Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series

[echen1024]

Latest snippet of information:
Siglent SDS2000 series will come with options enabled for 30 start cycles for user appraisal.
After 30 power cycles the user will have to purchase options.

So what if I leave my scope on 24/7?

[kebogen]

Latest snippet of information:
Siglent SDS2000 series will come with options enabled for 30 start cycles for user appraisal.
After 30 power cycles the user will have to purchase options.

So what if I leave my scope on 24/7?

That's a good idea. But maybe the fan couldn't live long .  A sleep mode will be really useful to solve the problem, but I don't think the sds2000  series scope has the sleep mode function, maybe just turn off the screen display.

[echen1024]

Latest snippet of information:
Siglent SDS2000 series will come with options enabled for 30 start cycles for user appraisal.
After 30 power cycles the user will have to purchase options.

So what if I leave my scope on 24/7?

That's a good idea. But maybe the fan couldn't live long .  A sleep mode will be really useful to solve the problem, but I don't think the sds2000  series scope has the sleep mode function, maybe just turn off the screen display.

Easy. I replace the fan with an external one, and have it blow in or out the vent. A more powerful fan wouldn't hurt.

[Mark_O]

Latest snippet of information:
Siglent SDS2000 series will come with options enabled for 30 start cycles for user appraisal.
After 30 power cycles the user will have to purchase options.

So what if I leave my scope on 24/7?

After about 4 years, you will have paid more for the kWh than what all the Protocol trigger & decode Options would have cost to buy up front.  Then another 4 years for the Arb Gen.    I didn't bother to figure out the Power Analysis option.  That's about another $300 USD, so it will take a while.

At some point, you will exceed the POH assumed for the MTBF.  The fan (at least) will die.  Hopefully it's quieter than the one in the Rigol's, otherwise it may get on your nerves after a year or two.   

Oh, and don't forget to put it on a UPS.    I've experienced power fail bounces that would take out 3 or 4 of those cycles, in one "outage".

[echen1024]

Latest snippet of information:
Siglent SDS2000 series will come with options enabled for 30 start cycles for user appraisal.
After 30 power cycles the user will have to purchase options.

So what if I leave my scope on 24/7?

After about 4 years, you will have paid more for the kWh than what all the Protocol trigger & decode Options would have cost to buy up front.  Then another 4 years for the Arb Gen.    I didn't bother to figure out the Power Analysis option.  That's about another $300 USD, so it will take a while.

At some point, you will exceed the POH assumed for the MTBF.  The fan (at least) will die.  Hopefully it's quieter than the one in the Rigol's, otherwise it may get on your nerves after a year or two.   

Oh, and don't forget to put it on a UPS.    I've experienced power fail bounces that would take out 3 or 4 of those cycles, in one "outage".

. I can't however find the prices of the options.

[Mark_O]

I can't however find the prices of the options.

I found them on the European site.  Of course, that's just one data point.  Converted to USD, they were ~$180 for all the Protocols, and another $180 for the Arb Gen.  Power Analysis was about $300.  Actual prices here may be more or less, but at least that's a ballpark idea.

Keep in mind that's a single-channel arb gen (just like on the Agilent X2000-series), so it should be cheaper than the similar option on the Rigol (which has 2, for ~$350).

[tautech]

Siglent SDS2000 series Option pricing
As of late last year and with no notified changes to date: All RRP
AWG                US$188
Decode             US$188  (serial triggering suite standard ex factory)
Power Analysis  US$318

All options enabled for 30 power cycles.

[Mark_O]

Siglent SDS2000 series Option pricing
As of late last year and with no notified changes to date: All RRP

AWG                 US$188
Decode             US$188  (serial triggering suite standard ex factory)
Power Analysis   US$318

Thanks for the accurate numbers!   

[ralphrmartin]

Does anyone know if the MDO comes as standard on this scope, with a probe, or if its an option, or what? It doesn't seem to be in the list of options with prices, so at this point I am pretty confused whether there will be separate SDS2104 and MDO2104 scopes, for example, or if they are all one and the same, or what. Repeated questions to siglent.eu didn't really help to to resolve this point.

[tautech]

Does anyone know if the MDO comes as standard on this scope, with a probe, or if its an option, or what? It doesn't seem to be in the list of options with prices, so at this point I am pretty confused whether there will be separate SDS2104 and MDO2104 scopes, for example, or if they are all one and the same, or what. Repeated questions to siglent.eu didn't really help to to resolve this point.

