Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Saskia]

That's how we look when we get old ...

[Specmaster]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go upto 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

[Cerebus]

Holy shit it's my ex 

Which would make your ex-brother in law the Honey Monster?

[mnementh]

Hey Med and Mnem, I've found an All American Redhead for you guys:-   

mnem
Okay... maybe not that furry...

[mnementh]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Oh shit!

don't worry spec.  that guy is obviously all hat and no cattle.   he hates house-pets of any sort.  where is he gonna get the necessary ingredients?   suppose if he is serious i could mail him some.  (does dog or cat matter?)

EDIT   never mind..... it just occurred to me that he means to use his own.   don't you people have laws over there?

Why am I thinking of this scenario...? 

mnem
Well, okay, there is that... 

[mnementh]

   No, this is NOT any kind of esoteric ting-a-ling stuff. These are music collaborations from Sina, the female drummer which has been mentioned here occasionally.

So what if it was...? Not like I'm gonna judge...   

mnem
“Listen, three eyes... don't you try to out-weird me; I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal.”

[bd139]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go upto 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

It is not a VOM. It’s a FET voltmeter. So constant 10M impedance. Also for average responding AC it goes down to 10mV FSD and 2MHz which is fairly high!

[mnementh]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

   This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go up to 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

I was mostly just agitatin'. 

Tho the 427A was a watershed portable meter due to crazy low circuit loading Dual-FET null-offset design, crazy high AC voltage frequency at that accuracy (something like 4MHz, IIRC) and HP's inclusion of their then state-of-the-art platinum taut-band meter movement.

EDIT - A little InfoDump: http://hpmemoryproject.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_14a.htm

mnem
 

[mnementh]

So... is two of them twice as wrong...? Or is it Wrong²...?

mnem

[Specmaster]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go upto 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

It is not a VOM. It’s a FET voltmeter. So constant 10M impedance. Also for average responding AC it goes down to 10mV FSD and 2MHz which is fairly high!

Yeah, OK so its great for RF guys, but apart from the frequency range, a good DMM has better ranges and certainly better than 10M impedance. Only recently people where falling over themselves to say that DMM's were better all rounders 

[0culus]

Trying to explain your TEA activities to someone who is “non-technical” can be tough. For years I've shown and tried to explain to the Lady Cop what I've done or what I'm working on and her response is puzzled looks. But while she doesn't totally understand it she at least appreciates it and encourages me when I tell her I'm having issues repairing something.

But when it comes to explaining to her coworkers or friends what I do she's at a total loss. She just can't convey what TEA is...

Oh, there's a simple explanation... we're all nucking futs. 

But no; seriously. I've successfully explained it to my wife and several of her friends thusly:

"Okay... you know how some guys love to collect and restore antique cars or vintage tools for the nostalgia and history of the thing? Well, for engineering nerds, that urge exists for classic test equipment. They are our vintage tools. You see that scope right there? It was in use at NASA when they were designing and flying the Space Shuttle. It might have had something to do with all those historic missions."

*blink-blink*

"You see this crusty old signal generator? Its grandfather was one of the ones that made HP a household name. Without that signal generator, Disney couldn't have made Fantasia the amazing piece of musical history it is. Without HP and Tektronix, the modern world... all the technology we take for granted... would be completely different, and we would probably be decades behind where we are now. Using these old instruments... handling the same tools that made all those great advances possible... it is our way of communing with our engineer ancestors."

"Okaaayyy... so it's like collecting antiques. I get that. Just don't spend the house payment on it, okayyy?"

Not a perfect explanation. But at least enough to grok what we're all aboot.

mnem
moo...?

I've tried similar explanations but it doesn't seem to get through. She's only 2 years younger than me so she grew up in the age where TV's, radios, etc went from vacuum tubes to transistor. But to her, since she was just an "end user", it's completely foreign and transparent to her. So while she recognizes that the stuff is old that's about the extent of it.

