if you like. Let me know your file size constraints and I'll open the original project file and pump out a new video file, just for Vince! I'll stick it on my google drive or something for you to download.

How nice ! 

Yes Google drive would be convenient I think, since my e-mail is a Gmail one, so I guess I would not have to do anything special to get your file, no new website to subscribe to or something.

Don't have asilly big hard drive, 500GB with 300GB available. A video under 500MB would be plenty enough. On YT it displays on " 1080 HD " it says. Goole says that means 1900+ pixels wide.. that's much larger than my screen resolution (1600). A video at 1200 pixels wide would be pleeeenty good enough...as long as the picture quality is good, then it can be enlarged/zoomed in full screen without noticeable loss of quality...

Thanks again in advance ! 

Here's the link.
Downsampled to 720P, and roughly 550Mb in size. It's a bit crunched in quality, but it still very watchable.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LwmV_ih7aOi_M5ynSWBiwGHWzx0ZMbji/view?usp=sharing

Thanks a bunch ! 

I just downloaded it, not as fast the Dwagon ogf course, but still never seen here, a staggering 2MB/s . This crappy 4G modem is not at fault then... it's just my ISP that gives me crap B/W 99% of the time...
I fully expect the speed to get back to its "normal" 150 kB/s in a short while, once people get back home from work and "rush" hour start on the interweb... 

Quality is plenty good enough : can even read perfectly all the part numbers on the chips, and the silk screen. Dwagon has first world tastes I guess, lucky him.

[Vince]

...I can't remember which LED I need to replace so I don't know if I will be in luck or not... will need to wait 'til the PSU is recapped and put back in...
ISTR the LED was somewhere in the upper left corner of the front panel, but which one exactly I don't knoooooow......   

With the panel unplugged should be easy-peasy, as it appears the +5V rail for the LEDs is isolated from that for the ICs. Just test the LEDs directly using the DIODE/JUNCTION TEST function on your meter. Any that don't light up, investigate further. If none of your meters will produce enough Vfd or current to light a LED on that function, then you have a REALLY GOOD excuse to shop for one that does; even if it's just a cheap Aneng AN8xxx. 

mnem

That's precisely the hard part ! 

No not getting a crap meter just to test LEDs...

I tried my goto Fluke 11 and WaveTek DM27XT. Both can light old salvaged red or green standard/low luminosity 5mm LED. Red is very dim but green which is what we are interested in here, is much better, though still not stellar.
Then tried a Metrix MX54, it's much better. If I really want super bright when testing, I can just use my power supply and put a current limiting resistor in series. This way I can test any LED you can throw at me and get it as bright as it can handle...

But again I don't need to test them all, I only need to put back the PSU to see which is the one I know is dead. The others I already know work fine...

Working on the front panel and on the PSU are two completely independent tasks. They share no dismantling of anything. There is no reason to try and fix the front panel and the PSU at the same time.
It's two completely independent jobs.

My goal for now is to fix the PSU ASAP before I forget how to put it back together. I don't te get distracted by adding other jobs to the mix. One thing at a time here...
If I am successful with the PSU I will be well happy and could then contemplate doing other jobs on this scope... but I want to focus on the PSU only right now...

I might still order green LEDs and a new battery along with the caps, but I am not attempting to pull the font panel until the PSU is recapped, put back together, re-installed, and assured it works fine.

I know my limits, want to try to minimize the risk of fucking things up, on a scope I care a lot about and managed to get for a good price.

[Cerebus]

I'm not sure what the flat flex PCB's are worth from memory, but much more than your typical $5 prototype PCB.
I ordered 2 and got 3 sent, so you might be lucky too, maybe... (Sorry, I have none left)

I think it's worth saying that in the general case getting flat flex PCBs made is, like all other PCB manufacturing, just getting cheaper and cheaper. Still not "JLC cheap", but cheaper. If one has liked the idea of a flat flex PCB for something in the past, but been put off by the prices, it might be worth getting an online quote before ruling it out.

The last time I generated a flat flex quote (actually a combination rigid/flat flex board) out of curiosity I was pleasantly surprised. That was around mid year, last year. I haven't looked since. I was toying with the idea of generating a little flat flex daughterboard just to act as a transition for USB connectors thus making busted USB connectors a screwdriver replaceable part. It wasn't quite cheap enough for me to adopt the idea then, but it's probably time to revisit it. I can't remember the exact figures.