Welcome.
The MSO will be a variant. It is being produced now for pre-release evaluation. It will have 8 ch and comes with probe and will include all of the SDS2000 series features AFAIK. I have not yet seen pricing.

[Mark_O]

The MSO will be a variant. It is being produced now for pre-release evaluation. It will have 8 ch and comes with probe and will include all of the SDS2000 series features AFAIK. I have not yet seen pricing.

That's one area I don't think Siglent handled as well as they could have.  By not only constantly referring to it as the MSO/SDS2000, but also (almost) always showing pictures of it with the MSO connector on the front, it creates a lot of unnecessary confusion. 

Not just on the issues you discussed above, but also the question of upgradability.  I.e., are they like the Agilent X2000, where you can buy the DSO model, and later upgrade it to the MSO model?  That would be my guess.  E.g., by adding a software option, along with a cable and LA interface pod. 

Or do the DSO models lack some FPGA or CPLD chip on the mainboard, so they can't be upgraded (outside of the factory, at any rate)?  (Seems less likely.)  In which case, the MSO2000 would be a completely separate product.

[Siglent]

Hey everyone,
       We have made a statement that there will be no MSO2000 series several month ago, instead that all the SDS2000 series oscilloscope will be equipped 8 bit MSO channel since March 1st. You just need to purchase a MSO license to activate the MSO function when you need it later.
Of course, you need a MSO probe to work in with it. And you don't need to worry about the money, we will give a appropriate price these days, and it will have a high performance to price ratio.  Thanks very much.

[Mark_O]

Siglent, thanks for posting, and clearing that up.  Perhaps I wasn't the only one who missed the announcement about the non-MSO2000.

This is a good move.  With DSO -> MSO functionality upgradable at any time, you've future-proofed the product, and avoided folks having to decide up-front which they need now or may want in the future.  It also minimizes inventory costs, by not having to manufacture/stock 2 separate product lines.   

[nctnico]

A few points from me:
1) I'd still like to see an official samplerate versus channels enabled list.
2) Can digital and analog channels be displayed at the same time?
3) Does decoding work on analog and digital channels?

[ralphrmartin]

So how much will the MSO licence + probe cost?

[Siglent]

A few points from me:
1) I'd still like to see an official samplerate versus channels enabled list.
2) Can digital and analog channels be displayed at the same time?
3) Does decoding work on analog and digital channels?

Hi nctnico,
       I'm sorry for replying late, if you have any problems later, please email to support@siglent.com.
    We will reply you in 24 hours.
Here is a simply reply to you questions, if you want more information, please send email to support email box.
1, The highest sampling rate is 2GSa/s, when you turn on CH1 or CH2 or CH3 or CH4 is 2GSa/s, (CH1 and CH3) or (CH2 and CH4) is 2GSa/s,
    (CH1 and CH2) or (CH3 and CH4) is 1GSa/s
2,  Digital and analog channels can be displayed at the same time
3, Decode works on analog channels for serial trigger and decode. (IIC, SPI, UART/RS232, CAN, LIN)

[Mark_O]

Here is a simply reply to you questions, if you want more information, please send email to support email box.

1, The highest sampling rate is 2GSa/s, when you turn on CH1 or CH2 or CH3 or CH4 is 2GSa/s, (CH1 and CH3) or (CH2 and CH4) is 2GSa/s,
    (CH1 and CH2) or (CH3 and CH4) is 1GSa/s
2,  Digital and analog channels can be displayed at the same time
3, Decode works on analog channels for serial trigger and decode. (IIC, SPI, UART/RS232, CAN, LIN)

Thanks for the information.  Though I'm confused why you'd want to have dozens of people emailing you separately, with individual responses required?  Rather than just answering questions publicly here once, informing potentially hundreds of interested folks, all at the same time?  That doesn't seem very efficient, or a good use of resources.

[Mark_O]

Logical followup questions would be:

1)  why no serial decoding on the 8 MSO channels?  Is this a temporary limitation, that will later be removed (new firmware)?

2)   the specs indicate a max sample rate of 500MSa on the digital channels, but what is the memory depth?


As per Siglent here, I forwarded these question to their Support e-mail address.  And I received a prompt response.  Just so everyone else doesn't have to do the same, here is their reply...

> "What you care about the data of MSO function will be clear when the new firmware version with MSO function at about April 30."


So from that, we can conclude that: 

a)  they're not ready to answer those questions yet, and
b)  the MSO version is about 8 weeks away from release.

