Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

https://www.newark.com/metcal/mx-ds1/desolder-hand-piece/dp/41B5513



Oh... yeah. And tweezers too. And custom heads for DIP8/14/20, etc... and all the cleaners and... and... 

mnem
 

A kings ransom to pay for them too?

I find that winding the temperature up a bit and adding a load of fresh solder helps a lot when working with large ground planes.

This is mostly for those playing along at home:

Yeah, that seems to be a common misconception here and everywhere soldering is discussed. There is a huge difference between cranking up the temperature vs delivering more heat. There is a reason we have big wide chisel tips with lots of mass and contact surface and tiny conical tips to reach tiny spots and almost every variant in between, even with conventional soldering irons. While you can make do by cranking up the heat on a smaller iron, it really is not the right way to do it, and often results in burning the substrate and lifting traces because right at the contact point you are delivering much too high a temperature to the work.

The difference with MetCal/SmartHeat and similar HF/inductive heating technology... and it really is something that has to be experienced to understand... is that it consistently delivers much more quantity of heat in a smaller tip than any resistive element iron is physically capable of doing.

You really do get a quantum level higher performance for your money.

The question then becomes one of budget vs need (or in my case, very limited space in my workbench bag) ; there simply is no question that if you can spend it, MetCal is worth every penny.

mnem
 

Agreed, but the point is that by using a larger chisel or K type tip which has a higher thermal mass, with fresh solder applied to it and then applied to the pad and even more solder added as needed to form a pool of liquid solder to transfer the heat across a larger area of the pad, it prevents the delamination. Transferring too much heat could disturb other connections on the pad of you're not careful.

[Specmaster]

Whoa, Spec.... that's kinda like deja vu'... kinda like deja vu'...

Nah, thats just Groundhog Day, when said he was having trouble measuring ESR etc, they were in circuit, I've had that scenario, but removing and suddenly things change, hence the question 

No, I was talking aboot the fact you double-quoted me here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3689017/#msg3689017

and figured you might wanna trim the excess mnem. 

mnem
pack a lunch; there's a lot to trim, and you'll be at it for a while...

Haha, I hadn't noticed that, I've gone back and fixed that, FTFY 

[shakalnokturn]

Just unboxed a Philips PM2534 system multimeter that came with manuals and PM9101 current clamp that appears to be quite a rarity, less than 50€ posted.
Why "system" multimeter? Because of the GPIB?

I took it apart before turning it on, there was an ugly not quite safe power switch bodge that needed undoing. Dumped the EPROM as I usually will when I open anything new. (New here is CIRCA 1986 going by date codes...)

After finally switching it on I found that I only had 4 digits worth of measurement followed by what must be "NC".

The service manual has a procedure to clear this display that appears after replacing SRAM (or dead battery). The battery is OK, it has been previously replaced.

Am I right in assuming that all adjustments are saved to SRAM and I'm up for going through the full procedure?

[mnementh]

https://www.newark.com/metcal/mx-ds1/desolder-hand-piece/dp/41B5513



Oh... yeah. And tweezers too. And custom heads for DIP8/14/20, etc... and all the cleaners and... and... 

mnem
 

A kings ransom to pay for them too?

I find that winding the temperature up a bit and adding a load of fresh solder helps a lot when working with large ground planes.

This is mostly for those playing along at home:

Yeah, that seems to be a common misconception here and everywhere soldering is discussed. There is a huge difference between cranking up the temperature vs delivering more heat. There is a reason we have big wide chisel tips with lots of mass and contact surface and tiny conical tips to reach tiny spots and almost every variant in between, even with conventional soldering irons. While you can make do by cranking up the heat on a smaller iron, it really is not the right way to do it, and often results in burning the substrate and lifting traces because right at the contact point you are delivering much too high a temperature to the work.

The difference with MetCal/SmartHeat and similar HF/inductive heating technology... and it really is something that has to be experienced to understand... is that it consistently delivers much more quantity of heat in a smaller tip than any resistive element iron is physically capable of doing.

You really do get a quantum level higher performance for your money.

The question then becomes one of budget vs need (or in my case, very limited space in my workbench bag) ; there simply is no question that if you can spend it, MetCal is worth every penny.

mnem
 

Agreed, but the point is that by using a larger chisel or K type tip which has a higher thermal mass, with fresh solder applied to it and then applied to the pad and even more solder added as needed to form a pool of liquid solder to transfer the heat across a larger area of the pad, it prevents the delamination. Transferring too much heat could disturb other connections on the pad of you're not careful.

It's this part that's not always true.

While that is the tactic, and one hopes for it to work that way, it doesn't always.

That's why it is much better to have a larger mass of metal (the big honkin' chisel tip) at the correct lower temperature than to try and make do with a smaller or lower wattage iron and try to crank up the temperature.

