Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)

[coromonadalix]

front panel error is driver related  ... 

as for slow windows boot times,    you can remove start up programs / garbage / some services too

because windows sometimes try to initialize  lan before the other peripherals, and if you still have an ide drive  ...  a 2.5" is sluggish vs an 3.5" unless you are in the 7200 rpm for both

for sure our 7404 is not fast on boot, i did push the fastest cpu (doubled the speed)   i could find and max the ram amount

the su810 or Radisys   can do 1.2 -1.3 gig celeron cpu, if you find the right fsb 100 speed multiplier,  and i paid the cpu 25$ delivered ... they are not too pricey, be careful on the heatsink manipulations, you can break the top cpu die ...

for ram on the Radisys the mobo was very picky,  i mixed a 100 speed and 133 speed to max 512MB,  but it's not a problem, since they run at 100 speed

front panel need a driver
touch screen is normally an HID peripheral, did not ask driver in my case, but may need one ...
power pc board need a driver  .....

but if in the end all is working ... and you did not pay a fortune in the end ...

[hazelnutsky]

Turns out the front panel was fixed by moving some jumpers about. RP104.

The slow(er) speed at start-up was caused by the DRAM module, even though both DRAM modules are marked 100MHz CL2.

I have a spare SSD I could put in with Windows 98, but for now the NLX part of the 7404 is working fine, CD, Floppy, touch screen, calibration looks good, even though it complains about an error. Only issue now is the edge trigger on CH1 and CH2.

The motherboard cam very well packed from USA, £100 for the board, and another £100 to cover postage and taxes. I wonder if it was worth it just to have the RTC working though.

[coromonadalix]

how did the scope costed ?? and with added "new" mobo   it sums to ....  do you have probes with it ?

edge trigger ?  not sure it's hardware related, you did spc self tests ?  other error shown ?

others may chime in for this problem ....    and or you could resell it for parts ?

[hazelnutsky]

Hi coromonadalix,

I bought the scope at auction, it was quite expensive, but came with a front cover and 4 x TCA-SMA connectors.
Testing with the PROBE COMPENSATION output, all channels are very close in amplitude 1-2% of the stated waveform. I can get edge trigger to work on CH3 and CH4, but not CH1 and CH2. Advanced trigger seems to work for CH1-4. Scope fails the SPC test, these symptoms all point to a failed trigger chip 156-8278-00.

Today I tested the CD and the floppy drive - all good.

[coromonadalix]

ok  your best luck is buying pcb's to get this chip ...  they are in 6k series too

good luck, they are unobtanium and people search them

[Ghastly]

Hi. Sorry for such a late reply. Things just got in the way. I was able to spot the battery, and now I'm taking a little bit of a break because opening this damn thing requires a million screws that wasa PIA. Then going to replace the battery, error codes went from 4 to L just as OP said. It makes more sense now why it just stopped working. I was turning it on and off constantly because I was having issues installing Windows 2000. Thanks so much for your help. I only recently finished my first year of EE, it would've taken me ages to figure this stuff out without this thread (this was my birthday gift). That being said, I bought RAM and a CPU to upgrade. Both were plug and play. I had ordered the P3 1100 which was a bit pricey but hey, it works out of the box. Albeit I've heard the 1100 is very unstable but oh well.

[bsudbrink]

I've recently acquired a TDS7054.  It was non-working when I got it due to the CMOS battery being dead.  I was able (following examples on the web) to replace the battery and restore the settings and now it works.  It's a monster (size-wise) but it fits a space on my bench.  I'm wondering whether there are any worthwhile upgrades to be made to it.  It is running Windows 98 with a 500MHz Celeron and 128 Megs of RAM.  Would upgrades to memory/CPU/OS provide any major improvements?

Thanks

[hazelnutsky]

Hi bsudbrink,
Do all your edge triggers work ?

[coromonadalix]

I've recently acquired a TDS7054.  It was non-working when I got it due to the CMOS battery being dead.  I was able (following examples on the web) to replace the battery and restore the settings and now it works.  It's a monster (size-wise) but it fits a space on my bench.  I'm wondering whether there are any worthwhile upgrades to be made to it.  It is running Windows 98 with a 500MHz Celeron and 128 Megs of RAM.  Would upgrades to memory/CPU/OS provide any major improvements?

Thanks

will not hurt to change the cpu  and crank up the memory, you can get them for cheap ... a celeron 1000, 1100 ...  with the same fsb,  memory is trickier it need sync memory dual side / 16 chips total ...

and i put 98 Se   yeah yeah  some hate it, some not, because it had more recent usb drivers ... so far on a 7404  it works fine, 
for win 2k  i had a constant reboot loop

[squadchannel]

Hi bsudbrink,
Do all your edge triggers work ?

The TDS7054 and TDS7104 do not use an overheating trigger chip.

[bsudbrink]

Hi bsudbrink,
Do all your edge triggers work ?