[marmad]

b)  the MSO version is about 8 weeks away from release.

I learned the true meaning of manufacturer/distributor timetables quite a long time ago:

1 week = 2 weeks
2 weeks = 4 weeks
4 weeks = 8 weeks
8 weeks = completely unknown

I refer skeptics to the first post of this thread

[Mark_O]

I learned the true meaning of manufacturer/distributor timetables quite a long time ago:

...
8 weeks = completely unknown

I refer skeptics to the first post of this thread

 

I'm shocked.     Are you implying this isn't November?   

[icpart]

Can someone to explain me what "Power analysis" option mean?
More specifically what software features are included in this option because I did not find anywhere details about that?
At siglent.eu I saw only the additional price but there is no any info about that option.

[Mark_O]

Can someone to explain me what "Power analysis" option mean?

I'll be happy to take a shot at it, but I'm no expert in this area, so perhaps someone else who is can correct any misstatement I make.

Generally speaking, this is an area that if you don't know what it is, you probably don't need it.    It's kind of an application-specific domain, and has several different contexts.  Two I'm aware of are RF-amplifier analysis, and switching power supply analysis.  Basically, they pull together a variety of measurements and present them in a meaningful way.  More quickly than you could step through, set up, and make each of them manually.  E.g., for power supplies, they might include items like: efficiency, output ripple, transient response, inrush current, slew rate, power quality, harmonic analysis, and what happens at power On/Off transitions.

More specifically what software features are included in this option because I did not find anywhere details about that?
At siglent.eu I saw only the additional price but there is no any info about that option.

We don't know yet, because nothing has been published yet.  Siglent has only indicated that they plan to provide such an option, AFAICT.  Perhaps if they perceive an interest, they'll step up with a few more details.

[Siglent]

Logical followup questions would be:

1)  why no serial decoding on the 8 MSO channels?  Is this a temporary limitation, that will later be removed (new firmware)?

2)   the specs indicate a max sample rate of 500MSa on the digital channels, but what is the memory depth?


As per Siglent here, I forwarded these question to their Support e-mail address.  And I received a prompt response.  Just so everyone else doesn't have to do the same, here is their reply...

> "What you care about the data of MSO function will be clear when the new firmware version with MSO function at about April 30."


So from that, we can conclude that: 

a)  they're not ready to answer those questions yet, and
b)  the MSO version is about 8 weeks away from release.

Hi Mark_O,
       I think you misunderstood my words, I said "Decode works on analog channels for serial trigger and decode" means Decode button on the front panel is used for analog channels, Digital button controls the 8 digital channels, the digital channels support decoding, too.
The memory depth of digital channel is 14Mpts/CH.
      Our company has a specialized team responsible for oversea technical problems, they are more professional and have more time to solve your problems, that why I suggest you to email them.

[Mark_O]

Siglent, thanks very much for the clarification.

Hi Mark_O,
       I think you misunderstood my words,

You are correct.  I did misunderstand.  My apologies for that!  When nctnico asked, "3) Does decoding work on analog and digital channels?", and only analog was mentioned, I misinterpreted what that implied.

I said "Decode works on analog channels for serial trigger and decode" means Decode button on the front panel is used for analog channels, Digital button controls the 8 digital channels, the digital channels support decoding, too.

That's excellent news.  I'm happy to hear that Decoding works on the digital channels as well.

The memory depth of digital channel is 14Mpts/CH.

That's impressive.  Thanks!

Our company has a specialized team responsible for oversea technical problems, they are more professional and have more time to solve your problems, that why I suggest you to email them.

OK.  I did so, and they basically told me to wait for two months and find out then.  So perhaps it might be understandable why I would ask here. 

[Siglent]

You are correct.  I did misunderstand.  My apologies for that!  When nctnico asked, "3) Does decoding work on analog and digital channels?", and only analog was mentioned, I misinterpreted what that implied.

:palm:My poor English make me get the wrong information, and make you confused, I am sorry for that.
I will try my best to tell you all the information I known for the products, I can reply the forum by my rest time only, forgive me for the delay.

Can someone to explain me what "Power analysis" option mean?
More specifically what software features are included in this option because I did not find anywhere details about that?
At siglent.eu I saw only the additional price but there is no any info about that option.

The power analysis option will be equiped a PC analysis software, it will be mainly used for Power supplier or battery test, or something like that, to measure the  power parameters and quality, such as VRMS, VCrest Factor, Frequency, IRMS, True, First peak, Second peak, and so on.