[mnementh]

With the panel unplugged should be easy-peasy, as it appears the +5V rail for the LEDs is isolated from that for the ICs. Just test the LEDs directly using the DIODE/JUNCTION TEST function on your meter. Any that don't light up, investigate further. If none of your meters will produce enough Vfd or current to light a LED on that function, then you have a REALLY GOOD excuse to shop for one that does; even if it's just a cheap Aneng AN8xxx. 

mnem

That's precisely the hard part !     No not getting a crap meter just to test LEDs...

Yeah, that money would be much better spent on storage media from the current millenium.   

But seriously... I've said it before, I'll say it again: having a cheap POS meter, scope, etc on hand is just cheap insurance; especially the older EDU models, since they're usually made of cheapest possible discrete components so can be fixed easily.

There's another value to these cheap analog scopes from decades past... they're the perfect tool to use when you want to do something dangerous & stoopit, so you don't risk a good scope. They've got them worked out to a point where they've been empirically whittled down to just the bare essentials; almost entirely made of off-the-shelf components, and as such they're usually much more robust than they should be, while also being almost endlessly repairable.

They're like "the perfect henchman" for your workbench.   

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

I think you missed the point, the item is not sold so no money paid, no gain no fraud.

The "no gain no fraud" doesn't wash, as anyone jailed for attempted fraud will tell you. [Criminal Attempts Act 1981 and previously common law]

The only time it is illegal is if there is a single real bidder and the auctioneer does not sell as soon as the reserve is met. No one is making the real bidder bid more.  I agree it's not good practice  but its done. The moral issue is that it could make the unwary bidder think th item is worh more because someone else is bidding - auction fever.

Yes exactly, that's the deception and it's sufficient for mens rhea that one is reckless as to the consequences of an actus rheus. Although the auctioneer might be intending to merely 'puff up' to the reserve and not intending to inflate the price beyond what is reasonable, if they do so it's misrepresentation caused purely by their acts.

Also remember consumer and retail law does not apply to auctions in the UK.

Yes, but criminal law does.

It is indeed very similar to proxy bidding on an item with a reserve on ebay. For example consider an item listed at 99p start and £60 reserve.  If I Bid £10 the bid stays at 99p and reserve not met. If someone else bids £9.99 it goes to me at £10 but still reserve not met. If I then increse my limit to £55 nothing changes, but if I increase to £65 the bid will jump to £60 to me with reserve met even if no one else bids.

The difference is that you know that you are bidding up to find the reserve and deliberately accepting the risk of placing a bid knowing that you have granted eBay permission to place proxy bids on your behalf. If the reserve is crazy you won't bid up to it, and nobody else's bids are convincing you that you have underestimated the true price of the item in question. That's a world of difference from the auctioneer inserting a fictitious bid with the hope that a real bidder will follow.

Any way you cut this if the auctioneer deliberate drives up the price, that is what they are doing, deliberately driving up the price. Their rôle is to be an impartial arbiter between the sellers and buyers. As soon as they act partially, while still presenting an apparent facade of impartiality, they are engaging in deception. That is behaviour that reaches the standard of criminality, ask anyone who's passed their criminal law and jurisprudence exams.

[Cerebus]

You can add Engineer Tools to the Japanese list. They have a special pliers for the extraction of fnorked screws, which definitely comes handy sometimes.

I use a bunch of Enginner brand stuff. It's good quality gear, and their Neji-saurus pliers (Screw-saurus pliers) as you mention are great for getting out of a stuck situation.

I keep on meaning to get myself a pair of those. That intention is redoubled now that I know they have a kawaii name!

[Cerebus]

Go for the BD139 route, start shitposting about them on Twitter, seems to produce almost instant positive results.

They should realize a bad post here can create more damages than a bad twitter....

Perhaps ... but Twitter will likely hit a nerve quicker.

Exactly. There's many a company that suffers the consequences of their bad decisions as word gets around, but unless you stick it under their noses they will never make the connection between "bad incident that started the word going around" and their drop in sales. Companies are collectively stupid, and you have to treat them as such; public shaming has rapid results whereas waiting for the distributed dinosaur brains of a corporation to communicate with each other can take forever.

[AVGresponding]

You can add Engineer Tools to the Japanese list. They have a special pliers for the extraction of fnorked screws, which definitely comes handy sometimes.

