Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mansaxel]

On a different topic, had my car MOT't and a 62,000-mile service done today, new brake pads, plus all the usual 60,000 mile stuff £602. Clean bill of health for MOT including the emissions, well within the parameters and the pads were the first new ones on the car in 7 years and so the wiper blades are still the originals and perfectly OK, next week, another £600 for tax and insurance, so now new TEA acquisitions for me for a while 

Good news though. Not the £3k bill a colleague of mine just got for his Merc  . I like rubbing in that my car, fuel and expenditure cost less than his last four service intervals in 2 years 

I really should do mine too, mostly oil but the crank case ventilation probably is as clogged as the arteries of a 24h breakfast-eating TE hunter-gatherer. Right rear brake pad probably needs love too, that caliper I believe binds a bit so needs changing more often. Need to time it with a week when there's no risk of having to go into work, because I've not been in public transport since March and I won't risk it yet.

Edit: This would be the 231250-mile (370000km) service.

[BU508A]

Dear TEA fellows,

today I'd like to introduce the Rohde & Schwarz UGZ BN 1100 voltmeter.
It arrived today and a first checking revealed, that it needs some repair.
Based on the date-codes I've found I assume that this meter was built
in 1962 or 1963. The price for this meter was in 1963 ca. 6500 DM.
I've looked with an online calculator and got a result for 1965 of today's ca. 13900 EUR.
This thing was bloody expensive back in the days!   
And it's heavy! It weighs around 15kg!

But let's start with the pictures.

This is the front:


Sorry, should have removed the steel cover first. 


Here are some examples of the display:
on the left one can see the transition between two digits.
on the right it is obvious, that this meter has a problem. Need to order the manual.


I have disassembled a bit the display and this is the backside (left),
on the right there is a plate showing the manufacturer of the displays.


These light bulbs are the light source for projecting the digits to front. Wow! 


Now let's have a look to all sides of this meter.
Top, bottom, back, left, right.


That wiring! This must have been a nightmare to assemble! And there is more in it!   

Here are some more detailed views.
on the left, eleven PCBs with lots of Ge-transistors on it. The silver ones are AC124 and they are supposed
to be glued on the pcb. But the glue has become old and brittle and isn't able to stick the transistor to the pcb anymore.
I have removed all the pcbs and put some kapton tape on the backside of them.
Next there are some nice Valvo OA31 power diodes. I think they are belonging to the power supply part.
Next there is the fuse holder with the cover removed (on the right, the thing with the knob on top)
Next a huge amount of relays. Under the white plastic cover there are more relays.
Next, this is something for med. Nice stand-offs.
Most right, some trimpots. I think they are for adjusting the voltage of the power supply



To quote Sepp Herberger (German football trainer) "Elf Freunde müsst ihr sein." 
We have here eleven PCBs, the first four of them are identical.
Top - front side
Bottom - back side
Order: 1-4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 (left to right)




I have also attached an info sheet which I've found for this meter. Sadly, it's in German.


Thank you for watching, I hope, you have enjoyed this teardown of an unusual meter.
Now I have to order the manual and I hope, that I will get all the Ge-semiconductors.

Edit: some typos

Edit 2:
Got this hint from user Tomorokoshi. Thank you! 

Fran at Franlab did a video on the IEE Readout display:

https://youtu.be/0TD_MhPpZKg

Edit 3:
Follow up can be found here.

[mnementh]

ok.  this is something i am sure to reget bringing up.

rms watts?

RMS what?
Having quite an experience in making power meters, I know RMS current, RMS voltage, real power, apparent power, reactive power, distortion power, harmonic power, ...
but nothing that would be called "rms watts" or RMS power.
Anyway, I've seen this "unit" often with audio amplifier stuff in the last maybe one or two decades. Normally, I'd expect a audio amplifier rated in "sine power" - that is the output power level the amplifier can sustain for something like a minute, or "music (peak) power", that's a rating for short bass peaks. Usually the music / peak power is e.g. 120W for a 80W (sine) amp.
Today, there's chinese watts, PMPO watts, and maybe RMS watts. Don't know what they're supposed to mean except lying about the real capabilities of the amp.

