Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

Spot on 

To back up my comments about Rossman, if these are data recovery jobs, why does he crow “repair” all over the place? MacGuyvering shit to get peoples data off is not a repair job. It’s a completely different skill set. A DR company gives you the remains of the hardware back with their debugging shit still half hanging off it for you to dispose of and the data on a volume shipped in the box. They don’t give you a working MacBook back with some repairs knowing that you’re going to carry on using it. At best that’s disingenuous.

My point is that a lot of stuff made now is not repairable even with the right to repair. At this point the manufacturer should bear the support costs or reduce their technology level to a point repair is possible. I bet the latter doesn’t go down well with the people promoting the right to repair.

Machines design and build most of our stuff at that level. Humans are shitty machines with a serious Dunning–Kruger effect problem especially when it comes to repair.

[Specmaster]

I think I'll just leave this coffee here......... Perfectly safe, as I already knew it would be because I've done it many times, for those that say you couldn't, just how big is your coffee mug, rather should I say bucket 

[mnementh]

I have no argument about your opinion on 8 and 9 year old machines.  I have the same opinion about an old laptop I have.  It's just that our opinion is just that - our opinion.

As for the claim of Louis Rossmann "selling his repair product" - how is he any different to a manufacturer?
 He is, at least, trying to offer customers more alternatives - and in that respect, I'm happy for him to do his best and let the market judge the value.  If the market is limited or non-existent then he's not going to get far - but if there is one (and his track record would indicate there is) then I'm happy to let someone service it.

My problem with Rossman is he’s doing these things at once and promoting it as a regular option when it should be the exceptional case. Firstly he passes MacGuyver repairs off as production. They should be used for data recovery and the hardware disposed of afterwards otherwise his customers risk more data loss. Bodge wiring around PCI express and RAM bus lines is a no! Secondly he is literally a predatory repair market ie the aforementioned short sighted humans who didn’t have insurance or extended warranties on expensive purchases. 

I can’t support that market as I know what goes on in it. Rossman is probably in the top 5% of reputable people in the market. But it’s a bell curve and the best are scary bad still.

He’s selling the repair industry as a lie which is getting a lot of attention.

1000x this.

I used to watch his channel a lot... then once the buzz wore off, I realized just how shite the "repairs" he was selling really were, and I was reminded of a "colleague" in the electronics "repair" industry whom I saw "cleaning" VCR capstans with sandpaper and "fixing" loading mechanism belts by paralleling a rubber band with the worn-out belt instead of replacing it.

Rossman is just the new millennium equivalent of that arsehole.

Similar experiences with "colleagues" in the automobile "repair" industry; like a 20-minute timing belt replacement on a Mitsubishi (remove belt cover, start engine, rub oiled rag against the belt til it looks shiny & new) and replacing a solenoid on a starter and spraying the rest with paint, then billing for a starter replacement, because it was much quicker & easier than dropping the exhaust and replacing the starter... and service managers who encouraged and expected such are the main reasons I fell out of the trade twice.

You can hide a multitude of mortal sins under the flag-hour labor guide process, I assure you; and similar costing guides apply to electronics repair as well.

mnem
 

[mnementh]

One of my soldering stations is giving me a bit of grief going into a random Error mode intermittently. Hanba badged but basically an Aoyue old school tips box with a fairly nice Hot air gun in it as well on side number two. I also have an Aoyue with a desoldering gun and the same Iron style on side two I would keep on the bench at this stage. The TS100 I have in my gear bag really does a better job in a lot of ways than either for soldering but its not really what I want on the bench.

So time to look for a new one -maybe. Pace ADS200 looks like a candidate but they run to just on $500USD locally. Everything I read about Quicko/KSGER T12 clones says likely PITA. Anything else between $2-500 that makes sense to look at?

Buying old School TEA is 'easy' if it has glowy red stuff in front in particular Nixie ones and lots of knobs then you do it and damm the consequences

Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life. I’ve had my Metcal PS900 for 2 years now. Zero issues. Comes up at $272 for a full kit on Newark.

It’s a “production” iron but fine for rework and prototyping stuff. Supplies for these irons are turning up on eBay as well now. Thanks to AVG I bagged two nice tips for under £10.