I use a bunch of Enginner brand stuff. It's good quality gear, and their Neji-saurus pliers (Screw-saurus pliers) as you mention are great for getting out of a stuck situation.

I keep on meaning to get myself a pair of those. That intention is redoubled now that I know they have a kawaii name!

They look quite good, and clearly Knipex think so too, as they've recently copied released their own design of screw-gripping pliers:  https://www.knipex.com/en-uk/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump-pliers/knipex-twingrip-slip-joint-pliers/knipex-twingripslip-joint-pliers/8201200

I was unable to find any way to buy anything on the Engineer Co website...   

[Vince]

But seriously... I've said it before, I'll say it again: having a cheap POS meter, scope, etc on hand is just cheap insurance; especially the older EDU models, since they're usually made of cheapest possible discrete components so can be fixed easily.

May I remind you that I have 25 DMM and 30+ scopes ?
I have plenty to choose from !

When I don't want to risk my nice gear (nice to me anyway, thing what you want of my old stuff I don't care...), scope wise I have this old Hameg basic analog scope, with a decent B/W of 60MHz.
For meters, I have 3 analog meters, one of which I don't care about, didn't pay for it and no sentimental value, and loads of it for sale here at any time, for 20 Euros. It's a Metrix 462. Excellent analog Meter, it's like the " Simpson "in the US, millions were made, many revisions over the decades...
If I want a fancy digital meter than recently I got this Metrix MX 20 puppy. Bottom of the barrel performance wise, but has all the basic features you want in a DMM, and it's an ASYC design so excellent build quality alround. Also has huge fat digits, a joy to look at. Best of all, it's pretty much NIB yet I paid only 10 Euros for it ! What's the catch I hear you say ? Well seller sold it as "defective"/ for parts, because he was honest enough to say that the meter drains a fresh set of AA batteries in a couple of hours, even when turned off. I confirmed that... now need to investigate ! 
I tried the meter and it works absolutely perfectly well, it's just fine....so I don't think the ASIC in it is dead at all... the drain must be something analogy. With some luck there is a electrolytic caps decoupling the batteries and it's on its way out.. something like that. So once it's fixed it will be my "in case it goes wring" DMM ! 

[med6753]

The Type 105 calibration is complete. I got out the big guns to do final checks. 7904 with 50 ohm 7A19 vertical plug in and the Fluke 7260A checking the frequency.

First order of business. How good is the rise time? Manual sez depending upon load (50 ohm, 93 ohm, etc) anywhere between 13ns and 20ns.
This 70 year old design is showing from 10% to 90% exactly 10ns. And yea there's some bumps and grinds before reaching 100%. I am more than happy with that and I'm not going to screw around any further with it. 



So how does the square wave look at 1MHz? Judge for yourself. I'd say pretty amazing again for a 70 year old design. So what if it has a few minor warts on leading and trailing edge.



I used the 7260A to check/adjust each frequency range so the meter tracks accurately.

And I forgot that damn near all the components in this unit are elevated above the chassis by at least 150V. I went to adjust a metal trimmer cap with an all metal driver and my little finger was contacting the chassis. I got buzzed. 

Going to button it up and this project is complete. 

[Cerebus]

You can add Engineer Tools to the Japanese list. They have a special pliers for the extraction of fnorked screws, which definitely comes handy sometimes.

I use a bunch of Enginner brand stuff. It's good quality gear, and their Neji-saurus pliers (Screw-saurus pliers) as you mention are great for getting out of a stuck situation.

I keep on meaning to get myself a pair of those. That intention is redoubled now that I know they have a kawaii name!

They look quite good, and clearly Knipex think so too, as they've recently copied released their own design of screw-gripping pliers:  https://www.knipex.com/en-uk/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump-pliers/knipex-twingrip-slip-joint-pliers/knipex-twingripslip-joint-pliers/8201200

I was unable to find any way to buy anything on the Engineer Co website...   

Often the way with Japanese companies; I'm not going to offer any theories as to why.

I searched on eBay UK for "neji-saurus"and immediately found: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251176589284 so I bought a pair.

[Vince]

The Type 105 calibration is complete. I got out the big guns to do final checks. 7904 with 50 ohm 7A19 vertical plug in and the Fluke 7260A checking the frequency.

