Siglent They filed a "wrongful trademark claim"

[Wuerstchenhund]

<devil's advocate>
I actually suspect that most people who have been asserting on this thread to never EVER buy from Siglent again, will reverse their position the moment the next piece of highly "bang for buck" Siglent test equipment becomes available that fits their needs or they just desire. Sure, Siglent will have taken a bit of a hit from this, but in the end their customer base are largely hobbyists and smaller entities that do care about cost effectiveness and neat technical tools more than some principle issue that didn't really affect them directly. And there's pretty much only Rigol competing in roughly the same league...

I'm sure you are right, people forget too quickly and are manipulated too easily (just look at how many people vote for the same politicians that screwed them over again and again). That's why I think it's essential that these things are properly investigated by the authorities, which at the end of the day is what they are there for.

As for ever buying Siglent again: after having owned a Siglent SDS1000CML scope and an SDG1000 AWG, and now owning one of the bug-infested SDS2000 scopes (used as a simple signal monitor, bolted to the wall in a small compartment) I can say that even before this thread I had no intention to buy anything from them again. Siglent has shown that they can produce good hardware, however they have also proven that they are utterly incompetent at developing software, even much more so than Rigol, which for test equipment is for me completely unacceptable, and buying second hand big brand gear has shown to be a much better investment than buying buggy Chinese B-brand stuff.

But each to their own I guess.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

I think that is a good compensation for your loss of time and your problems. I am not sure it repairs their reputation though. I am a customer of Siglent's and I might or might not buy something made by them again. Time will tell.

<devil's advocate>
I actually suspect that most people who have been asserting on this thread to never EVER buy from Siglent again, will reverse their position the moment the next piece of highly "bang for buck" Siglent test equipment becomes available that fits their needs or they just desire. Sure, Siglent will have taken a bit of a hit from this, but in the end their customer base are largely hobbyists and smaller entities that do care about cost effectiveness and neat technical tools more than some principle issue that didn't really affect them directly. And there's pretty much only Rigol competing in roughly the same league...

You summarized it well. Don't care for Siglent's, or Rigol's scopes, or PSU's on the market for several reasons. I give them credit where it due. They change the market, so hobbyists and smaller entities can get a affordable scope that will suit most needs without having to spend thousands, as they did before and only options was a old DSO Tektronix to get at a affordable price that people over paid for was pretty only option without having to spend thousands on a modern HP Agilent Keysight one. Now Siglent did hit the ball out the park with the new SDG 2000x function/arbitrary signal generator, you would have to spend 3-4 times more to get a better one. Rigol never really care for as they cut to many corners on the hardware, just firmware and support is good.

[rx8pilot]

<devil's advocate>
I actually suspect that most people who have been asserting on this thread to never EVER buy from Siglent again, will reverse their position the moment the next piece of highly "bang for buck" Siglent test equipment becomes available that fits their needs or they just desire. Sure, Siglent will have taken a bit of a hit from this, but in the end their customer base are largely hobbyists and smaller entities that do care about cost effectiveness and neat technical tools more than some principle issue that didn't really affect them directly. And there's pretty much only Rigol competing in roughly the same league...

// Enter RANT code here

While it may be true for most, it is not for me. As a professional designer and manufacturer it will take a multiple lifetimes for me to get past the industry crushing copycat methods that China pioneered - I have been copied multiple times with no practical recourse. The quality and cost of nearly everything in the world has plummeted to the point where quality is more and more scarce as time goes on. They are literally willing to sacrifice people in order to move up the economic food chain. The consumers around the world don't look down the road far enough to see the result of a zero sum game. Companies with a historical focus on innovation and quality are pushed out of existence either by economic force or by the mental exhaustion from having your $billion research copied in 10 minutes and sold for a fraction of your costs.