An excellent example of this is the movie "Hidden Figures". If you don't know what it's about go read up on it. Anyway, the woman in this scene successfully programs an IBM 7090 computer that NASA bought but had no idea how to use it. In the background is either a Type 535A or 545A on a cart. I can't find the actual scene where she connects the scope to the 7090. We watched that movie together and afterwards I explained what she was doing. Lady Cop's response? I knew you would know exactly what she was doing but I don't get it.

     

Edit...click on the link to go directly to YouTube and it will play.

I was reading a thing, maybe on TekScopes, about the guy who was the technical advisor on that movie. He provided the scope (545A iirc) but they didn't like the trace so the trace you see in the movie was added in post.

[mnementh]

   Welp... for good or evil, it has a roof so it is now actually a building. All that remains is to build a floor/base, slide it up on there, and hang the doors.

mnem
Ouchies, Mister Sqweek...

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have build the floor/base first and then built it directly onto that 

Oh, you just HAD TO bring common sense into it, din'ncha?

No, seriously... every one of these kits I ever built came with a metal base kit in the bottom, over which you lay plywood for the floor. It is the last thing installed (well, I wait until the whole thing is built and in its final resting place to hang the doors so they're level & square); this kit didn't come with. 

It may be because it is a 8x10 kit and all my others were 10x10 (wouldn't have fit), or it may be Canadian production, or may be something that turned to vapor in the decade or so since I built my last. 

The floor frame kit now costs an extra $120; I can frame it out with cedar around the perimeter for $96. Plus it raises the interior another 2 in above the snow melt, and will provide support for the shed when I want to drag it up on a trailer come moving time. With what I've spent on it, I'm def takin' it with.

So yeah... another afternoon spent framing out a wooden base now will pay off pretty well in 10 months or so. We won't talk aboot the fact it's a bit of a surprise after the fact.  It's really not that big a deal... the whole thing weighs ~80 kilos; my son and I have already lifted it bodily to move it back up against the fence after doing work that needed the ladder behind.

mnem
*drops back & punts*

[mnementh]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

   This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go upto 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

It is not a VOM. It’s a FET voltmeter. So constant 10M impedance. Also for average responding AC it goes down to 10mV FSD and 2MHz which is fairly high!

Yeah, OK so its great for RF guys, but apart from the frequency range, a good DMM has better ranges and certainly better than 10M impedance. Only recently people where falling over themselves to say that DMM's were better all rounders 

Dude... in here... you're asking that question...? 



Also... the Avos, as awesome as they are... they're butt-ugly. And they don't match anything else on the bench. That means something in here, where many of us have a whole row of HP with front panels that match those from this family!

Personally, I'd rather have my old Micronta Dual-FET for anything needing a analog meter, even tho it's only a 3%-ish box; I know the meter well and know it to be more rugged than most FET designs, and every part in it is easy to find. 

mnem
 

[0culus]

Trying to explain your TEA activities to someone who is “non-technical” can be tough. For years I've shown and tried to explain to the Lady Cop what I've done or what I'm working on and her response is puzzled looks. But while she doesn't totally understand it she at least appreciates it and encourages me when I tell her I'm having issues repairing something.

But when it comes to explaining to her coworkers or friends what I do she's at a total loss. She just can't convey what TEA is...

Oh, there's a simple explanation... we're all nucking futs. 

But no; seriously. I've successfully explained it to my wife and several of her friends thusly:

"Okay... you know how some guys love to collect and restore antique cars or vintage tools for the nostalgia and history of the thing? Well, for engineering nerds, that urge exists for classic test equipment. They are our vintage tools. You see that scope right there? It was in use at NASA when they were designing and flying the Space Shuttle. It might have had something to do with all those historic missions."

*blink-blink*

"You see this crusty old signal generator? Its grandfather was one of the ones that made HP a household name. Without that signal generator, Disney couldn't have made Fantasia the amazing piece of musical history it is. Without HP and Tektronix, the modern world... all the technology we take for granted... would be completely different, and we would probably be decades behind where we are now. Using these old instruments... handling the same tools that made all those great advances possible... it is our way of communing with our engineer ancestors."

"Okaaayyy... so it's like collecting antiques. I get that. Just don't spend the house payment on it, okayyy?"

Not a perfect explanation. But at least enough to grok what we're all aboot.

mnem
moo...?