First order of business. How good is the rise time? Manual sez depending upon load (50 ohm, 93 ohm, etc) anywhere between 13ns and 20ns.
This 70 year old design is showing from 10% to 90% exactly 10ns. And yea there's some bumps and grinds before reaching 100%. I am more than happy with that and I'm not going to screw around any further with it. 

So how does the square wave look at 1MHz? Judge for yourself. I'd say pretty amazing again for a 70 year old design. So what if it has a few minor warts on leading and trailing edge.

Wow it's a winner, old Tek again did not disappoint !

[Saskia]

just returned from a 9 hour trip to drop off and pick up various stuff.
drop off: about 100 moving boxes
pick up: some Heinje shelves from IKEA to stuff and sort my fishing tackle
pick up: Ultrasparc 10 with keyboard, mouse, shitloads of ethernet cards.
Turns out that this was the firewall for a German cake factory.
pick up: house clearing equipment.
pick up: fodder for above.

Tired.
Hubby wants to move stuff. I don't.

[mnementh]

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_5/10

 

mnem
"It's not old junk... it's vintage tech-nol-oh-gee..." ~uncle Julian

[Vince]

Hmmmm beautiful CRT, I miss mine, think I will buy some again ! 

[med6753]

The Type 105 is back together. The cabinet has a few scratches but doesn't require painting. The leather handle has a few cracks but is otherwise OK.





What better way to put it on burn-in than with vintage appropriate equipment? 

[mnementh]

ON THE BENCH TODAY: 32in Apple Cinema Display Power Problems

When I first got my Dual-Xeon MacPro, the guy who was wheeling it to the curb warned me that it might need a new power brick. I was like "Okay, sure... but as long as that's really what's in those boxes, I still totally want it. I've been wanting to play with MacOS again for a while." (Translation: "For free, take; for buy, waste time." )

Anyhoo... sure enuf, the thing had power problems... After testing several times, even splitting the power brick open and monitoring DC voltage output during "failure" events, I surmised that the brick was still providing adequate 24VDC with little sag or noise, but poor connection at the plug was probably the culprit. So, I very carefully "retensioned" the contacts inside the plug with a dental pick such that they made good contact again; and for most of the while I had the thing in the GWN, it behaved quite nicely. Then it would randomly go into shutdown from time to time, only it seemed that unplugging and replugging at the DC connector resolved the issue for weeks at a time. Well, durign this period I did occasionally do some research into locating a replacement, or trying to find a hack... it turned out this was a effing phenomenon, and it was more of a "not if, but when" the failure happened thing. Well, 11 years after the thing was made was a wee bit late for trying to get a replacement... and the supply of  known good/NOS ones for the 32in model was long ago exhausted. I could spend lots of money and take a gamble on one off fleaBay that might work for a week or a month, or I could...  so I just lived with it.



Fast forward to now, when I'm finally getting it set up again... and it's gone totally wonky. Have to unplug/replug a couple times a day now, then finally totes no worky for more than a few minutes at a time. Connector seems still to plug in quite firmly, so... 

Well, one of the things I read in my research was that there are several different models of "the brick"... one for each of the models of the Cinema Display. Of course, the biggest is for the 32in model; and supposedly, the brick for that one works fine with the next couple sizes smaller, but not the other way around. Looking at the PCB above, I guessed that like with the little iPad bricks, they used an "ID resistor" (or resistor bridge) which tells the monitor it is plugged into a brick with adequate current capacity.

Now that got me thinking... what if the problem is with the connector, or maybe a combination of iffy connector and voltage sag on the other side of the connector. While I can't see any arcing damage on either part of the connector, I suspect it might be just enough that the voltage at that ID resistor sense wire is fluctuating more than it should.




So I decided to split the connector open; as you can see, it's encased first in copper foil, then filled with hot-snot. 




After some considerable time with a heat gun and dental picks, I cleared out all of the hot gloo. Once this was done, it was pretty simple to locate the ID resistor sense wire.




Here I've repaired the +24V connections, and added a bit of fiberboard as insulation between the two rows of pins...




And here I've hacked the ID resistor. 9.1K in parallel with 18K calculates to 6044Ω ; this measures 6043Ω on the bench, and 3010Ω in circuit here.




