Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 16736176 times)

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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71275 on: October 05, 2020, 08:39:55 pm »
OK this is not really TEA-related, but most of us are used to handling really big .CSV files - unlike, it seems, the good people at Public Health England:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/05/how-excel-may-have-caused-loss-of-16000-covid-tests-in-england

We also understand the importance of "backup", "multiple copies of important documents", and other advanced concepts.

And pen-and-paper accountants understood the idea of control totals, to make sure that you hadn't lost a pile of documents down the back of the sofa.

Excel, inserted anywhere in the middle of a data chain is good enough reason of itself to call an immediate halt to that process and force a review and audit of that chain before something fucks up big time.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71276 on: October 05, 2020, 08:46:45 pm »
From the "Nothing To See Here; Move Along..." Dept...

Just returned from an eyeball QSO with 25 CPS at a Tim Horton's not too far from my new place. Our meeting was... productive.  >:D

mnem

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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71277 on: October 05, 2020, 09:05:58 pm »
OK this is not really TEA-related, but most of us are used to handling really big .CSV files - unlike, it seems, the good people at Public Health England:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/05/how-excel-may-have-caused-loss-of-16000-covid-tests-in-england

We also understand the importance of "backup", "multiple copies of important documents", and other advanced concepts.

And pen-and-paper accountants understood the idea of control totals, to make sure that you hadn't lost a pile of documents down the back of the sofa.

Excel, inserted anywhere in the middle of a data chain is good enough reason of itself to call an immediate halt to that process and force a review and audit of that chain before something fucks up big time.

It's OK to view data in Excel, but it isn't really a document management system for a large organisation!  :D
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71278 on: October 05, 2020, 09:13:34 pm »
To note the PS is 450KHz as well. That has some advantages as the power supply is fairly simple (MOSFET class C amplifier + SWR bridge) if it goes wonky

The T12 has the equivalent of the tip and the cartridge in one unit and the handle separately. It works pretty well but the engineering tolerances of the handles are terrible as are the contact mounts. I was not impressed. For 20% more cost, they could have put together a 100% better iron that would literally shat on the competition on price/performance. But as always they missed the mark in the race to the bottom.

EDITED to clarify:  bd - as much as I love my MetCal, the OLED T12 controller is not the POS you keep painting it to be. It does have its plus side.

I've said before that there is a huge variation in QC on these things; especially the handles. It's unreasonable to lump the entire species in together because you got one poorly designed handle and one controller that couldn't handle short-circuit conditions. In the OLED T12's defense, short-circuit protection is very difficult to implement here because of the way the T12 system monitors temp between swings of the PWM cycle. And their firmware implementation beats everything Hakko has EVER made hands-down.

Buy a genuine Hakko handle and you can be sure to get a good socket in it. Or buy 2 or 3 cheap handles for $7 each and chuck the crap ones. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

I'm going to be thoroughly frank but no they are dangerous, poorly manufactured crap.

That was the result of my thorough evaluation of the design when I actually considered importing thousands of the things and reselling them here in Europe. Yes I had a legitimate business plan. They fit a really good niche. They are cheap and pretty good when they work.

BUT the negatives didn't make commercial sense because I couldn't overcome the following issues:

1. The mains inlet mounting is ridiculously dangerous.
2. The earthing is ridiculously dangerous.
3. The handle tolerances are so poor that the failure rate is likely too high to be commercially viable.
4. The shipped power supply module in my mains one missed all the common mode filtering that should have been in there.
5. The cabling in the handpiece is borderline inadequate for the load.
6. The tip lifetime (element and sensor, not the actual metal) is really poor.
7. The default failure modes all turn the tip into a glowing orange fire starter.
8. The shitty encoder moves the unit around when you poke it (usability)
9. The secondary failure mode is exploding MOSFET.
10. Default set up isn't ESD safe.
11. EMC?? Bwuhahahaha

Just no. It's a shitty bit of low ball engineering. If they threw some more effort in, it'd be worth it but this doesn't cut it. Nowhere near.

This is alpha quality hardware. Perhaps in a few years when they've rounded off the cut corners...