I've tried similar explanations but it doesn't seem to get through. She's only 2 years younger than me so she grew up in the age where TV's, radios, etc went from vacuum tubes to transistor. But to her, since she was just an "end user", it's completely foreign and transparent to her. So while she recognizes that the stuff is old that's about the extent of it.

An excellent example of this is the movie "Hidden Figures". If you don't know what it's about go read up on it. Anyway, the woman in this scene successfully programs an IBM 7090 computer that NASA bought but had no idea how to use it. In the background is either a Type 535A or 545A on a cart. I can't find the actual scene where she connects the scope to the 7090. We watched that movie together and afterwards I explained what she was doing. Lady Cop's response? I knew you would know exactly what she was doing but I don't get it.

     

Edit...click on the link to go directly to YouTube and it will play.

I was reading a thing, maybe on TekScopes, about the guy who was the technical advisor on that movie. He provided the scope (545A iirc) but they didn't like the trace so the trace you see in the movie was added in post.

Some further info:



https://vintagetek.org/tektronix-in-movies-shows/

[cyclin_al]

An excellent example of this is the movie "Hidden Figures". If you don't know what it's about go read up on it. Anyway, the woman in this scene successfully programs an IBM 7090 computer that NASA bought but had no idea how to use it. In the background is either a Type 535A or 545A on a cart. I can't find the actual scene where she connects the scope to the 7090. We watched that movie together and afterwards I explained what she was doing. Lady Cop's response? I knew you would know exactly what she was doing but I don't get it.

That sounds like a very interesting movie to share with SWMBO.  Plus, it would come as a surprise, rather than her suggesting what movie to watch.  Thankfully, she does make suggestions from Marvel Comics, various Star Treks among many others that we will never find the time to watch.

Certainly SWMBO's mother is NOT one of those ladies from Hidden Figures.  Also, this is where reputation as the geek in the family is a disadvantage.  I got the dreaded phone call that both her computers were completely non-functional.  I knew this was going to happen, hence I have made recent references to a shiny disk for OS installation.

First up is her old "archive computer".  This thing is an old AMD Phenom processor, but more importantly, the hard drive contains archives of all past computers put together by a computer shop that scrapped those said past computers.   That shiny disk was a Win10 (that is what is currently licensed on the machine) installation DVD.  The machine booted eventually fine from the DVD.  Taking a look around, it appears that archives of Win95, Win98, WinXP and Win7 all got copied into C:\windows.  Instead of taking any risks with the archives, I installed a SSD with Win10 and got that machine running.  The hard drive is a project that I do not want to take any responsibility for any data losses.  I know I will get stuck with searching for data files; so my plan is to copy from that disk and never ever modify any files on it.  The potential wrath of a mother-in-law is not something I will intentionally draw in my direction. 

Second computer is her "writing computer" for that book that I have doubts will ever be published.  The story I heard was that the duration of time the computer would operate before freezing up was getting shorter and shorter until it would no longer boot up at all.  Of course, after playing a game of 20 30 questions, it turns out there was an error message that the ADATA SSD was reporting drive errors.  I assumed that meant putting in a new SSD would get this computer up and running.  The biggest challenge would be data recovery of the manuscript 4 years web browser history from the old SSD.  It is always worse than assumptions.  With a new SSD installed, the machine boots fine and then freezes up after 10 minutes.  Rebooting immediately results in running fine and then freezing up after 5 minutes.  That made me think of overheating.  Sure enough, there is a small heat-sink over top something on the motherboard that is very hot to the touch, but not hot enough to burn.  Will have to look into this further.  Any suggestions on a software that can log or display on-board temperatures or parameters that might help in narrowing down the issue?  This one will not be allowed to be stuffed into the crawlspace of doom (also, the crawlspace is where the electronics bench is going to move to, but that is another story).

Edit: Does this mean I feel a bit like Saskia these days....?

[cyclin_al]

   Welp... for good or evil, it has a roof so it is now actually a building. All that remains is to build a floor/base, slide it up on there, and hang the doors.

mnem
Ouchies, Mister Sqweek...