I'm going to poke bd with a stick right now and suggest you do as I did, and build a T12 station from parts as I did. Be prepared to buy 2 or 3 handles before you get a good one (not a problem; they're dirt cheap) and when you build your power supply, make sure you use a half-decent CV/CC power supply set to no more than 28V and 6A. If you do this, you will never have to worry aboot a short blowing up the T12 controller, and you will be able to hot-swap tips as the designers intended.

If you follow these two main caveats, and make sure to wire the damned handle and OLED T12 controller yourself so you can ensure a proper static-safe bleeder in the shell circuit, you will be rewarded a very competent station at a bargain price.

If you buy the pre-built kit like bd did, be prepared for the horrors he experienced.

The OLED T12 controllers made by Quicko and TSGER are quite honestly little marvels of open-source enginerding; what is wrong with every last one of the ready-made kits is the shite power sources and accessories that gets tacked on each end by skeevy online merchants.

In all these years, I've bought three 10-15 piece kits of cheap T12 tips... in that time, I've thrown away like 4 used up or faulty tips. At a total cost of ~$75, that's a metric-fuck-ton of tips for very little money.

Don't get me wrong... if you have the money to throw at MetCal, you will never regret the expenditure. They are a joy in the hand, and the SmartHeat system is fukkin' magic, but it is magic that delivers on its promise.

Just... you could actually do like I did, and buy/build both for really very little money, then judge for yourself. I promise you, if you do, you will not regret having either station on your bench.

mnem
 

[bd139]

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

[beanflying]

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

For gymnastic Soldering a 3S Lipo DC-DC boost box and a TS100 takes a lot of beating.

I really don't want 'another' project as the current list is way to long so a proper no fuss tool is needed. Even the manual knob twirled Aoyue works for 90% on my needs but its not as stable or gutsy as I want sometimes so the TS100 gets pulled from the gear bag as it does better because of the tip.

[mnementh]

I broke two TS100 handles in the course of everyday use... the core design is flawed and allows too much leverage against the split-construction of the handle. I would rather build a LiPo-powered T12 and live with the "wart on a wire" construction of the little 1/4 depth boxes Quicko still sells.

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

And I'll only "strenuously suggest" that if yours had a proper CV/CC power supply set up as I recommended, you'd still have yours and still love it. 

mnem
 

[bd139]

Hey it was a proper CC/CV supply. SLA is CV for a bit and the CC mode the I is rather high   

[URI]

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

My two T12 KSGER OLED stations work fine. 

I made one totally over engineered and one with an el cheapo chinesium DC/DC switcher using a matching (power-rating-wise) toroid transformer.
Ok, I still have my Weller WECP-20 and EC-2002 soldering stations sitting in the corner if the T12s should fail.
They haven't yet.

If you like building your own soldering Station for little money,
go for the DC-variant of the KSGER OLED soldering station controller 2.1/2.1S.
Avoid the AC-variant and it's broken AC-supply (bad earthing and a "waiting to kill you" isolation flaw).     

I'm looking for JBC stations for C470 cartridges for the soldering jobs needing "real" power on the other hand..     

Will this never end...?   

[beanflying]

Partly why my TS100 isn't now and never going to be my everyday driver. Perfect size however to have in the bag and I have 20+ LiPo source batteries if I am out flying 

Gratuitous 3D printer use for the carry box 

[tggzzz]

That "right to repair" debate is in danger of being defined in terms of a very limited number of (probably justifiable) examples.

But there are many other devices that can benefit, e.g. the mechanical parts of white goods, and (infamously) John Deere tractors (google John Deere tractor DMCA).

As for the concept of repairs being bodged, that's nothing new: look at some car repairs and household DIY!

[Specmaster]

Guys, why are you bashing Rossman for doing what he does? Do you seriously for a single moment believe that none of his customers are not fully aware of how he repairs their goods, robbing Peter to pay Paul by using chips removed from duff boards, replacing corroded tracks and pads with wires etc.

And do you seriously believe that he is charging his customers for repairs which do not work, he gives warranties on his work, he also makes no attempt to disguise the fact that he has a YouTube channel, in fact I think if you watch his videos, that his YouTube awards are hanging up on the wall. He is not one of these shady companies operating out of a garden shed somewhere, he has proper business premises and a professional website which lists what he does and explains  https://www.rossmanngroup.com/.