Again... you're faulting the controller (the only part I give flying fuck about) for the crimes committed by people trying to turn the thing into a commercial product and cutting corners with cheap clone tips (obvi, if you're getting 10 tips for $22, QC is gonna be an issue... I've always said you should buy genuine Hakko for the tips you use most) and cheapest possible clone handles (same caveats) and cheapest possible commodity SMPS.

The reason these blow up AND are a firetrap is because the people making the "retail product" pair the controller up with the cheapest POS SMPS they could put in a box. That is NOT the fault of the controller or its design; the folks behind the open-source design repeatedly tell you to use a CV/CC power source like I did for this very reason. Then all your laundry list of evils turns into a "power-cycle it; figure out why it stopped working" problem. As I said before; the way these controllers work makes it very difficult to implement short-circuit protection in the controller; it needs to be in the power supply.

You're blaming the open-source project for the sins of China-direct manufacturing shitstains. Lets put the blame directly where it belongs; those ignorant resellers who pair it with a shitty SMPS with no short-circuit protection. The people who designed the controller did so with high goals for a bit hobbyist gear; they were not designing to a price but for pure performance and usability.

Here's primarily where I disagree with you: If you use a decent power supply and a decent handle with it, even these cheaply-manufactured controllers can give you a decent soldering station. But you have to be smarter than they are.

mnem
 :-/O
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 09:46:04 pm by mnementh »
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71279 on: October 05, 2020, 09:41:45 pm »
Cerebus is on the mark as usual. The PS series I picked because this was a production iron rather than a rework iron. It has three parts: the handpiece, cartridge and tip, each replaceable on the fly. The tips take 5 seconds to swap out. The cartridge 20 seconds and the handpiece about 30 seconds. The whole thing is designed to not cost you time.
Ya wot ?  :-//
Who TF doesn't have a pair of pliers handy for changing out a hot Hakko tip and be going again in a minute ?  :box:
Really, is our hobby time that precious.  ::)



I don't use pliers. I have a MetCal-style silicone potholder mat like they include with their stations. On my T12, I hot-swap literally as fast as I can pull the old one out and plug new one in, then heatup time is less than 15 seconds. And my controller detects the different tip based on resistance/response curve and and adjusts the PID profile to match.

mnem
 :popcorn:
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 09:49:01 pm by mnementh »
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71280 on: October 05, 2020, 09:45:53 pm »
apple buried the plans for a children ipod after realizing iTouch Kids was a somewhat improper name ...
 
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Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71281 on: October 05, 2020, 09:46:50 pm »
Yay! At least one of the research requests directed at DHL was successful: the Suhner 12.4GHz divider showed up today. Also some Diazed (E-thread fuse holders) current measurement adaptors (regular and mammoth size. So I'm down to ONE missing parcel again.

Nothing new besides this. Except that I have realized that having my Belzer Ohrengreifer ready won't help, as I will not encounter BU directly in near time. So I'm trying to fit a ear-grabbing and -pulling mechanism into the package which will contain the Transistorvoltmeter for BU508. Until now, I only have managed to grab and pull my own nose once.
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71282 on: October 05, 2020, 09:48:06 pm »
apple buried the plans for a children ipod after realizing iTouch Kids was a somewhat improper name ...
But that does not stop them from marketing every product they make directly to kids at the same time as they market to their parents...  :o

mnem
*poot*
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71283 on: October 05, 2020, 09:52:36 pm »
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71284 on: October 05, 2020, 09:57:30 pm »
my boss told me today that my higher ups decided to transfer me from finance to infrastructure.
Naturally no one asked me about my opinion ... (they did not ask my current boss either ...)

except for the potential/likely future boss. Big plus for him.

I think they should give me a raise ...

Wait, I thought that is where your adversaries are?
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71285 on: October 05, 2020, 09:59:00 pm »
@Neomys Sapiens   https://www.amazon.de/Spro-Fischgreifer-Fish-Gripper-4702241/dp/B00QTA9CX6/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fischgreifer&qid=1601934695&s=sports&sr=1-4   here's your ear puller and twister in an improvise, adapt, overcome package.