They seem to.  I don't really have metrology level equipment but it agrees with my humble collection of cheap and cast off signal generators and scopes.

[bsudbrink]

will not hurt to change the cpu  and crank up the memory, you can get them for cheap ... a celeron 1000, 1100 ...  with the same fsb,  memory is trickier it need sync memory dual side / 16 chips total ...
and i put 98 Se   yeah yeah  some hate it, some not, because it had more recent usb drivers ... so far on a 7404  it works fine, 
for win 2k  i had a constant reboot loop

I appreciate your reply, but "not hurt" was not what I was looking for.  This is a useful tool for me now.  I believe that there is a non-zero chance of screwing it up when applying these modifications.  I would like to understand the potential benefits before I decide to undertake any or all of them.  If, for instance, the extra memory will just sit there (in terms of scope operation) then it would not be worth it in my opinion.  If, on the other hand, it will allow the scope to record a longer wave form or something, then yes.  I really plan to use this just as a scope, not a windows workstation.

Thanks,
Bill

[coromonadalix]

oh sorry  its an expression,   it will not affect it's operation if you change the cpu for faster, say the double speed, and should not create problems for memory too

i say "should not"  because  as we know the motherboard could be picky

BUT  many will say : it's aint broke don't do any change,   but i would advise to clone your drive  .... they die over time

And the dallas battery could die, and you would loose your VxWork configs, and the scope software will not boot

And do dust cleaning on the fans ...

copy the tektronix folders(s) and vxwork folder of the drive on a usb key, to be sure you keep your "CALcon"  configs / values

and "not hurt" would mean, anti static counter measures and be precise and not fiddle where you're not supposed to  ....
it's a PC and a Scope, but the PC comes 1st


THESES upgrades will ease the OS  not the scope, and if you have some OS crap loaded, IE: some MSN outlook  etc ... i did some services cleanup ...

It will not change how Tekscope runs (it may or could help a bit, shorten slightly the boot time of tekscope ...) but it will not run like a formula 1 car .... ,  and  for the longer records etc ... you do have some options to enable, if they are not  Ie: 2M option  and a few others

you still rely on an old ide drive,  some tried compact flash adapters or ide ssd  with no trim support ... and shortened the boot time

i did all of this,  on a 7404, sure it boot maybe 50% faster,  but i could say it has more kick to run software(s), kinda more snappy, but i don't see tekscope running faster for acquisitions of time related features, the ssd was the latest addition after my comments about restarting a crashed 7404 ...

my 2 cents

hope you realize they are from an old era,  15-20-25 years ...  don't expect to do modern things ... they are limited in a sense, and way outdated in some functions

[Ghastly]

I've recently acquired a TDS7054.  It was non-working when I got it due to the CMOS battery being dead.  I was able (following examples on the web) to replace the battery and restore the settings and now it works.  It's a monster (size-wise) but it fits a space on my bench.  I'm wondering whether there are any worthwhile upgrades to be made to it.  It is running Windows 98 with a 500MHz Celeron and 128 Megs of RAM.  Would upgrades to memory/CPU/OS provide any major improvements?

Thanks

will not hurt to change the cpu  and crank up the memory, you can get them for cheap ... a celeron 1000, 1100 ...  with the same fsb,  memory is trickier it need sync memory dual side / 16 chips total ...

and i put 98 Se   yeah yeah  some hate it, some not, because it had more recent usb drivers ... so far on a 7404  it works fine, 
for win 2k  i had a constant reboot loop

Did you ever try to see about another better NLX board? I tried searching for something than the higher FSB. One seller claims a board with more than 100mhz FSB but he never responded to my message asking more into it

[coromonadalix]

for an 7404 scope

i do have an intel 815 from gateway pc's, come with an nlx connector board, lan usb, ide's, atx connector

the problems : it may miss one or many voltage to start up, scope led is red, a power good or the power switch return, or a constant voltage

The physical size is limit, it almost push on the back scope plate, a very tight fit, you would need to redesign a back plate

And tried to install w2k or xp failed, constant boot loop on the Radisys 810  mobo

But in the end is it worth it ?  not so sure, for an fsb 133 mobo ... 

thoses tds scopes need a special size NLX size, they where up to the intel 810, on 815 they become bigger, i searched tons and tons of possible candidates, sadly no exact fit

you would get possibly more success on a 5000 serie, not sure for 6000 serie, but they have their own quirks too

[squadchannel]

As per reply #887,coromonadalix says, changing the motherboard, CPU or memory to a faster one will not affect the operation of the scope at all.
This is because with the structure of the TDS7000 series, the waveform display is done by the CHIPS 69000 on the PowerPC board.
The PowerPC directly controls the graphic memory of the CHIPS 69000.

Therefore, it is not possible to change the motherboard to speed up the process. Maybe loading at startup will change a few milliseconds.
There is no need to spend that much money. Stop at changing the hard disk to SSD or so.