   The brick and plug are temporarily assembled for road-testing this mod; I've been using it without incident all day now. If it continues to behave, I'll close things up. If not, I'll solder some thin wire pigtails such that I can monitor at both sides of the connector.   

mnem

[Cerebus]

Any of the Apple Cinema Displays of that ilk will run as long as (1) there's enough power available at 24VDC and (2) the sense connector that tells it what flavour of power brick it's connected to is left floating. It's the sense contacts in the plug/brick that get dodgy over time. A strip of insulating tape a couple of mm wide and 2 inches long pushed in the plug in the right place will isolate the sense contacts and allow it to operate from any brick, or even with a bench power supply.

The Cinema Display on SWMBO's Mac is hardwired to an old Apple G4 laptop brick - all connectors cut off - with the sense wires floating and it works flawlessly.

[mnementh]

But seriously... I've said it before, I'll say it again: having a cheap POS meter, scope, etc on hand is just cheap insurance; especially the older EDU models, since they're usually made of cheapest possible discrete components so can be fixed easily.

May I remind you that I have 25 DMM and 30+ scopes ?
I have plenty to choose from !

When I don't want to risk my nice gear (nice to me anyway, thing what you want of my old stuff I don't care...), scope wise I have this old Hameg basic analog scope, with a decent B/W of 60MHz.
For meters, I have 3 analog meters, one of which I don't care about, didn't pay for it and no sentimental value, and loads of it for sale here at any time, for 20 Euros. It's a Metrix 462. Excellent analog Meter, it's like the " Simpson "in the US, millions were made, many revisions over the decades...
If I want a fancy digital meter than recently I got this Metrix MX 20 puppy. Bottom of the barrel performance wise, but has all the basic features you want in a DMM, and it's an ASYC design so excellent build quality alround. Also has huge fat digits, a joy to look at. Best of all, it's pretty much NIB yet I paid only 10 Euros for it ! What's the catch I hear you say ? Well seller sold it as "defective"/ for parts, because he was honest enough to say that the meter drains a fresh set of AA batteries in a couple of hours, even when turned off. I confirmed that... now need to investigate ! 
I tried the meter and it works absolutely perfectly well, it's just fine....so I don't think the ASIC in it is dead at all... the drain must be something analogy. With some luck there is a electrolytic caps decoupling the batteries and it's on its way out.. something like that. So once it's fixed it will be my "in case it goes wrong" DMM ! 

Okayyy... You just seemed overly fond of your METRIX DMMs... and I get brand loyalty. I mourned the loss of a Fluke 87 I'd owned for 30 years until I bought first my 189, then my 27. Now I finally feel more than adequately [FLUKE]ed...

That aside... the Aneng 8xxx are well-known to be excellent knock-around meters and far better than the price would ever suggest, albeit with a few quirks. Truly great bang/buck, and I don't regret a penny spent on the two I have. And equally, I won't shed a tear for either if it takes one for the team; that's why I got 'em in the first place.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Any of the Apple Cinema Displays of that ilk will run as long as (1) there's enough power available at 24VDC and (2) the sense connector that tells it what flavour of power brick it's connected to is left floating. It's the sense contacts in the plug/brick that get dodgy over time. A strip of insulating tape a couple of mm wide and 2 inches long pushed in the plug in the right place will isolate the sense contacts and allow it to operate from any brick, or even with a bench power supply.

The Cinema Display on SWMBO's Mac is hardwired to an old Apple G4 laptop brick - all connectors cut off - with the sense wires floating and it works flawlessly.

Well, that's great to know after the fact... 

Thanks for confirming that my guess as to the root cause was right. I was trying to figure this out myself, and figured it would need to be able to sense something in the neighborhood of the right voltage dropped across that resistor.

No reference to defeating the sense wire came up in any of my searches, unlike with hacking the GPU which I found myself quite deep in the technical hoopla in several thread on Macrumors. But I did finally figure out mine, even tho the SNR at Macrumors is sometimes as bad as /reddit.

Hacking the PSU as you suggest might be my next step, as I have a couple of 22V/10A Kiosk PC bricks that have never been deployed; 99% certain they'll provide plenty of clean power. Would also allow me to easily extend the power connector pigtail; having that brick right next to the CPU just plain sucks out loud.

mnem
 

[factory]

<SNIP>

I looked in the parts list but they don't list these connectors sadly ! 
.. so short of getting some from work, if you could if just find some old databook or something to identify them, that would be a big help, I could try and Google for them and maybe with some luck find some for sale. I guess I could salvage a male/female pair from the donour counter, but I would rather try to keep it complete as much/ as long as possible, in case I get the silly idea one day of restoring it.