Hmmmm... from one page over on the same site.

mnem
 :o
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71286 on: October 05, 2020, 10:00:11 pm »
OK this is not really TEA-related, but most of us are used to handling really big .CSV files - unlike, it seems, the good people at Public Health England:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/05/how-excel-may-have-caused-loss-of-16000-covid-tests-in-england

We also understand the importance of "backup", "multiple copies of important documents", and other advanced concepts.

And it sure ain't difficult. My documents are backed up to an external hard drive as well as the Cloud.

Update: the 6AQ5 tube arrived at my PO this afternoon. So I should get it tomorrow.
I think this was a deliberate error to message the figures but someone unearthed it so this cover was concocted to cover the error.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71287 on: October 05, 2020, 10:09:48 pm »
my boss told me today that my higher ups decided to transfer me from finance to infrastructure.
Naturally no one asked me about my opinion ... (they did not ask my current boss either ...)

except for the potential/likely future boss. Big plus for him.

I think they should give me a raise ...

Wait, I thought that is where your adversaries are?

I do not really have any say in that matter.
can't say more on an open channel. and the ultraviolet priority channel is currently not available.
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71288 on: October 05, 2020, 10:14:01 pm »
OK this is not really TEA-related, but most of us are used to handling really big .CSV files - unlike, it seems, the good people at Public Health England:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/05/how-excel-may-have-caused-loss-of-16000-covid-tests-in-england

We also understand the importance of "backup", "multiple copies of important documents", and other advanced concepts.

And it sure ain't difficult. My documents are backed up to an external hard drive as well as the Cloud.

Update: the 6AQ5 tube arrived at my PO this afternoon. So I should get it tomorrow.
I think this was a deliberate error to message the figures but someone unearthed it so this cover was concocted to cover the error.

Naa, I've seen the horrors committed with grossly inappropriate use of Excel spreadsheets in industry too many times. It's the tool that every muppet who's ever used as computer thinks they understand and they're prepared to build anything out of it. You could destroy industry worldwide tomorrow by shipping out a new revision of Excel with auto-recalculation turned off.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71289 on: October 05, 2020, 10:20:52 pm »
OK this is not really TEA-related, but most of us are used to handling really big .CSV files - unlike, it seems, the good people at Public Health England:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/05/how-excel-may-have-caused-loss-of-16000-covid-tests-in-england

We also understand the importance of "backup", "multiple copies of important documents", and other advanced concepts.

And it sure ain't difficult. My documents are backed up to an external hard drive as well as the Cloud.

Update: the 6AQ5 tube arrived at my PO this afternoon. So I should get it tomorrow.
I think this was a deliberate error to message the figures but someone unearthed it so this cover was concocted to cover the error.

Naa, I've seen the horrors committed with grossly inappropriate use of Excel spreadsheets in industry too many times. It's the tool that every muppet who's ever used as computer thinks they understand and they're prepared to build anything out of it. You could destroy industry worldwide tomorrow by shipping out a new revision of Excel with auto-recalculation turned off.
Yes, I know, I used to use it extensively myself, but it also be a suitable "get out of jail free card", a sort of oven ready excuse if the missing data was uncovered maybe  >:D :-//
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71290 on: October 05, 2020, 10:27:20 pm »
I do not really have any say in that matter.
can't say more on an open channel. and the ultraviolet priority channel is currently not available.

Computer: "Citizen, you don't have clearance for that. You will be exterminated immediatly. Please vist the next termination booth this way. Have a nice day and be happy!"¹

¹Reference

 :-DD   >:D

“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71291 on: October 05, 2020, 10:29:00 pm »
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71292 on: October 05, 2020, 10:30:26 pm »
Ugh this thread rolls fast. Been busy this evening using my Metcal  :-D.

Have put together a QRP Labs QCX+ kit which is being abused into an FSK radio modem for my telemetry project by bypassing all the CW filter shit and using a PLL. Found out I can do cheap FSK with a crystal, BJT and a 1n4148 switched in by a uC. Get a 80Hz shift so I’m going to attempt to use that rather than CW. Signal processing will be done inside the PC. I did consider pulling the I-Q signals off and doing it all in software but that requires much revision on signal processing and sound APIs which I can’t be arsed with.