[coromonadalix]

that's what i think,  a small percentage of gains here and there

i would say the bottleneck would be the ide drive, slow as ....  5400rpm, an ide ssd with no trim,  help reduce boot time and access time of the pc side

BUT will not push / help tekscope to new limits  loll

at some point  you must know when call it dibs


even i tought  of creating a new nlx interface converter card between the nlx mobo and the power pc, if i understood, it is the pci data lines who are used between the mobo and power pc ... anyways the 7404 is not fully mine  loll cant play too hard in it  loll its a backup,  in case of the tds7254b we have fail, but sure it's tempting  loll

[squadchannel]

I too thought when I bought my TDS7104 that I was going to use a COMExpress module and a PCIe-PCI bridge to speed things up.
After I found out the rementioned, I stopped.

In the end, the memory bus clock of the PowerPC and CHIPS 69000 senses and the communication speed with DEMUX are the bottleneck.
20+ years old scopes, they are not as good (in terms of speed) as modern, lightweight, 12-bit scopes.

It wins in terms of price and performance other than speed. Just having the big Tektronix instrument is enough to satisfy my desire to own one.

[Ghastly]

for an 7404 scope

i do have an intel 815 from gateway pc's, come with an nlx connector board, lan usb, ide's, atx connector

the problems : it may miss one or many voltage to start up, scope led is red, a power good or the power switch return, or a constant voltage

The physical size is limit, it almost push on the back scope plate, a very tight fit, you would need to redesign a back plate

And tried to install w2k or xp failed, constant boot loop on the Radisys 810  mobo

But in the end is it worth it ?  not so sure, for an fsb 133 mobo ... 

thoses tds scopes need a special size NLX size, they where up to the intel 810, on 815 they become bigger, i searched tons and tons of possible candidates, sadly no exact fit

you would get possibly more success on a 5000 serie, not sure for 6000 serie, but they have their own quirks too

No it isn't worth it honestly. But I want the maximum PC specs available because its fun, and I use the scope like a Windows 2000 PC as well. Really the only upgrade I'd say go for is an IDE upgrade of using an IDE to M.2 adapter. I really don't trust the harddrive given the age. An IDE to SATA adapter will not work given the physical constraints, or at the very least it barely fits so I chose an M.2 adapter instead. Currently figuring out if I can do a firewall on a SoC then relay that connection to the scope to try to minimize security risks to a certain point. I bought PTM7950, to make sure it wouldn't dry out. Lastly I bought my first probe yesterday the P7330 though of course I already have 4 TCA-BNC adapters but I wanted a high end probe. Given the price of these machines for me, I'm more than willing to throw a couple bucks for the scope accessories, and upgrades.

[Ghastly]

that's what i think,  a small percentage of gains here and there

i would say the bottleneck would be the ide drive, slow as ....  5400rpm, an ide ssd with no trim,  help reduce boot time and access time of the pc side

BUT will not push / help tekscope to new limits  loll

at some point  you must know when call it dibs


even i tought  of creating a new nlx interface converter card between the nlx mobo and the power pc, if i understood, it is the pci data lines who are used between the mobo and power pc ... anyways the 7404 is not fully mine  loll cant play too hard in it  loll its a backup,  in case of the tds7254b we have fail, but sure it's tempting  loll

Yeah then I get that. I bought my 7254B from a mechanical engineer for pretty cheap at 800 dollars.

[mda]

i have with great interest read this post which has help understand my TEK TDS 7104. I am although having a annoying issue.
After several months of still stand the scope was brought into action, but alas the booting process ended with the splashscreen and the backup battery for the Maxim Dallas VRAM was defective.
Connecting to both the MAX 232 and the port J790 with cable trying to correct the parameters.
It work nicely through Putty and a Startech Usb/RS232 but:
Entering parameters result in garbage when you show  the parameters with "p" and also a message " maximum field is to big"
This is shown in the attached screen print and also the start of the boot proces which seems to work.
In a vain attempt I have also changed the Maxim Dallas VRAM , but no change in the responds from the scope.
Please help.

[coromonadalix]

on this connector  it was a matter of finding a good terminal software ...  in my case  Termite

and the right settings,  like echo on or off   cr or lf  or cr + lf  endings   and the communications speed  9600 n 8 1  ... if i recall    loll



unless you type in non american characters / language ?? witch thru a terminal is normally irrelevant ?

[mda]

Thanks for reply - to my great wonder trying another program Tera Term instead of Putty - it worked and I could write to the NVram without getting garbage in return.
Regards

[tv84]

Programs of the caliber of Putty or Teraterm should behave the same way as long as the CR/LF, echo and bit settings are correctly set, as @coromonadalix mentioned.

[mda]

Thanks for replies.
I have had it booting and starting the scope  - I am although getting some errors I do not know the meaning of?
dbFsIoctl: invalid code 3
( please see bottom of file).
Regards