<SNIP>

Those Hypertac connectors are VERY expensive. Very unlikey to find a cheap set.  They should have part numbers on the connector body though.

Alas no part number on them, only " FRB " stamped on them.. which does not tell me anything I didn't already know...

The health of the donour is declining fast, it worsened considerably since last night. It's now all over the shop and hopeless. It's time to call his parents and ask them if their religion if any, prevents me from using his organs to help other Ferisol counters in need. They can't all be winners....it's the great circle of life, counters die so that new counters can be born... 

So, if anyone can figure out the P/N for these connectors, in some old catalogue, please share. You will be rewarded with my immense gratitude, though I understand that it's not a valid currency to pay your rent and fill your tank at the gas station 

I've only seen part number printed on the more modern ones, the ancient Smiths version & older Hypertac had nothing on them that I remember. There was a time where we changed hundreds of the 35 way version during an overhaul.
I've got a board with several Smiths 16 way plugs, ex CNC machine tool readout according to the seller I got it from, give me time & I'll see if I have anything to fit them, you never know I might be able to help. 
If you could measure the FRB connector I can check they are the same size too.

David

Yeah that would be great, keep me updated !
Your pics show a two row connector but otherwise looks very similar to what I need !    right angle, round pins, PCB mount, one bolt at each end, same shape same colour... must be it.

I have just buttoned up the donour and took some macro shots of the connectors then took a few measurements with the calipers so I can post a thread about that on the forum, somewhere.

I measured, on the male/plugin board connector :

- Single row, 16 pins.
- Round pins, diameter 1.5mm
- Length of the pins (max length, including the conical/rounded tip ) : about 6.5mm.
- Pitch :  about 4mm. Should be quite accurate : measured the overall length of all 16 pins, 61.3mm, remove one diameter, about 60mm, divided by 15 intervals... 4mm.

Some bad news, measured the Smiths connector on the MM/INS readout board, the overall length of the 16 pins is 77.7mm (pitch is 5.08mm)  , pin length & diameter is the same however. They are two separate connectors stacked, top one has longer right angle pins.

David

[AVGresponding]

You can add Engineer Tools to the Japanese list. They have a special pliers for the extraction of fnorked screws, which definitely comes handy sometimes.

I use a bunch of Enginner brand stuff. It's good quality gear, and their Neji-saurus pliers (Screw-saurus pliers) as you mention are great for getting out of a stuck situation.

I keep on meaning to get myself a pair of those. That intention is redoubled now that I know they have a kawaii name!

They look quite good, and clearly Knipex think so too, as they've recently copied released their own design of screw-gripping pliers:  https://www.knipex.com/en-uk/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump-pliers/knipex-twingrip-slip-joint-pliers/knipex-twingripslip-joint-pliers/8201200

I was unable to find any way to buy anything on the Engineer Co website...   

Often the way with Japanese companies; I'm not going to offer any theories as to why.

I searched on eBay UK for "neji-saurus"and immediately found: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251176589284 so I bought a pair.

ebay just feels like cheating, somehow... in any case, the ones I want (PZ 81) seem to only be available from Japan anyway (ie not cheap).

"Thanks" for the ebay link.   

Here, have this one in exchange     :  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133953510227

[Vince]

But seriously... I've said it before, I'll say it again: having a cheap POS meter, scope, etc on hand is just cheap insurance; especially the older EDU models, since they're usually made of cheapest possible discrete components so can be fixed easily.

May I remind you that I have 25 DMM and 30+ scopes ?
I have plenty to choose from !