Now that we see original designs coming from Chinese companies, they are focused on being as cheap as absolutely possible. Its a 'good enough' attitude that perpetuates in an environment (electrical engineering) that was founded on precision and perfection. My attraction to engineering is the pursuit of innovation, efficiency, cleverness, usefulness, and reliability among other things. I want my instruments to be designed and manufactured by like minded individuals. I thought I was shedding this negative outlook on Chinese companies when I started seeing original designs from Rigol and Siglent but every time I take a close look, its crappy shit that is so focused on the low cost that it actually becomes cheap.

When I started transitioning my business from primarily mechanical to primarily electronics, I thought the low-cost gear was a great way to start. It wasn't. Fiddly, buggy, unreliable brand new stuff. It was a terrible way to save money since it wasted so much time. I fairly quickly started looking at and buying A brand used gear that was 10-15 years old and life has been great - that is a great way to save money and get the bench utility I was after. Agilent, Tek, Keithley and others that are old eBay finds have been WAY better at facilitating my engineering efforts than the Rigol and other Chinese brands I have tried (no, I have not bothered with Siglent). I don't want to 'hack' or modify my gear. I don't want to have to fiddle with it and search the internet for workarounds. I don't want surprise limitations. If I can't afford the latest Agilent whiz-bang toy - I buy the best used option I can find. I have moved up far faster and saved more money after getting a bench full of old great stuff to replace the new crap stuff. It's bigger and heavier and I like it more.

I have only recently gone PRO, I have been an enthusiast and hobbyist since I was a very young boy. Marginal tools waste time and create frustration that take away the from the desired achievement.

// End RANT code

[Lightages]

rx8pilot:

Please correct your post as you are attributing the quote to me and I never said that.

Edit:

Thanks for fixing the quote attribution, but it is repeated below. These are not my words.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

// Enter RANT code here

While it may be true for most, it is not for me. As a professional designer and manufacturer it will take a multiple lifetimes for me to get past the industry crushing copycat methods that China pioneered - I have been copied multiple times with no practical recourse. The quality and cost of nearly everything in the world has plummeted to the point where quality is more and more scarce as time goes on. They are literally willing to sacrifice people in order to move up the economic food chain. The consumers around the world don't look down the road far enough to see the result of a zero sum game. Companies with a historical focus on innovation and quality are pushed out of existence either by economic force or by the mental exhaustion from having your $billion research copied in 10 minutes and sold for a fraction of your costs.

Now that we see original designs coming from Chinese companies, they are focused on being as cheap as absolutely possible. Its a 'good enough' attitude that perpetuates in an environment (electrical engineering) that was founded on precision and perfection. My attraction to engineering is the pursuit of innovation, efficiency, cleverness, usefulness, and reliability among other things. I want my instruments to be designed and manufactured by like minded individuals. I thought I was shedding this negative outlook on Chinese companies when I started seeing original designs from Rigol and Siglent but every time I take a close look, its crappy shit that is so focused on the low cost that it actually becomes cheap.

When I started transitioning my business from primarily mechanical to primarily electronics, I thought the low-cost gear was a great way to start. It wasn't. Fiddly, buggy, unreliable brand new stuff. It was a terrible way to save money since it wasted so much time. I fairly quickly started looking at and buying A brand used gear that was 10-15 years old and life has been great - that is a great way to save money and get the bench utility I was after. Agilent, Tek, Keithley and others that are old eBay finds have been WAY better at facilitating my engineering efforts than the Rigol and other Chinese brands I have tried (no, I have not bothered with Siglent). I don't want to 'hack' or modify my gear. I don't want to have to fiddle with it and search the internet for workarounds. I don't want surprise limitations. If I can't afford the latest Agilent whiz-bang toy - I buy the best used option I can find. I have moved up far faster and saved more money after getting a bench full of old great stuff to replace the new crap stuff. It's bigger and heavier and I like it more.

I have only recently gone PRO, I have been an enthusiast and hobbyist since I was a very young boy. Marginal tools waste time and create frustration that take away the from the desired achievement.

