Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[eTobey]

Local NTP server to fix the scopes time issue (Win7/10)

I got a kind of satisfying solution to have the right time in the scope. Unfortunately it requires a LAN connection to a Win7/10 PC. It uses the build-in NTP-Server in windows. It requires modifying the registry, which can be fatal for the OS if you screw up!

Steps:
1. Change HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\TimeProviders\NtpServer Enabled = 1
2. Set        HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\config announceFlags = 5
3. Start/restart Windows time service (set to autostart)
4. Open port 123 (UDP) in your firewall

Fixed IPs are used in my setup. Nothing else is on the LAN.

[bateau020]

Why would this be needed? Why can't you use the same NTP server (or pool) for the scope as the one that the workstations use (be it Linux, Mac or Windows)?

[2N3055]

Local NTP server to fix the scopes time issue (Win7/10)

I got a kind of satisfying solution to have the right time in the scope. Unfortunately it requires a LAN connection to a Win7/10 PC. It uses the build-in NTP-Server in windows. It requires modifying the registry, which can be fatal for the OS if you screw up!

Steps:
1. Change HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\TimeProviders\NtpServer Enabled = 1
2. Set        HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\config announceFlags = 5
3. Start/restart Windows time service (set to autostart)
4. Open port 123 (UDP) in your firewall

Fixed IPs are used in my setup. Nothing else is on the LAN.

What scope time issue?

[Zucca]

make a battery hack would not be that hard.
2 LiIon in series pack (risky... 8.4V max, may charge only until 7.6V [3.8V/cell]) and a 15Vdc step up for the FAN.

I am pretty sure the 6.5v rail goes to voltage regulators only, and is never used directly. Interesting would be to use a lab power supply to find the cutoff voltage.

oh yeah!
And let's put a diode in series to the battery pack so you can safely use the grid PSU at the same time and it will help to lower the batt voltage as well... I know it is a waste of power, but IMHO a good compromise.

Also a battery power scope is ground floating... so you can "more safely" stick the ground where you want in your grid power DUT....
Of course a diff high voltage probe is the way to go... but if you know what you are doing....

[BillyO]

Local NTP server to fix the scopes time issue (Win7/10)

Do you not have Internet access?

[Furna]

Welcome to the forum.

There's a few links in the first post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/

There's also a few videos now appearing on YouTube that should be easy to find with a simple search

Uhmmm the "Oscilloscope tutorial" search I just did on Youtube, returns always the very same stuff; definitely usefull for a beginners but not really "appearing now".

Thanks!  I've found it easy to find reviews and demonstrations showing off the scope but they all seem to assume a level of knowing what you want to do and ignoring a lot of beginner why and when motivations.  I don't have any formal training and minimal prior usage from years ago -- I'll do some more searching and couple those links to some more generic beginner vids if need be.  Thanks

This is EEVBlog so let's promote the host's playlist on Oscilloscopes
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvOlSehNtuHsCTtj-T_vkpTTbBXW4sB51

There are also some good video series from other vendor different than Siglent (really just search "Oscilloscope tutorial" on YouTube).
While they are obviously focusing on their own brand's oscilloscopes, they are really instructive and the concepts explained are absolutely valid for every brand's oscilloscopes.

[BillyO]

Uhmmm the "Oscilloscope tutorial" search I just did on Youtube, returns always the very same stuff; definitely usefull for a beginners but not really "appearing now".

I may be mistaken, but I take this as "They use CROs!"

A) The nice thing about CROs is that, some specialty/very high end units aside, they have have the same basic control structures.  The basics, triggering, horizontal sweep rte, vertical attenuation are all fairly common and accessible without digging through menus and context based controls.   Learning on one scope is generally applicable to all.  As well, the basic concepts are still there in today's most sophisticated digital scopes.  Triggering, horizontal sweep rate and attenuation are still the bomb, as it were.

B) What "modern" scope would you base your tutorial on to make it a "just released blockbuster"?  Maybe the new Keysight?  Sure, then when our young newbie buys a Rigol or a Siglent, tek, GW Instek - whatever - and is then thwarted by the fact that Keysight hide that control in a different menu that the others and call it something else, or give some basic function a completely different UI.  What to do?  Re-do the tutorial series for every brand of scope on the market?