"RMS watts" in audio equipment is used to obfuscate the fact that they're measuring P-P watts over a very brief period (less than the discharge/recovery rate of the big caps on the rails) and then trying to claim that as actually being something like continuous power. They're taking advantage of the huge difference in the lower IR of modern MOSFET and Bipolar transistors over the good old days where we just poured oodles of amps @70-90V into the + & - rails with lots of smaller transistors in parallel. Bonus, because they're measuring over such a short period (often only part of a single wave), THD looks much better than it really is.

mnem
RMS Watts=BS Watts

[bd139]

@BU508A: that is one seriously impressive bit of equipment. Thanks for taking the time to write it up. Thoroughly enjoyed that one 

[mnementh]

Good grief wth is with the forum?

Also, ooops... a last second snipe was successful when I expected it to fail... 

The seller hasn't accepted yet, and I'll not be surprised if they come up with some excuse to void the auction. If they accept my paypal payment, I'm the new d'Oh-ner of a Keithley 2000, price £256 shipped (no I can't afford it).   

New at Farnell they are £837, so not a bad price if you get it and its fixable at a good price 

Not to fan the flames or nuttin',  but there's a few on fleaBay right now from vendor BestTestUS supposedly tested good for $399, altho the VFDs do appear a tad dim in photos: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=keithley+2000&_sop=15

mnem
 

[nixiefreqq]

ok.  this is something i am sure to reget bringing up.

rms watts?

RMS what?
Having quite an experience in making power meters, I know RMS current, RMS voltage, real power, apparent power, reactive power, distortion power, harmonic power, ...
but nothing that would be called "rms watts" or RMS power.
Anyway, I've seen this "unit" often with audio amplifier stuff in the last maybe one or two decades. Normally, I'd expect a audio amplifier rated in "sine power" - that is the output power level the amplifier can sustain for something like a minute, or "music (peak) power", that's a rating for short bass peaks. Usually the music / peak power is e.g. 120W for a 80W (sine) amp.
Today, there's chinese watts, PMPO watts, and maybe RMS watts. Don't know what they're supposed to mean except lying about the real capabilities of the amp.

"RMS watts" in audio equipment is used to obfuscate the fact that they're measuring P-P watts over a very brief period (less than the discharge/recovery rate of the big caps on the rails) and then trying to claim that as actually being something like continuous power. They're taking advantage of the huge difference in the lower IR of modern MOSFET and Bipolar transistors over the good old days where we just poured oodles of amps @70-90V into the + & - rails with lots of smaller transistors in parallel. Bonus, because they're measuring over such a short period (often only part of a single wave), THD looks much better than it really is.

mnem
RMS Watts=BS Watts

tom  - w8ji explained it very well on his web site.


"The old common method of quantifying RF power was average power. Average power is same as equivalent work power or heating power of each cycle averaged over a significant time compared to the time when power level changes. With an unchanging (during the measurement period) power level, such as a steady unmodulated carrier applied to a constant resistance load, average power and peak envelope power are the same. If we close and hold-closed a manual telegraph key on a good stable CW transmitter, we will see the average power displayed on a power meter. It will not be the "RMS power".  It is also the peak envelope power, because it is the maximum stable heating power level over some period of time that we hold the key.

As for peak envelope power, peak envelope power is the very maximum short term peak reached of either steady or varying heating power levels!

Consider a sine wave with a peak voltage of 100 volts. The RMS voltage is 70.7107 volts, or 100 peak volts. If we placed that voltage across a 50 ohm resistance we would have 70.7107 / 50 = 1.414214 amperes. That would also be 100 watts average power in one complete cycle or any number of equal amplitude cycles that follow. The peak envelope power is also 100 watts because the peaks are the same cycle after cycle.