// End RANT code

I agree with you on some points and then I don't on others.

I started off when we had pretty much very little options. As you pretty much only had a select few companies around and didn't have companies like Rigol, or Siglent. So only option was to stay at the lab a few extra hours, if available, or rent the equipment, or buy it used, if you wanted to complete a project, when you were just starting off. When Rigol and Siglent came to the picture they change the market for the good, so hobbyists and smaller entities can get a affordable scope and other test equipment that will suit most needs without having to spend thousands and get into electronics and become engineers at some point. Plus it push the bigger names to become more innovated as they were getting lazy and just going by the success they had in the pass. 

The best engineers make do with what they have available to them. Yes marginal tools is for the most part a waste time and create frustration, but I always state buy what you can afford at the time, it better then having nothing and most will still be successful in projects. As it not about having the best tools, but having good focus and determination to complete the goal even in a stressful situation with lack of having the best gear available to them. Sometime perfection can cause more issues then you are trying to solve.

Plus most entry level to mid price equipment from HP, B&K precision and lecroy is made by Rigol, or Siglent and just rebadged with a much higher price tag.

Now with that said still a lot to be desire. I personally see more hope for Siglent, then I do Rigol, as Rigol is just cutting corner on hardware and raising price on surpar gear and no longer what they were when they started off. I just see them cutting way to many corners that can't be fix with a firmware update. Siglent on the hand actually has some talent people on their team and can design very good hardware The problem is software development team is behind, one area they need to improve if they want to be taken serious. The SDG2122X proof that to me that they can make good equipment. They just have to improve on certain areas and think they have the potential to surpass some of the bigger names.

[rx8pilot]

It's fairly easy to see the re-badged gear in general. I am ALWAYS out for the bargain - every second of every day it seems. What I learned in a couple of decades of owning various businesses is that a 'bargain' is not the the option with the lowest price, its the option with the lowest cost. I tend to add up all the costs/benefit ratio - acquisition cost, operation cost, learning curve, reliability, capability, resale, etc. It is rare that the lowest purchase price is the one with the best cost/benefit ratio in a professional context. It happens a lot more in the hobby market when the goal is to learn the basics and there is not real pressure. For the most part though, in my various hobbies I tended to scale the scope of the hobby to allow me to have the good tools to do it. If I couldn't afford the good tools, I would generally scale the project back a bit. That was because even without the pressure of being a profitable business that I make a living from - I don't like to be frustrated in my free time hobbies any more than I would at work.

eBay and other used gear outlets have really helped. There seems to be an endless supply of gear being shed by big businesses everywhere. That market gives me access to really nice and capable gear for a fraction of the original cost. My little business is growing and I am getting closer and closer to being able to afford the newer and more capable options from the big companies. it seems to be working in my case anyway. I focus the vast majority of my energy on the engineering and end product - not fiddling with T&M. I see the T&M as a necessary evil to give me a human view of the circuit behavior. I do not want the T&M to be part of the project, I simply want them to be a tool that facilitates the completion of the project.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

It's fairly easy to see the re-badged gear in general. I am ALWAYS out for the bargain - every second of every day it seems. What I learned in a couple of decades of owning various businesses is that a 'bargain' is not the the option with the lowest price, its the option with the lowest cost. I tend to add up all the costs/benefit ratio - acquisition cost, operation cost, learning curve, reliability, capability, resale, etc. It is rare that the lowest purchase price is the one with the best cost/benefit ratio in a professional context. It happens a lot more in the hobby market when the goal is to learn the basics and there is not real pressure. For the most part though, in my various hobbies I tended to scale the scope of the hobby to allow me to have the good tools to do it. If I couldn't afford the good tools, I would generally scale the project back a bit. That was because even without the pressure of being a profitable business that I make a living from - I don't like to be frustrated in my free time hobbies any more than I would at work.

eBay and other used gear outlets have really helped. There seems to be an endless supply of gear being shed by big businesses everywhere. That market gives me access to really nice and capable gear for a fraction of the original cost. My little business is growing and I am getting closer and closer to being able to afford the newer and more capable options from the big companies. it seems to be working in my case anyway. I focus the vast majority of my energy on the engineering and end product - not fiddling with T&M. I see the T&M as a necessary evil to give me a human view of the circuit behavior. I do not want the T&M to be part of the project, I simply want them to be a tool that facilitates the completion of the project.