When I don't want to risk my nice gear (nice to me anyway, thing what you want of my old stuff I don't care...), scope wise I have this old Hameg basic analog scope, with a decent B/W of 60MHz.
For meters, I have 3 analog meters, one of which I don't care about, didn't pay for it and no sentimental value, and loads of it for sale here at any time, for 20 Euros. It's a Metrix 462. Excellent analog Meter, it's like the " Simpson "in the US, millions were made, many revisions over the decades...
If I want a fancy digital meter than recently I got this Metrix MX 20 puppy. Bottom of the barrel performance wise, but has all the basic features you want in a DMM, and it's an ASYC design so excellent build quality alround. Also has huge fat digits, a joy to look at. Best of all, it's pretty much NIB yet I paid only 10 Euros for it ! What's the catch I hear you say ? Well seller sold it as "defective"/ for parts, because he was honest enough to say that the meter drains a fresh set of AA batteries in a couple of hours, even when turned off. I confirmed that... now need to investigate ! 
I tried the meter and it works absolutely perfectly well, it's just fine....so I don't think the ASIC in it is dead at all... the drain must be something analogy. With some luck there is a electrolytic caps decoupling the batteries and it's on its way out.. something like that. So once it's fixed it will be my "in case it goes wrong" DMM ! 

Okayyy... You just seemed overly fond of your METRIX DMMs... and I get brand loyalty. I mourned the loss of a Fluke 87 I'd owned for 30 years until I bought first my 189, then my 27. Now I finally feel more than adequately [FLUKE]ed...

That aside... the Aneng 8xxx are well-known to be excellent knock-around meters and far better than the price would ever suggest, albeit with a few quirks. Truly great bang/buck, and I don't regret a penny spent on the two I have. And equally, I won't shed a tear for either if it takes one for the team; that's why I got 'em in the first place.

mnem
 

Just as I call BS about patriotism, I call BS about brand loyalty. It's just a marketing tool to manipulate the customer... I am not for sale.

99% of Metrix stuff since the '70's, is overprice junk, low spec, crap build quality, designed NOT to be serviced, no spares avaialbel, on service manuals 99% of the time. The only reason for their survival is the education market. School and universities because it's high volume, politically driven, and they are happy paying overpriced basic junik as long as it powered up and let's you do bottom of the barrel experiments in the lab for the students.
I don't give a crap about Metrix or anyone else.... what I do care about are the 0.5% of products they or anyone else made, that I actually like ! That 0.1% yes, I am "passionnate about " ! 

In the case of the DMM, it sop happens that Metrix made a superb alround product with their ASYC range of meters, and the MX 54/55/56 series, the top of the line, for its features and performance, looks/industrial design  (subjective but well , it clicks for me) etc... and seeing the price you can get theml at here... they represent absolutely tremendous value for money. When you can get a MX 53C for 60 Euros, a MX 54 for 90 or a 0.025% MX 56 for 120... absolutely nothing beats it, by a long shot, on the used market, and it makes buying a brand new chinese DMM a non-sense.

Bang for buck, the old Fluke DMMs are way over priced in comparison.

Only reason to buy a brand new Chinese meter would be...

1) You don't mind the cheap and childish look and feel.
2) You absolutely want a warranty on your product.
3) You don't care about reputation / track record / reliability.
4) You want it right now, in brand new condition, you don't want to search for month and month for a used item.... which is very understandable !

I also buy them because Metrix a local brand so they are actually available... but I guess in the USA, it makes sense to buy Fluke because it's good stuff and it's readily available there.
I guess in Germany you would buy Gossen Metrawatt, and in the Netherlands you would buy Philips...

I hope you get it now, and that you don't believe I have any kind of brand loyalty wrt Tektronix eh ?
You see the 30 Tek scopes I bought and think brand loyalty.. ridiculous.
What you see is just a collection of the few Tek scopes I happen to like, so I tend to many of them... but you don't see the many Tek scopes I don't like and will never buy ! 

I just buy the TE that I happen to like, whatever the brand or vintage... 

[AVGresponding]

meh... the only spanker I have, when it comes to DMMs, is a UT-139C. It is almost invariably the last meter I reach for, whatever I'm doing.

As it happens, my current go-to is a Metrix 57EX (I rotate through my collection). Though its technology is "dated" compared to modern DMMs, it is thoroughly competent; accurate, responsive and a pleasure to use.
Nominally it has the same CAT rating as the 139C, but can you guess which one I'd trust to not blow my hand off if I did something really stupid?

[Vince]

57Ex top notch, the best of the best, I approve !

Based on the top of the range MX56 but ads temperature measurement which is normally only found on the MX 54, not on the 53 nor 56.

So you get all the features + the best accuracy of the range.

Sure you lose the 10A current range but it's not like it gets used that often anyway... if you do need the 10A then just grab any other meter, no matter how crap it will be good enough.
High current readings on a DMM has never been mega accurate anyway