If we pulsed that power off and on rapidly with a 50% duty cycle the average power would be 50 watts. Half the time it would be 100 watts, and half the time zero watts. The peak envelope power would be 100 watts, because that would be the power at the crest of the envelope! The envelope can be as short as one cycle, although no meters ever respond to that.

Power cannot be RMS power. RMS is calculated by squaring the function's value, taking the average (mean value) of the squared function, and finally converting that mean value back by finding the square root of that mean. If we had a peak power of 100 watts with a 50% duty cycle the RMS power, if there was such a thing, would be SQRT( (100^2 + 0)/2) = 70.71 watts. We see that 70.71 watts is not the average power, is not the heating or "work" power, and is not the peak power. It isn't anything at all useful! We can have meters that read RMS voltage, and we can also have RMS current, but we don't read "RMS power" with any of our power measuring instruments. We can't even calculate RMS power to be anything useful or sensible at all."

[mnementh]

0) You're preaching to the choir.

1) You're comparing RF measurements to audio.

2) You're comparing serious specifications to AudioPhool technobabble.

mnem
 

 

[mnementh]

Dear TEA fellows,

today I'd like to introduce the Rohde & Schwarz UGZ BN 1100 voltmeter...   

mnem
I think a little pee just came out of me...

[Kosmic]

An awesome collection of power sensor history. Did the instruments come with the sonsors ? Or you want to make them by yourself ?

I have a Boonton 4200 and 4300 with Calibrator. So I can use all the Boonton sensors. I might try to find a meter for the gigatronics and the Anritsu is going back on ebay.

I thought the gigas were specialty-app sensors made to go on the HP 43xx power meters...?

mnem
 

No the pinout of the cable is not the same. You can find bunch of Gigatronics power meter for not a lot of money on ebay. Finding the cables at a reasonable price is a bit harder though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gigatronics-8542B-Universal-Power-Meter/274136935950

[Specmaster]

On a different topic, had my car MOT't and a 62,000-mile service done today, new brake pads, plus all the usual 60,000 mile stuff £602. Clean bill of health for MOT including the emissions, well within the parameters and the pads were the first new ones on the car in 7 years and so the wiper blades are still the originals and perfectly OK, next week, another £600 for tax and insurance, so now new TEA acquisitions for me for a while 

Good news though. Not the £3k bill a colleague of mine just got for his Merc  . I like rubbing in that my car, fuel and expenditure cost less than his last four service intervals in 2 years 

Yeah Mercs and BMW are well known for expensive maintenance bills, neither cars are as reliable as they should be. Japanese cars are very reliable indeed these days, unlike the early ones they imported 

[Specmaster]

Dear TEA fellows,

today I'd like to introduce the Rohde & Schwarz UGZ BN 1100 voltmeter...   

mnem
I think a little pee just came out of me...

Don't look now but there a boat following that anchor down because the water has evaporated 

[tautech]

Japanese cars are very reliable indeed these days, unlike the early ones they imported 

They were fine if you got a Jap assembled one but locally assembled rusted out in no time ! 

Until fully dipped chassis were common all makes here had problems however because traditional makes used thicker panels and better quality steel they lasted a few years longer.

[Cubdriver]

Dear TEA fellows,

today I'd like to introduce the Rohde & Schwarz UGZ BN 1100 voltmeter.
It arrived today and a first checking revealed, that it needs some repair.
Based on the date-codes I've found I assume that this meter was built
in 1962 or 1963. The price for this meter was in 1963 ca. 6500 DM.
I've looked with an online calculator and got a result for 1965 of today's ca. 13900 EUR.
This thing was bloody expensive back in the days!   
And it's heavy! It weighs around 15kg!

But let's start with the pictures.

Sorry, should have removed the steel cover first. 


Here are some examples of the display:
on the left one can see the transition between two digits.
on the right it is obvious, that this meter has a problem. Need to order the manual.


Thank you for watching, I hope, you have enjoyed this teardown of an unusual meter.
Now I have to order the manual and I hope, that I will get all the Ge-semiconductors.