I agree with you on the bargain part not always being a great bargain as it seem. That true even in consumer line of product especially. Never seen lowest purchase price is the one with the best cost/benefit ratio in a professional, or consumer world. Just to many corners cut to get it down to that price point and resale value is not good for that reason when compare to a big name. Then again some come along way from be toy grade to becoming more serious and is changing the market as we know it and price of older gear has dropped as a result and pushing big name to become more innovated, instead of relying on old designs from many years ago. So in a way I am glad companies like Rigol and Siglent are around.

[rx8pilot]

Then again some come along way from be toy grade to becoming more serious and is changing the market as we know it and price of older gear has dropped as a result and pushing big name to become more innovated, instead of relying on old designs from many years ago. So in a way I am glad companies like Rigol and Siglent are around.

In my industry - motion picture cameras - it used to be dominated by very purpose designed and VERY expensive equipment. The people and companies that designed, sold, rented, and operated these cameras were very sharp dedicated professionals. They had to be with that much money involved. It was not unusual for a camera package to be $500k US or more. Everyone was serious about doing a great job every time.

Enter, the digital age around 2000 when digital cameras first starting nipping at the heals of the film based cameras. What was the rally cry? "Digital will save you money" and just like that, the industry changed from focusing on quality to quantity. The cost of the cameras and all the associated gear plummeted to ground. Now the industry has a microscopic high-end and the majority is covered by the 'how cheap can we do this' mentality. Even the 'high-end' is what the previous middle ground was. There is no one and no company left that is focusing on quality - price is king as long as it sorta kinda gets the job done. The race to bottom has no winners. Now we have an industry that is working a micro margins and there is little motivation for any companies to put up major R&D money.

There is a price to be paid when the market demands cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. The companies that make the good stuff go away, shrink, or move into another market. We will be left with only Rigol and Siglent while Agilent and similar business just focus on the $100k+ exotic instruments.

[Lightages]

OldSchoolTechCorner:

Please correct the attribution of the quote in the following post. It was not me. Please check the correction where you originally quoted from.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-'wrongful-trademark-claim'/msg788577/#msg788577

[timb]

OldSchoolTechCorner:

Please correct the attribution of the quote in the following post. It was not me. Please check the correction where you originally quoted from.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-'wrongful-trademark-claim'/msg788577/#msg788577

What are you talking about? He quoted rx8' in that post.


Sent from my Tablet

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

OldSchoolTechCorner:

Please correct the attribution of the quote in the following post. It was not me. Please check the correction where you originally quoted from.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-'wrongful-trademark-claim'/msg788577/#msg788577

I quoted RX8, but has been fixed

[rx8pilot]

OldSchoolTechCorner:

Please correct the attribution of the quote in the following post. It was not me. Please check the correction where you originally quoted from.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-'wrongful-trademark-claim'/msg788577/#msg788577

What are you talking about? He quoted rx8' in that post.


Sent from my Tablet

That got confused when I went back and corrected my post, now it is out of context. I did, indeed, misquote.

[Lightages]

Thanks for the corrections.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Then again some come along way from be toy grade to becoming more serious and is changing the market as we know it and price of older gear has dropped as a result and pushing big name to become more innovated, instead of relying on old designs from many years ago. So in a way I am glad companies like Rigol and Siglent are around.