The difference with the Metcal, etc HF/inductive heating tech is that it can deliver quantity of heat at the correct lower temperature in a smaller tip equivalent to that of a larger higher wattage iron; this is a huge help when trying to do stuff like SMD work on large copper fills and the like.

What I'm talking aboot here is using the right tool for the job and not making a habit of using the "hold onto your butt and make do" tactic and hoping it works every time.

   There's a reason why I still keep a 150W Weller GT7 (temp-controlled gun) in a quick-draw holster under my bench; the wattage means it can deliver more quantity of heat at the correct temperature. The MetCal makes it so I don't have to reach for that big bruiser nearly as often. 

mnem
 

[Specmaster]

My RS delivery has finally arrived, new BNC's for the TDS210 fitted perfectly to the PCB (thanks for the link, bd) soldered nicely onto the large ground pads with a large T12 chisel tip and plenty of solder being applied. Screen shield resoldered, re assembled and tested, all OK.

Now awaiting the Fluke 85's arrival before going back onto the Thurlby DSA511 to try and get that running again.

[Specmaster]

https://www.newark.com/metcal/mx-ds1/desolder-hand-piece/dp/41B5513



Oh... yeah. And tweezers too. And custom heads for DIP8/14/20, etc... and all the cleaners and... and... 

mnem
 

A kings ransom to pay for them too?

I find that winding the temperature up a bit and adding a load of fresh solder helps a lot when working with large ground planes.

This is mostly for those playing along at home:

Yeah, that seems to be a common misconception here and everywhere soldering is discussed. There is a huge difference between cranking up the temperature vs delivering more heat. There is a reason we have big wide chisel tips with lots of mass and contact surface and tiny conical tips to reach tiny spots and almost every variant in between, even with conventional soldering irons. While you can make do by cranking up the heat on a smaller iron, it really is not the right way to do it, and often results in burning the substrate and lifting traces because right at the contact point you are delivering much too high a temperature to the work.

The difference with MetCal/SmartHeat and similar HF/inductive heating technology... and it really is something that has to be experienced to understand... is that it consistently delivers much more quantity of heat in a smaller tip than any resistive element iron is physically capable of doing.

You really do get a quantum level higher performance for your money.

The question then becomes one of budget vs need (or in my case, very limited space in my workbench bag) ; there simply is no question that if you can spend it, MetCal is worth every penny.

mnem
 

Agreed, but the point is that by using a larger chisel or K type tip which has a higher thermal mass, with fresh solder applied to it and then applied to the pad and even more solder added as needed to form a pool of liquid solder to transfer the heat across a larger area of the pad, it prevents the delamination. Transferring too much heat could disturb other connections on the pad of you're not careful.

It's this part that's not always true.

While that is the tactic, and one hopes for it to work that way, it doesn't always.

That's why it is much better to have a larger mass of metal (the big honkin' chisel tip) at the correct lower temperature than to try and make do with a smaller or lower wattage iron and try to crank up the temperature.

The difference with the Metcal, etc HF/inductive heating tech is that it can deliver quantity of heat at the correct lower temperature in a smaller tip equivalent to that of a larger higher wattage iron; this is a huge help when trying to do stuff like SMD work on large copper fills and the like.

What I'm talking aboot here is using the right tool for the job and not making a habit of using the "hold onto your butt and make do" tactic and hoping it works every time.

   There's a reason why I still keep a 150W Weller GT7 (temp-controlled gun) in a quick-draw holster under my bench; the MetCal makes it so I don't have to reach for that big bruiser nearly as often. 

mnem
 

Yeah I understand and one day, if I can afford one, I'll get a Metcal, in the meantime, I have to use what I have and I have seen the method I describe used by others. I'm not talking about massively higher temperatures, but as you know, the T12 system does incorporate a quick boost function for those larger joints and that is what I use and it works fine. I have delaminated pads before with my old Hakko clone, same as this one, but I have not had that problem with the T12 and boost function and I have made good joints onto solid ground planes of 200 x 260 mm with no problems.

[Cerebus]

Yeah, that seems to be a common misconception here and everywhere soldering is discussed. There is a huge difference between cranking up the temperature vs delivering more heat. There is a reason we have big wide chisel tips with lots of mass and contact surface and tiny conical tips to reach tiny spots and almost every variant in between, even with conventional soldering irons. While you can make do by cranking up the heat on a smaller iron, it really is not the right way to do it, and often results in burning the substrate and lifting traces because right at the contact point you are delivering much too high a temperature to the work.

The thing a lot of people don't seem to realise is how close to the ragged edge we're riding when we throw heat at FR-4. The glass transition temperature of FR-4 is only 140ºC, the rapid degradation temperature is only 310ºC.