Cerebus is on the mark as usual. The PS series I picked because this was a production iron rather than a rework iron. It has three parts: the handpiece, cartridge and tip, each replaceable on the fly. The tips take 5 seconds to swap out. The cartridge 20 seconds and the handpiece about 30 seconds. The whole thing is designed to not cost you time.
Ya wot ?  :-//
Who TF doesn't have a pair of pliers handy for changing out a hot Hakko tip and be going again in a minute ?  :box:
Really, is our hobby time that precious.  ::)

Quote
This was then bolted into the chassis in place of the old capacitor with M4 hardware. There are three spacer washers between the board and the main PCB.



Job done, and if an original part comes along it can be substituted in no problems at all.
Would've looked so much nicer with brass standoffs, nuts and screws.  :P

Don't you guys hang onto this stuff when you part things out ?  :popcorn:

All time is precious. It’s the only thing that is finite.

As for brass, yeah but not got any M4 sized stuff. It’s all small BA sized and cheese head shite or 4-40. I have about 3kg of salvaged screws!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 10:52:18 pm by bd139 »
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71293 on: October 05, 2020, 10:51:08 pm »
OK this is not really TEA-related, but most of us are used to handling really big .CSV files - unlike, it seems, the good people at Public Health England:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/05/how-excel-may-have-caused-loss-of-16000-covid-tests-in-england

We also understand the importance of "backup", "multiple copies of important documents", and other advanced concepts.

And it sure ain't difficult. My documents are backed up to an external hard drive as well as the Cloud.

Update: the 6AQ5 tube arrived at my PO this afternoon. So I should get it tomorrow.
I think this was a deliberate error to message the figures but someone unearthed it so this cover was concocted to cover the error.

Naa, I've seen the horrors committed with grossly inappropriate use of Excel spreadsheets in industry too many times. It's the tool that every muppet who's ever used as computer thinks they understand and they're prepared to build anything out of it. You could destroy industry worldwide tomorrow by shipping out a new revision of Excel with auto-recalculation turned off.

https://www.neopoleon.com/blog/excel-as-a-database/
 
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Offline 25 CPS

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71294 on: October 06, 2020, 12:20:44 am »
From the "Nothing To See Here; Move Along..." Dept...

Just returned from an eyeball QSO with 25 CPS at a Tim Horton's not too far from my new place. Our meeting was... productive.  >:D

mnem




And there’s the picture of the meeting.   It was great spending the afternoon shooting the test equipment breeze over coffee!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 12:38:24 am by 25 CPS »
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71295 on: October 06, 2020, 01:03:19 am »
Damn I wish there was a Tim Horton's close to me. Nearest is 60 miles in White Plains.

But the one near Lady Cop in Staten Island closed. That's where this pix was taken.

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71296 on: October 06, 2020, 01:17:24 am »
Obviously the halo was 'shopped into that pic...  :-DD

mnem
 >:D
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71297 on: October 06, 2020, 01:31:54 am »
Grr. 3DP is being mean to me.  :rant:

mnem
*back into hell*
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Offline 0culus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71298 on: October 06, 2020, 01:34:47 am »
From the "Nothing To See Here; Move Along..." Dept...

Just returned from an eyeball QSO with 25 CPS at a Tim Horton's not too far from my new place. Our meeting was... productive.  >:D

mnem




And there’s the picture of the meeting.   It was great spending the afternoon shooting the test equipment breeze over coffee!

It just looks so....Canadian  :-DD
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #71299 on: October 06, 2020, 02:03:51 am »
From the "Nothing To See Here; Move Along..." Dept...

Just returned from an eyeball QSO with 25 CPS at a Tim Horton's not too far from my new place. Our meeting was... productive.  >:D

mnem




And there’s the picture of the meeting.   It was great spending the afternoon shooting the test equipment breeze over coffee!

It just looks so....Canadian  :-DD

At minimum one of them is a Hoser.......but I'm not saying which.  :P :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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