In my industry - motion picture cameras - it used to be dominated by very purpose designed and VERY expensive equipment. The people and companies that designed, sold, rented, and operated these cameras were very sharp dedicated professionals. They had to be with that much money involved. It was not unusual for a camera package to be $500k US or more. Everyone was serious about doing a great job every time.

Enter, the digital age around 2000 when digital cameras first starting nipping at the heals of the film based cameras. What was the rally cry? "Digital will save you money" and just like that, the industry changed from focusing on quality to quantity. The cost of the cameras and all the associated gear plummeted to ground. Now the industry has a microscopic high-end and the majority is covered by the 'how cheap can we do this' mentality. Even the 'high-end' is what the previous middle ground was. There is no one and no company left that is focusing on quality - price is king as long as it sorta kinda gets the job done. The race to bottom has no winners. Now we have an industry that is working a micro margins and there is little motivation for any companies to put up major R&D money.

There is a price to be paid when the market demands cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. The companies that make the good stuff go away, shrink, or move into another market. We will be left with only Rigol and Siglent while Agilent and similar business just focus on the $100k+ exotic instruments.

I do like quality equipment, as can trust it and started off with Agilent and Tektronix equipment, as that what was around. But test equipment is nothing like a mass marketed item at all. Most people buy test equipment when needed and keep till it breaks, or they need something better in most cases. HP/Agilent/Keysight and Tektronix now are coming out with newer much better equipment as a result of Siglent and Rigol. It actually had the quite opposite effect. They were getting lazy for a while and charging quite a bit more over the years for dated technology and R&D from many years ago, due to lack of competition. Now even Chinese companies like Siglent and Rigol are more then just toy grade and coming out with more serious equipment and very useful to most.

[KE5FX]

Enter, the digital age around 2000 when digital cameras first starting nipping at the heals of the film based cameras. What was the rally cry? "Digital will save you money" and just like that, the industry changed from focusing on quality to quantity. The cost of the cameras and all the associated gear plummeted to ground. Now the industry has a microscopic high-end and the majority is covered by the 'how cheap can we do this' mentality. Even the 'high-end' is what the previous middle ground was. There is no one and no company left that is focusing on quality - price is king as long as it sorta kinda gets the job done. The race to bottom has no winners. Now we have an industry that is working a micro margins and there is little motivation for any companies to put up major R&D money.

There is a price to be paid when the market demands cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. The companies that make the good stuff go away, shrink, or move into another market. We will be left with only Rigol and Siglent while Agilent and similar business just focus on the $100k+ exotic instruments.

But how do the new cheap race-to-the-bottom cameras perform compared to the old-school $500K models?  They pretty much blow them into the weeds, don't they?

And how do you put a price tag on the renaissance that's taken place in the indy film scene, now that you don't have to sell your body to drug-testing companies to afford cameras and film?

It's not about the camera.

[KE5FX]

Enter, the digital age around 2000 when digital cameras first starting nipping at the heals of the film based cameras. What was the rally cry? "Digital will save you money" and just like that, the industry changed from focusing on quality to quantity. The cost of the cameras and all the associated gear plummeted to ground. Now the industry has a microscopic high-end and the majority is covered by the 'how cheap can we do this' mentality. Even the 'high-end' is what the previous middle ground was. There is no one and no company left that is focusing on quality - price is king as long as it sorta kinda gets the job done. The race to bottom has no winners. Now we have an industry that is working a micro margins and there is little motivation for any companies to put up major R&D money.

There is a price to be paid when the market demands cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. The companies that make the good stuff go away, shrink, or move into another market. We will be left with only Rigol and Siglent while Agilent and similar business just focus on the $100k+ exotic instruments.

But how do the new cheap race-to-the-bottom cameras perform compared to the old-school $500K models?  They pretty much blow them into the weeds, don't they?  Maybe not at the very bottom of the market, but I'll bet that nobody with a modern $50K camera would be willing to go back to one of the $500K jobs, even if you gave it to him/her.