[Cerebus]

Yeah, Cerebus expounded in great detail on the joys of dev work with a Source Measure Unit when he bought his, but eevBlog search is being a complete useless whiny bitch today. 

I don't have a SMU.    I might have been talking about using the HP 66312A as a poor man's SMU, which it does a fair job of.

[mnementh]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-arc-alchemist-release-date-specs-pricing-all-we-know

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/visual-technology/arc-discrete-graphics.html

So... Intel is finally releasing some details on their new ARC/Alchemist consumer GPUs; specs and prices sound fantastic on paper; promising hardware at sane prices that will be a real contender to Ampere and Big Navi.

But... if you were hoping they were leveraging their own manufacturing capacity to actually ease the shortage and produce GPUs from a new source, you'll be gravely disappointed. 

It's 6nm product, so Intel will just be another GPU brand that is repackaging TSMC silicon, so the upper-level fray (and the resultant barrage of marketeering bullshit  ) will just be that much more intense as all 3 vie for the same production capacity, along with Apple now also using TSMC for their 5nm ARM product line.

I expect anything that actually comes from this to be subject to the same exact fragmented shipping pattern and delivery dates, and the subsequent price gouging that has been the hallmark of our gaming hobby's dependence upon a single foundry for over a decade.

The cynic in me says Intel is just going "Meee tooo!" and trying to carve out their own piece of the NVidia price-gouging pie... and as they still have better bank than AMD they will probably actually be able to buy that production, making Big Navi even scarcer in the wild, and less relevant as nobody can actually buy them.

I think I'm going back to bashing RC trucks for fun.

mnem
 

[nfmax]

If you are going to play "What is it" try this one. Its a part I have and yes that is an SMA connector on the end.

A sensor for detecting water content in oil/fuel?

[mnementh]

Yeah, Cerebus expounded in great detail on the joys of dev work with a Source Measure Unit when he bought his, but eevBlog search is being a complete useless whiny bitch today. 

I don't have a SMU.    I might have been talking about using the HP 66312A as a poor man's SMU, which it does a fair job of.

Sorry, you're right; that's what I was thinking of. 

mnem
I've still got PSU envy. 

[Cerebus]

I don't watch yootoob vids as a rule, so I'll merely note that RF spectrum analysers traditionally start at 9kHz, presumably because of EMI/EMC regs.

I'd always assumed that it was the terrifying costs and physical size of big enough, high quality enough, DC blocking capacitors that would work any lower than that in a 50 environment. Quick calculate for -3dB = 9 kHz, R = 50 => 350nF. I've got some 1uF film caps and they are (1) huge, (2) not cheap, (3) probably not good enough for a spectrum analyser signal path.

[Kosmic]

After finally switching it on I found that I only had 4 digits worth of measurement followed by what must be "NC".

I think you're right their. I had a PM2534 and PM2535 in the past. Tempco was terrible on both. I sold them couples of years ago.

[Robert763]

If you are going to play "What is it" try this one. Its a part I have and yes that is an SMA connector on the end.

Antenna with preamp?

It looks like it's got 2 distinct "ports" / tubes to let the air in. And it's Robert so unless he is pervert and is on purpose trying to mislead us, then it's probably an aircraft part.  So.. some sensor in an aircraft that takes air in. But it's not an air speed / Pitot tube sensor. So.. maybe a sensor for an altimeter ??

Not an antenna or pressure sensor. It is a sensor and gas flows through it. A DMM or megger on the SMA reads open circuit.

[Specmaster]

If you are going to play "What is it" try this one. Its a part I have and yes that is an SMA connector on the end.

Antenna with preamp?

It looks like it's got 2 distinct "ports" / tubes to let the air in. And it's Robert so unless he is pervert and is on purpose trying to mislead us, then it's probably an aircraft part.  So.. some sensor in an aircraft that takes air in. But it's not an air speed / Pitot tube sensor. So.. maybe a sensor for an altimeter ??

Not an antenna or pressure sensor. It is a sensor and gas flows through it. A DMM or megger on the SMA reads open circuit.

Is is a Oxygen sensor?

[Vince]

A CO2 sensor to warn the pilots when to quick get the O2 mask on the nose, in case of a pressurization problem ?
I gather that a few planes crashed because the pilot(s) lost consciousness apparently so fast that they didn't even have time to realize what was going on 

[Cubdriver]

If you are going to play "What is it" try this one. Its a part I have and yes that is an SMA connector on the end.

Antenna with preamp?

It looks like it's got 2 distinct "ports" / tubes to let the air in. And it's Robert so unless he is pervert and is on purpose trying to mislead us, then it's probably an aircraft part.  So.. some sensor in an aircraft that takes air in. But it's not an air speed / Pitot tube sensor. So.. maybe a sensor for an altimeter ??

