Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[McBryce]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.


- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

[med6753]

I'm betting an HP something based upon the gray case. Certainly ain't Tek blue. 

[BU508A]

I'm betting an HP something based upon the gray case. Certainly ain't Tek blue. 

Same thing as your curtains aren't pink? 

[Specmaster]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

   This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go up to 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

I was mostly just agitatin'. 

Tho the 427A was a watershed portable meter due to crazy low circuit loading Dual-FET null-offset design, crazy high AC voltage frequency at that accuracy (something like 4MHz, IIRC) and HP's inclusion of their then state-of-the-art platinum taut-band meter movement.

EDIT - A little InfoDump: http://hpmemoryproject.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_14a.htm

mnem
 

Trouble with it being low loading on a DUT is that as a lot of us are involved in repairing of the older type of devices, many of the stated voltages at test points were measured with instruments of 20,000 opv so any voltage taken with the HP will not be anywhere near the declared and expected voltage as shown on the service manuals, so not always as useful as it could be.

[Specmaster]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

   This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go upto 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

It is not a VOM. It’s a FET voltmeter. So constant 10M impedance. Also for average responding AC it goes down to 10mV FSD and 2MHz which is fairly high!

Yeah, OK so its great for RF guys, but apart from the frequency range, a good DMM has better ranges and certainly better than 10M impedance. Only recently people where falling over themselves to say that DMM's were better all rounders 

Dude... in here... you're asking that question...? 



Also... the Avos, as awesome as they are... they're butt-ugly. And they don't match anything else on the bench. That means something in here, where many of us have a whole row of HP with front panels that match those from this family!

Personally, I'd rather have my old Micronta Dual-FET for anything needing a analog meter, even tho it's only a 3%-ish box; I know the meter well and know it to be more rugged than most FET designs, and every part in it is easy to find. 

mnem
 

Whatyamean Bro, butt ugly uh? Avo's are no more ugly than your Micronta Dual FET meter or a Simpson or any other meter of the era for that matter, they were designed to do a job of work, not win beauty contests FFS, besides, turn them upside down and the AVO not only smiles at you but could also be turned into a beautiful desk lamp that will always put you in a good mood because of its permanent smile beaming at ya, 

[nfmax]

None of that sort of thing went on here, the women worked in groups of 5 or 6 and each did certain parts of the assembly and then passed it onto the person her right, who would check the work before doing her own and so it went until the last in the group did a final inspection, then a performance test before sealing them in bags and packing into boxes. Each group only made bonus if their work passed test and then a further x% went onto more intensive testing and if any failed then the whole batch was frozen for more checking and that group never got their bonus. In that fashion the product had locked in QA at every step and it worked really well, like Med said about the lady cop, these women were equally sharp tongued with each other if one failed, they certainly knew all about 

Absoultely. Don't just fix the problem: fix the process!

[Brumby]

What I noticed was that it seemed the card reader was feeding multiple cards at the same time... but I think that was just a trick of the lighting, photography, etc.

Not sure aboot whether the cards were fed in the right way or not....? 

And shouldn't it have to read the entire stack in BEFORE any results came out the other end...?

Been a long time but yea, it should have read in the entire stack before the results came out. The rest of the card reader appeared to be working properly. And that card reader was super slow compared to the later models.

Not necessarily...  It depends on whether the input was spooled or not.

If spooled, then - yes.  All the cards will be read at the same speed, simply loading them up onto an intermediate medium, such as tape or disk.  This tape or disk file is then fed to the CPU for execution.

If not spooled, then the cards will be read in as, and when, the CPU requires them.  The system will run through the cards until a program is executed.  Typically the program could do a few things and then wants a data card, so it reads one and does something with it - then reads the next ... and so on.  The time between card reads is dependent on the time it takes for the program to process the data from that card and then request the next card.

Spooling is something that was commonplace when I started in IT in 1976, but there were some tasks which required a more basic level of operation - which did not have spooling.  You got to get a feeling of what the machine was doing ... and you soon appreciated the value of spooling.

[med6753]

What I noticed was that it seemed the card reader was feeding multiple cards at the same time... but I think that was just a trick of the lighting, photography, etc.

Not sure aboot whether the cards were fed in the right way or not....? 

And shouldn't it have to read the entire stack in BEFORE any results came out the other end...?

Been a long time but yea, it should have read in the entire stack before the results came out. The rest of the card reader appeared to be working properly. And that card reader was super slow compared to the later models.

Not necessarily...  It depends on whether the input was spooled or not.

If spooled, then - yes.  All the cards will be read at the same speed, simply loading them up onto an intermediate medium, such as tape or disk.  This tape or disk file is then fed to the CPU for execution.

If not spooled, then the cards will be read in as, and when, the CPU requires them.  The system will run through the cards until a program is executed.  Typically the program could do a few things and then wants a data card, so it reads one and does something with it - then reads the next ... and so on.  The time between card reads is dependent on the time it takes for the program to process the data from that card and then request the next card.

Spooling is something that was commonplace when I started in IT in 1976, but there were some tasks which required a more basic level of operation - which did not have spooling.  You got to get a feeling of what the machine was doing ... and you soon appreciated the value of spooling.

You're right. I forgot all about spooling. I was never an operator nor an IT guy. Just what I observed while working on a dead mainframe in a computer room. And it was common that there were computer operators who's sole job was to maintain the punch cards. Reading them into the readers, cataloging, storing, etc. And just one mangled punch card could ruin your day big time. 

[Robert763]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.


- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

Solartron frequency response analyzer 1170 series.