[mnementh]

I think I'll just leave this coffee here......... Perfectly safe, as I already knew it would be because I've done it many times, for those that say you couldn't, just how big is your coffee mug, rather should I say bucket

I have no idea what you're on aboot... but my hp has the built-in cupholder. 

mnem

[Specmaster]

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

Yep, I still think that you just got a bad one, hell every manufacturer out there is more than capable of making the odd rogue product now and then, but that doesn't mean all of them are, my two T12's have been made up in a similar vain to how mnementh prescribes, controllers from Quicko and Tsger, assembled in the recommended enclosures and using the PSU's from those companies and I have 2 very reliable and enjoyable irons that suit my workload very nicely. If I was making a living from them, then yes, I'd spend the extra money on a MetCal or similar. That being said of course, if you watch very carefully in a lot of Chinese factory videos you will spot lots of T12 irons being used in a production setting, so they clearly think that they are upto the heavy workload imposed on them, but as always YMMV.

[bd139]

Guys, why are you bashing Rossman for doing what he does? Do you seriously for a single moment believe that none of his customers are not fully aware of how he repairs their goods, robbing Peter to pay Paul by using chips removed from duff boards, replacing corroded tracks and pads with wires etc.

And do you seriously believe that he is charging his customers for repairs which do not work, he gives warranties on his work, he also makes no attempt to disguise the fact that he has a YouTube channel, in fact I think if you watch his videos, that his YouTube awards are hanging up on the wall. He is not one of these shady companies operating out of a garden shed somewhere, he has proper business premises and a professional website which lists what he does and explains  https://www.rossmanngroup.com/.

I 100% know some of his repairs don’t work. I know this because I have seen machines which have been repaired using the same methods and seen memtest86 run on them for several hours. A few memory errors here and there. That’s enough to fuck disk encryption entirely or trash your stuff. But it’s also enough to make it look like it works to get it out of the shop.

Modern PC is a whole bunch of GHz level transmission lines which you don’t want to fuck with.

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

Yep, I still think that you just got a bad one, hell every manufacturer out there is more than capable of making the odd rogue product now and then, but that doesn't mean all of them are, my two T12's have been made up in a similar vain to how mnementh prescribes, controllers from Quicko and Tsger, assembled in the recommended enclosures and using the PSU's from those companies and I have 2 very reliable and enjoyable irons that suit my workload very nicely. If I was making a living from them, then yes, I'd spend the extra money on a MetCal or similar. That being said of course, if you watch very carefully in a lot of Chinese factory videos you will spot lots of T12 irons being used in a production setting, so they clearly think that they are upto the heavy workload imposed on them, but as always YMMV.

The fact I got a bad one is the issue. I’d rather pay for some better QC.

[Specmaster]

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

For gymnastic Soldering a 3S Lipo DC-DC boost box and a TS100 takes a lot of beating.

I really don't want 'another' project as the current list is way to long so a proper no fuss tool is needed. Even the manual knob twirled Aoyue works for 90% on my needs but its not as stable or gutsy as I want sometimes so the TS100 gets pulled from the gear bag as it does better because of the tip.

You can also get gas powered irons that can be used anywhere as long as your gas canister has gas.

[Specmaster]

I think I'll just leave this coffee here......... Perfectly safe, as I already knew it would be because I've done it many times, for those that say you couldn't, just how big is your coffee mug, rather should I say bucket

I have no idea what you're on aboot... but my hp has the built-in cupholder. 

mnem

, all joking aside, a while ago there was a TV commercial made which actually showed a couple of old ladies doing just that with their CD drive on a music centre 

[mansaxel]

He’s selling the repair industry as a lie which is getting a lot of attention.

Our laptops at home are living a quite OK life -- OK, they might need new batteries, but that is a wear item. To me, they're not at the core of the right to repair problem.

The trouble is all the other stuff, things that do not have a top tier in the market for 6 months and then are replaced. The problem  lies with the game consoles, with the tractor, the handheld mixer, the microwave, and so on. Things that are treated either like "rental service" (the tractor) or like disposables. (the rest).

One can argue for screen replacement on phones and tablets, that is a big part of our repair budget, and it should be easier to do, and one should not be left to scrounging for dodgy repair units on Aliexpress, and that borders on the laptop issue. 

It means I'm all for your take on the design for repair idea, where possible. And design for use. Sadly, MIL-C 26482 sockets don't fit well on tablets. (but the MagSafe would!)