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have build the floor/base first and then built it directly onto that 

Oh, you just HAD TO bring common sense into it, din'ncha?

No, seriously... every one of these kits I ever built came with a metal base kit in the bottom, over which you lay plywood for the floor. It is the last thing installed (well, I wait until the whole thing is built and in its final resting place to hang the doors so they're level & square); this kit didn't come with. 

It may be because it is a 8x10 kit and all my others were 10x10 (wouldn't have fit), or it may be Canadian production, or may be something that turned to vapor in the decade or so since I built my last. 

The floor frame kit now costs an extra $120; I can frame it out with cedar around the perimeter for $96. Plus it raises the interior another 2 in above the snow melt, and will provide support for the shed when I want to drag it up on a trailer come moving time. With what I've spent on it, I'm def takin' it with.

So yeah... another afternoon spent framing out a wooden base now will pay off pretty well in 10 months or so. We won't talk aboot the fact it's a bit of a surprise after the fact.  It's really not that big a deal... the whole thing weighs ~80 kilos; my son and I have already lifted it bodily to move it back up against the fence after doing work that needed the ladder behind.

mnem
*drops back & punts*

Wooden floor?  That is way too fancy for the GWN.  Seriously though, I suspect the ground in your area will heave a lot with the freeze and thaw cycles of the weather.  The normal Canadian approach is to lay out a floor of heavy patio stones (both large and thick as well so they do not get cracked) and be done with it.  Canadian fancy would be to pour a 10x10 concrete slab; not a particularly good option when you are renting.  Good thinking about staying above the snow melt; common practice is 4" higher than the surrounding grade if possible (more for larger structures).

[bd139]

...BTW to all UK eBayers: that HP 427A is MINE. If anyone outbids me I'm going to leave a bag of flaming poop on your doorstep

Well I didn't outbid you I just got the first bid in 

This one...? 

mnem
Oooooh... low hours... must bid...

I don't understand why 427A's are so sought after, it only has a 2% DC accuracy, hell an Avo 8 MkV has 1% and it doesn't require a battery that is unobtainable and the AC volts only go upto 300 when Avo does 3Kv and my TMK and Kyoritsu both will go to 5Kv? Am I missing something here?

It is not a VOM. It’s a FET voltmeter. So constant 10M impedance. Also for average responding AC it goes down to 10mV FSD and 2MHz which is fairly high!

Yeah, OK so its great for RF guys, but apart from the frequency range, a good DMM has better ranges and certainly better than 10M impedance. Only recently people where falling over themselves to say that DMM's were better all rounders 

Yeah it’s the best of the last generation of stuff really. DMMs are far better but this one is a cool one

[Neomys Sapiens]

I've got the TV on the background, and an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation has just started. Just before it the continuity announcer told us what was coming, but with a little slip. Instead of Jean-Like Picard wrestling with the Cardassians, apparently in this episide he's wresting with the Kardashians, Poor sod...

Picard: Ladies, please calm down! I would never stoop that low! My name is NOT Kirk.

Dr. Crusher, Deanna Troy, Kira Nerys (and maybe some more): Oh, come on! Showtime! Showtime! Showtime!.....

[MathWizard]

If you only use your modern DMM once and a while, what hapen's to the calibration and aging(or lack of) in general ?

[Saskia]

One for bd ...

[Zucca]

If you only use your modern DMM once and a while, what hapen's to the calibration and aging(or lack of) in general ?

I think there is simple answer, go and look at the metrology section in this forum....
You should check if you equipment in spec as suggested in the manual. Failing to do so it's a roll of a dice.... I wish you and me luck, we are on the same boat.

[bd139]

One for bd ...

I hope the furry little bastard is taxidermy 

[med6753]

One for bd ...

 

[bd139]

This is cheering me up 

[tautech]

Squirrels, we don't have them in NZ only blinken Aussie import possums !

A dear departed friend Jonny S ( S because nobody could pronounce his Polish name) told me of his formative years lying on the ground popping them out of the tallest trees in his homeland with a .22 rifle. Windy days were the best challenge he said where you could only fire when the branch they were on was at its greatest deflection.
Not sure if he shot them for skins or to eat !