[Robert763]

The UK TE rental and used TE companies used to get directors and Prop masters coming round and hiring kit purely on appearence. Good little earner according to a a couple of dealers I know.

[McBryce]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.


- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

Solartron frequency response analyzer 1170 series.

Well done. I was with BU508A, I thought it was a HP, but the handles looked wrong.

McBryce.

[Robert763]

yeh I'm a sad TEA addict.

[med6753]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.


- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

Solartron frequency response analyzer 1170 series.

Well done. I was with BU508A, I thought it was a HP, but the handles looked wrong.

McBryce.

It was me who said HP, not BU508A. He's still hung up on my pink curtains. 

[BU508A]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.


- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

Solartron frequency response analyzer 1170 series.

Well done. I was with BU508A, I thought it was a HP, but the handles looked wrong.

McBryce.

The credits are going to med6753. He assumed, it could be an HP boat anchor.

[factory]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.


- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

Solartron frequency response analyzer 1170 series.

An older too with number readout bulbs, before it got updated with that 7-segment LED rubbish. 

David

[Brumby]

You're right. I forgot all about spooling. I was never an operator nor an IT guy. Just what I observed while working on a dead mainframe in a computer room. And it was common that there were computer operators who's sole job was to maintain the punch cards. Reading them into the readers, cataloging, storing, etc. And just one mangled punch card could ruin your day big time. 

Yes - care in handling punch cards was an essential skill - but in my day, it wasn't as critical as it was in the preceding generation.

That was the days when a program was compiled from source code on cards and created an object deck - punched cards with the hex machine code.  These were pretty much completely unreadable to the human eye and if you dropped this deck, you could play 500 or 1,000 (or more) pick-up - but getting this back together in the right sequence was the challenge.  Cue the 082 card sorter (well, that's the model I used) - and you just sorted on the sequence number you had punched in columns 73-80.  (You did specify sequence numbers in your compile options, didn't you?!!)

This will all sound rather unbelievable to the youngsters - but, it is all part of computing history.

[factory]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go upto 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

You forgot the peeling meter scales on the older ones.


Did you want more AC volts? then you need this accessory which will be good for up to 25kV. 


David

[med6753]

In the rare instances where the IBM Customer Engineers couldn't fix a mainframe they would call us at the factory and one of us would travel there to assist. My turn in the barrel. New Jersey Department of Taxation and Finance in Trenton, NJ. While I was there I witnessed a major FUBAR by the computer operators. You know how printed checks have an embossed sequence number on them? Well when the operator loads a new stack of checks into the high speed chain printer he is supposed to enter that first sequence number. And the number printed has to match the embossed sequence number. Well guess what? After printing thousands of tax refund checks the numbers were off. All had to be shit canned.  And talk about the stink it created in that room.  Luckily I had fixed the other mainframe (after 3 days) and got the hell out of there. 

That's the same trip where I almost got arrested too. But that's for another time. 

   

[Saskia]

oh, I got one for you ...

[McBryce]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.


- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

Solartron frequency response analyzer 1170 series.

Well done. I was with BU508A, I thought it was a HP, but the handles looked wrong.

McBryce.

The credits are going to med6753. He assumed, it could be an HP boat anchor.

Oops, sorry to both of you.

McBryce.

[Robert763]

Watched "Never Say Never Again" last night. Good to see that Seán Connery was also a TE fan. Couldn't pass a meter without wanting to play with the buttons.
But what instrument is it?

McBryce.



- Note to 007 Fanatics: Yes, I know you don't consider it a true James Bond film which is why I didn't mention the name.

Solartron frequency response analyzer 1170 series.

Well done. I was with BU508A, I thought it was a HP, but the handles looked wrong.

McBryce.

The credits are going to med6753. He assumed, it could be an HP boat anchor.

Oops, sorry to both of you.

McBryce.

What no credit for getting it right 

[BU508A]

What no credit for getting it right 

This Diligent Star goes to you:



 

[shakalnokturn]

Not until you give the serial number within 5% 

[Cerebus]

Squirrels, we don't have them in NZ only blinken Aussie import possums !

A dear departed friend Jonny S ( S because nobody could pronounce his Polish name) told me of his formative years lying on the ground popping them out of the tallest trees in his homeland with a .22 rifle. Windy days were the best challenge he said where you could only fire when the branch they were on was at its greatest deflection.
Not sure if he shot them for skins or to eat ! 

I used to use a rifle range in Watford that, being almost urban, was only rated for .22. However, it did have two approved 100 yard firing points, a very rare thing in the smallbore world. Getting inside the 8 ring was a challenge on a day with any wind at all, and on a properly windy day you considered you were doing very well if you could get a 4 inch group somewhere inside the 5 ring (180mm, inward gauging). Hopefully your mate was shooting a little closer than that.

[mnementh]

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go up to 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

I was mostly just agitatin'. 

Tho the 427A was a watershed portable meter due to crazy low circuit loading Dual-FET null-offset design, crazy high AC voltage frequency at that accuracy (something like 4MHz, IIRC) and HP's inclusion of their then state-of-the-art platinum taut-band meter movement.

EDIT - A little InfoDump: http://hpmemoryproject.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_14a.htm

mnem
 

Trouble with it being low loading on a DUT is that as a lot of us are involved in repairing of the older type of devices, many of the stated voltages at test points were measured with instruments of 20,000 opv so any voltage taken with the HP will not be anywhere near the declared and expected voltage as shown on the service manuals, so not always as useful as it could be.

Again... you're trying to apply common sense to TEA. A losing proposition at best.

mnem
"This way lies madness."