Not an antenna or pressure sensor. It is a sensor and gas flows through it. A DMM or megger on the SMA reads open circuit.

Sensor for a capacitive manometer?

-Pat

[Mick B]

It's also a inline  fuel filter

[Robert763]

Nope,
Inside there is just a rod soldered to the center of the SMS and a nickel foil lining the inside of the brass body.
The kicker is the surface of the foil is nickel 63 10mCi worth. This one is missing the foil as it needs a licence.
It's aan electron capture detector ECD most commonly found in gas chromatographs. HP/Agilent's lab equipment arm made a lot of similar devices. This one came from a british explosives detector.  There is a tiny current caused by the Beta radiation (electrons) Moleclues in the gas flowing through can capture these resulting in reduced current.
The Ni63 foils tend to corrode and "leak". It's quite nasty. Very low energy so hard to detect but if it gets into the body all the energy is dumped into cells.
You coud take this apart and nver know.

[mnementh]

Lack of power connection suggests some kind of crystal transducer?

NM... just saw your post. Woooh... that's some freaky outre' hardware there. A good stumper; unless you'd ever actually worked with it, you'd never guess. 

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

Not an antenna or pressure sensor. It is a sensor and gas flows through it. A DMM or megger on the SMA reads open circuit.

OK, so one of my guesses was right - it's a flow cell for gas of some sort. Reads open circuit - possibly needs an AC excitation signal, or collects charge from the gas flowing through. Catalytic gas sensors work at DC so it can't be one of them. Knowing your proclivities "ionisation" comes to mind - the possibly low Z casing tends to add weight to that. I think that's as close as I'm going to get without cheating and googling it to death.

Edit: Postings crossed in the æther. I was on the right track, ish.

[Specmaster]

Nope,
Inside there is just a rod soldered to the center of the SMS and a nickel foil lining the inside of the brass body.
The kicker is the surface of the foil is nickel 63 10mCi worth. This one is missing the foil as it needs a licence.
It's aan electron capture detector ECD most commonly found in gas chromatographs. HP/Agilent's lab equipment arm made a lot of similar devices. This one came from a british explosives detector.  There is a tiny current caused by the Beta radiation (electrons) Moleclues in the gas flowing through can capture these resulting in reduced current.
The Ni63 foils tend to corrode and "leak". It's quite nasty. Very low energy so hard to detect but if it gets into the body all the energy is dumped into cells.
You coud take this apart and nver know.

So is this used in the aviation industry to perhaps sniff out explosives in some way?

[mnementh]

https://www.newark.com/metcal/mx-ds1/desolder-hand-piece/dp/41B5513



Oh... yeah. And tweezers too. And custom heads for DIP8/14/20, etc... and all the cleaners and... and... 

mnem
 

Yeah I understand and one day, if I can afford one, I'll get a Metcal, in the meantime, I have to use what I have and I have seen the method I describe used by others. I'm not talking about massively higher temperatures, but as you know, the T12 system does incorporate a quick boost function for those larger joints and that is what I use and it works fine. I have delaminated pads before with my old Hakko clone, same as this one, but I have not had that problem with the T12 and boost function and I have made good joints onto solid ground planes of 200 x 260 mm with no problems.

Yeah, but now we come full circle to the original conversation... which was entirely aboot window shopping & drooling over the good stuff.

I don't have any of the special DIP tips or tweezers or solder sucker either for the same reason... they rarely come across my RADAR at a sane (read: not Defense Contractors/Cost Plus pricing) price.

But I damn sure do not regret the $150 (and some considerable eBay assache) tied up in what I do have, even compared to the ~$75 for my T12 system.

mnem
*tsssssssssst...* makes me 

[Neomys Sapiens]

Besides, everyone needs a break once in a while from our TEA and exploring things warm and soft is infinitely more interesting. 

For a moment I thought it was Dwagon writing, you surprised me ! 

The dwagon and med6753 do have more in common than one might think.   

I don't know whether to take that as a insult or compliment...   

mnem
"I'm only a asshole on Thursdays. Rest of the time I'm a whole ass." ~me, immediately after the line-dancing incident

Ditto. 

*hands med a hatchet, while slinging a shovel over his own shoulder*

"Walk with me..."

mnem
Life's too short for grudges...

Being told as above would make me extremely suspicious (and I am well aware that you tried to invoke 'burying the hatchet' here)
Am I given the supposedly more dangerous hatchet to carry in order to lull me in a false sense of security? Or so that he has both hands free to whack me with the shovel from behind?
One can't be careful enough those days - the enemy is always one paranoia level ahead!

[Neomys Sapiens]

Now THIS is a scope for minimalists:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/185046543160