And how do you put a price tag on the renaissance that's taken place in the indy film scene, now that you don't have to sell your body to drug-testing companies to afford cameras and film?

It's not about the camera.

[KE5FX]

Enter, the digital age around 2000 when digital cameras first starting nipping at the heals of the film based cameras. What was the rally cry? "Digital will save you money" and just like that, the industry changed from focusing on quality to quantity. The cost of the cameras and all the associated gear plummeted to ground. Now the industry has a microscopic high-end and the majority is covered by the 'how cheap can we do this' mentality. Even the 'high-end' is what the previous middle ground was. There is no one and no company left that is focusing on quality - price is king as long as it sorta kinda gets the job done. The race to bottom has no winners. Now we have an industry that is working a micro margins and there is little motivation for any companies to put up major R&D money.

There is a price to be paid when the market demands cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. The companies that make the good stuff go away, shrink, or move into another market. We will be left with only Rigol and Siglent while Agilent and similar business just focus on the $100k+ exotic instruments.

But how do the new cheap race-to-the-bottom cameras perform compared to the old-school $500K models?  They pretty much blow them into the weeds, don't they?  Maybe not at the very bottom of the market, but I'll bet that nobody with a modern $50K camera would be willing to go back to one of the $500K jobs, even if you gave it to him/her.

And how do you put a price tag on the renaissance that's taken place in the indy film scene, now that you don't have to sell your body to drug-testing companies to afford cameras and film?

It's not about the camera.

[Bassman59]

Enter, the digital age around 2000 when digital cameras first starting nipping at the heals of the film based cameras. What was the rally cry? "Digital will save you money" and just like that, the industry changed from focusing on quality to quantity. The cost of the cameras and all the associated gear plummeted to ground. Now the industry has a microscopic high-end and the majority is covered by the 'how cheap can we do this' mentality. Even the 'high-end' is what the previous middle ground was. There is no one and no company left that is focusing on quality - price is king as long as it sorta kinda gets the job done. The race to bottom has no winners. Now we have an industry that is working a micro margins and there is little motivation for any companies to put up major R&D money.

There is a price to be paid when the market demands cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. The companies that make the good stuff go away, shrink, or move into another market. We will be left with only Rigol and Siglent while Agilent and similar business just focus on the $100k+ exotic instruments.

But how do the new cheap race-to-the-bottom cameras perform compared to the old-school $500K models?  They pretty much blow them into the weeds, don't they?

And how do you put a price tag on the renaissance that's taken place in the indy film scene, now that you don't have to sell your body to drug-testing companies to afford cameras and film?

It's not about the camera.

Drifting WAY off topic here, but I see the same thing in the professional audio industry, both on the live sound end and in the recording studio.

[rx8pilot]

And how do you put a price tag on the renaissance that's taken place in the indy film scene, now that you don't have to sell your body to drug-testing companies to afford cameras and film?

It's not about the camera.

The problem with the current state is that the cameras and a lot of the most common support gear is a lot less reliable and a pain in the ass. Discipline has given way to just guessing your way through the day until you get something that looks good. It is easy to have an image sensor that captures an image. It is FAR FAR FAR harder to integrate that into the motion picture environment. You are right, it's not about the camera - its about the whole system. The flexibility and reliability of the system are crucial. A DSLR on a big job sucks beyond description primarily because of operational reasons.

The plummeting costs are good for entry level projects like indy films. They are generally produced by younger people that are willing to deal with all the stupid shit that would nearly shutdown a big show. While they make the indy film with a DSLR, they learn to hack, work around, and lower expectations. None of this translates to big shows. There are massive numbers of people doing indy work looking for CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP and they are willing to work with the limits of the result. The companies that support the top end of the market see less and less business available at the higher altitudes. They focus on the big volume crap as a matter of survival.