Edit: some typos

VERY cool old meter.  I have a couple of those stacked plate display meters here, made by Non Linear Systems and Electro Instruments.  Some one of these years I'll get one working...  one big challenge is finding documentation for 55+ year old instruments of which few survivors exist.

Congrats on finding the old beast!

-Pat

[med6753]

Dear TEA fellows,

today I'd like to introduce the Rohde & Schwarz UGZ BN 1100 voltmeter...   

mnem
I think a little pee just came out of me...

That thing is super cool but look at all those most likely leaky wax crapacitors on those boards.    That is going to be one expensive re-cap. 

[mnementh]

Dear TEA fellows,

today I'd like to introduce the Rohde & Schwarz UGZ BN 1100 voltmeter...   

mnem
I think a little pee just came out of me...

Don't look now but there a boat following that anchor down because the water has evaporated 

I blame Trump for everything good that has evaporated over the last 3 years... 

mnem
...and the sociopathic turtle-man who keeps him as a pet. 

[TorinoFermic]

Quote from: PA0PBZ on Today at 09:22:40>Quote from: tonyalbus on Today at 09:19:49

Woops Dave!!
Certificate expires......Thursday, August 27, 2020

Yes, I already reported it in the supporters lounge.



What's next thing ? Ransomware attack ?

[mnementh]

mnem
 

[Neomys Sapiens]

An awesome collection of power sensor history. Did the instruments come with the sonsors ? Or you want to make them by yourself ?

I have a Boonton 4200 and 4300 with Calibrator. So I can use all the Boonton sensors. I might try to find a meter for the gigatronics and the Anritsu is going back on ebay.

Might that be the Anritsu sensor which fits on the Sitemaster251?

[Kosmic]

An awesome collection of power sensor history. Did the instruments come with the sonsors ? Or you want to make them by yourself ?

I have a Boonton 4200 and 4300 with Calibrator. So I can use all the Boonton sensors. I might try to find a meter for the gigatronics and the Anritsu is going back on ebay.

Might that be the Anritsu sensor which fits on the Sitemaster251?

Look like it. Damn NS, you're good!

From the SiteMaster S251 specsheet:

[mansaxel]

Dear TEA fellows,

today I'd like to introduce the Rohde & Schwarz UGZ BN 1100 voltmeter.

Beautiful! Sehr tolles Gerät! And I learnt a few things.

[Tomorokoshi]

Dear TEA fellows,
...

Fran at Franlab did a video on the IEE Readout display:

https://youtu.be/0TD_MhPpZKg

[0culus]

This one's especially for @nixiefreqq (and all other RPN haterz) 

 

HP-50g, HP-35S, HP-65, HP-45, HP-15C (one of the two I own), HP-16C (again one of two). Soon to be joined by an HP-48G and an HP-12C. $60 for both, so I couldn't say no. 


nixie, in my defense, the HP-50g and the HP-35s will both work as algebraic calculators. Not that I ever do that.

 

[bitseeker]

TEA Rule #43
Never buy the cheapest chinesium, unless it is for explosion investigation purposes

Ah, I see the Ferengi influence is strong in this one. Is this the beginning of the "TEA Rules of Acquisition" or an extension of the "10 11 Laws of TEA (and counting)"?

What say y'all?

[srb1954]

Amazing that the 7-segment displays in your '65 and '45 are still working.

In my '45 the segments gradually winked out one by one. I ended up having to replace all the display modules before the calculator reached its 5th birthday.

[0culus]

Amazing that the 7-segment displays in your '65 and '45 are still working.

In my '45 the segments gradually winked out one by one. I ended up having to replace all the display modules before the calculator reached its 5th birthday.

I'm the second owner of the HP-65...the prior owner bought it new and maintained it as-new. I have all the papers, accessories, and box. The only thing it needed was the gummy wheel fix, which was accomplished successfully. The 45 is a similar circumstance, except the prior owner is a close family member who gave it to me.

That's too bad about yours...maybe defective modules?