In this context I must send some praise too. Bosch-Siemens Haushaltsgeräte, the white goods and appliances maker, have a very comprehensive spare part service; they sell to anyone, and they have spares for 25+ year old devices. (because a mixer has that long an useful life -- I've inherited  my mothers, she bought it like 33 years ago, and it is like new. ) Parts are insanely expensive, of course, but better than buying new crap that won't survive a third of the old ones life.

[mnementh]

Guys, why are you bashing Rossman for doing what he does? Do you seriously for a single moment believe that none of his customers are not fully aware of how he repairs their goods, robbing Peter to pay Paul by using chips removed from duff boards, replacing corroded tracks and pads with wires etc.

And do you seriously believe that he is charging his customers for repairs which do not work, he gives warranties on his work, he also makes no attempt to disguise the fact that he has a YouTube channel, in fact I think if you watch his videos, that his YouTube awards are hanging up on the wall. He is not one of these shady companies operating out of a garden shed somewhere, he has proper business premises and a professional website which lists what he does and explains  https://www.rossmanngroup.com/.

It's the way he uses false equivalencies to sell everything he does; as if he were somehow the vanguard of the "Right to Repair" movement when in fact he's just another pitch-man selling his services. He uses the muck-raking he does to cast Apple as a villain, when the bottom line is most of the time you simply cannot do a proper repair on the kind of stuff Apple makes and still have the product Apple makes.

It is too fucking complex, too fucking miniaturized to make that possible. If you change the design to facilitate repair, you are not going to have the "6 pounds of sheer joy in the palm of your hand" product which Apple sells. You will have a product sortof like the iPwn, but much bigger in almost every dimension, and ugly AF.

Apple knows this. On a visceral level, so does Rossman. He's just using the controversy he creates with these false equivalencies to sell his services.

I never trust anyone who uses those sales tactics. EVER. And neither should you.

mnem
is  , no matter what the flavor.

[mansaxel]

This is why I buy the flat instruments. Nowhere to put my coffee and spill it otherwise.

Choose your colour.   

I prefer this one:

[beanflying]

Hey I only said earlier "Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life". If you enjoy that sort of shit, go for it. It's great fun. I enjoyed it until the second one blew up  . Just make sure you have a backup iron to fix the T12 with 

Edit: I will say that it was the best iron I could have used when I was half way up a ladder in a tree 

For gymnastic Soldering a 3S Lipo DC-DC boost box and a TS100 takes a lot of beating.

I really don't want 'another' project as the current list is way to long so a proper no fuss tool is needed. Even the manual knob twirled Aoyue works for 90% on my needs but its not as stable or gutsy as I want sometimes so the TS100 gets pulled from the gear bag as it does better because of the tip.

You can also get gas powered irons that can be used anywhere as long as your gas canister has gas.

Ever tried to do some 'actual electronic' Soldering with a Gas iron? Not an experience I ever want to have again before you get to the dangers of carrying Butane in a  vehicle in the Aussie climate or go near a plane to travel with one.

[bd139]

I used a gas Portasol Technik for a while. Yep!  It’s how you find out SRBP is flammable 

[mnementh]

Having owned and used several of the PortaSol branded butane-catalytic irons on a day-to-day basis, I can tell you a couple dirty little secrets; the useful service life of their tips is short, and they start to deteriorate quickly from first use. The catalytic elements burn out quickly, and the tip ceases to work nearly as well as when new with only a few hours run-time on it... and long before the catalyst is visibly consumed.

Add that to the fact they are essentially not in any way temp-controlled, and you have a tool which is at best okay for very occasional use on say.... trailer wiring (the exhaust from the catalyst works quite well for shrink-tubing), but for actual electronics repair is a burnt-up PCB waiting to happen.

I'd much rather keep a TS100 like bean does, or even a T12 handle plugged directly into a 4S LiPo flight pack in most cases of "quick & dirty for portable use", honestly. If I were going to build a portable iron, it would probably be a T12 OLED, powered by a CV/CC Buck/Boost converter, or a couple 3S-4S packs in series. With a CV/CC buck regulator.

mnem
 

[Saskia]

have a TS100 running off a lead acid battery and a step up converter.

[beanflying]

'Claimed' 250W boost converter but has been doing the TS100 job well in a compact shell and also lives in the bag. Kapton on the inside is because the coil has about 1mm clearance.

Includes the former non 3D printed bodge case too