Shouldn't get too far off topic...just seeing a parallel with the growing appetite for cheap and marginal gear.  I do, see the big boys making new and fresh gear but of course the price is still there. Only time will tell if enough are sold with 'competition' being half price or less. If the latest generation of basic instrument sales - DMMs, Sig Gens, PSU's, goes toward low cost - the big companies will phase that stuff out - not cut the price in half. The last options standing will be the worst stuff on the market.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Shouldn't get too far off topic...just seeing a parallel with the growing appetite for cheap and marginal gear.  I do, see the big boys making new and fresh gear but of course the price is still there. Only time will tell if enough are sold with 'competition' being half price or less. If the latest generation of basic instrument sales - DMMs, Sig Gens, PSU's, goes toward low cost - the big companies will phase that stuff out - not cut the price in half. The last options standing will be the worst stuff on the market.

It not the same game. I likely doubt that big companies will phase that stuff out and the worst stuff on the market. Test equipment, is different, if anything the stuff you consider the worst stuff is getting much better and suspect one of these companies will step it up and fill in the void and doubt that big companies will go away. They don't have the cut throat competition, as you do with most consumer goods. The profit margins are pretty good on test equipment and a lot of room for another player in the market. People that are in this field are highly intelligent and do their homework before investing in new gear and in most cases not about the cheapest option, but more of what will get the job done. It a way different market.

[rx8pilot]

It not the same game. I likely doubt that big companies will phase that stuff out and the worst stuff on the market. Test equipment, is different, if anything the stuff you consider the worst stuff is getting much better and suspect one of these companies will step it up and fill in the void and doubt that big companies will go away. They don't have the cut throat competition, as you do with most consumer goods. The profit margins are pretty good on test equipment and a lot of room for another player in the market. People that are in this field are highly intelligent and do their homework before investing in new gear and in most cases not about the cheapest option, but more of what will get the job done. It a way different market.

I hope I am wrong. These things happen slowly and most don't notice until the industry has taken a permanent turn. If there really is a good margin available, I would like to see a head-to-head competitor come in to compete by making a more efficient company.

[Kappes Buur]

Reading this thread for the last couple of hours was most entertaining.

Seems to me that the whole debacle could have been avoided if both sides were more familiar with the english language.

Certainly OldSchoolTechCorner did not help his case by advertising the Siglent SDG5122 as Item condition:New other (see details), rather than specifying right off as Used, and selling through a company Seller: mastertechtrading probably was what set off the bells at Siglent China. The 'intern' not reading further than that did not help either.

I find it very interesting how Siglent, China and America, handled this situation. It does not inspire much confidence in their business acumen. I just feel sorry for the Siglent dealers who have to deal with the aftermath.

Funny how in Reply #145 they cannot get OldSchoolTechCorner's name right.

[jancumps]

....

Certainly OldSchoolTechCorner did not help his case by advertising the Siglent SDG5122 as Item condition:New other (see details), rather than specifying right off as Used, and selling through a company Seller: mastertechtrading probably was what set off the bells at Siglent China. The 'intern' not reading further than that did not help either.

..

It's not relevant. Also a new scope from a grey market dealer sold too cheap should not be removed using the methods Siglent used.

[Zero999]

I've finally read the whole thread.

How about messaging ebay sellers who have had their Siglent items removed, asking them if Siglent had taken them down?

I have previously thought about buying Siglent equipment when I was looking for a new 'scope but never did. I have a Rigol DS1054Z (hacked of course) and an Owon SDS7102V with a battery and both suit my needs. I didn't consider Siglent because they didn't seem to offer anything of better for the same price and there isn't so much know about the hackability.

After this I can't see myself ever buying Siglent now.

[edavid]

Certainly OldSchoolTechCorner did not help his case by advertising the Siglent SDG5122 as Item condition:New other (see details)

Why do you say that?  He said that he listed it as Used:

It was listed as used when I listed it on eBay, as it was used but mint condition.