If the newbie really has no basic concept of what a scope does, how are they to decide how to apply what they learned on a Keysight to the Siglent they just bought when the front panels are dissimilar and the menus are completely different?

Interesting problem to solve..

 

[Grandchuck]

Uhmmm the "Oscilloscope tutorial" search I just did on Youtube, returns always the very same stuff; definitely usefull for a beginners but not really "appearing now".

I may be mistaken, but I take this as "They use CROs!"

A) The nice thing about CROs is that, some specialty/very high end units aside, they have have the same basic control structures.  The basics, triggering, horizontal sweep rte, vertical attenuation are all fairly common and accessible without digging through menus and context based controls.   Learning on one scope is generally applicable to all.  As well, the basic concepts are still there in today's most sophisticated digital scopes.  Triggering, horizontal sweep rate and attenuation are still the bomb, as it were.

B) What "modern" scope would you base your tutorial on to make it a "just released blockbuster"?  Maybe the new Keysight?  Sure, then when our young newbie buys a Rigol or a Siglent, tek, GW Instek - whatever - and is then thwarted by the fact that Keysight hide that control in a different menu that the others and call it something else, or give some basic function a completely different UI.  What to do?  Re-do the tutorial series for every brand of scope on the market?

If the newbie really has no basic concept of what a scope does, how are they to decide how to apply what they learned on a Keysight to the Siglent they just bought when the front panels are dissimilar and the menus are completely different?

Interesting problem to solve..

 

It is an interesting problem.  CRO oscilloscopes were more similar to each other.  Many modern oscilloscopes are computers with signal capture.  The learning curve can be steep and there seems to be more confusion and disagreement about selecting and using them. 

[Furna]

I may be mistaken, but I take this as "They use CROs!"

For the newbie:
- CRO => Cathodic Raytube Cathode Ray Oscilloscope (the old stuff)
- DSO => Digital Storage Oscilloscope (the new stuff)

No I didn't mean "They use CROs!" ... there are also videos that are already about DSO but anyway 2 to 10 years old.
Indeed Dave's list I linked goes back to 15 years ago.

[watchmaker]

I do not know what is acceptable noise and would appreciate input.  Using a Sig SDG 1064X ans Sig SDS 824X.

Here is the scenario.  I have put all switching PSUs on a single switched outlet box.  I do have LED ceiling lites.  I am in the basement, very rural area.

AWG to provide 2mV 1000Hz.  Coax with 50 feedthrough.

Below are my print screens. 

Trace with all lights.
Trace with no lights (PSU swtiched off and no overhead)
Zoom on square
Zoom on sine.

Am I being anal?  Should I contact Siglent?

Just noticed I forgot to change my input from 10x to 1x; but that is just scaling

THANKS!

[Performa01]

Am I being anal?  Should I contact Siglent?

Siglent can't help you with this.

A direct 50 ohm coax connection should be absolutely (external) noise-free, This prosumes high quality cabling in perfect condition and a true 50 ohm input on the scope - or at least a perfectly shielded through terminator. Furthermore the absence of any ground loop by having generator and scope connected essentially  to the same mains connector.

However the expectations should not grow unrealistic. 5 mV/div with a 10X probe means a true 500 µV/div sensitivity of the scope input. The zoom view shows even only 100 µV/div. And you run this test at full bandwidth!

Long story short, 600 µVpp noise at full bandwidth as seen in the zoom view appears pretty acceptable.

[watchmaker]

Am I being anal?  Should I contact Siglent?

Siglent can't help you with this.

A direct 50 ohm coax connection should be absolutely (external) noise-free, This prosumes high quality cabling in perfect condition and a true 50 ohm input on the scope - or at least a perfectly shielded through terminator. Furthermore the absence of any ground loop by having generator and scope connected essentially  to the same mains connector.

However the expectations should not grow unrealistic. 5 mV/div with a 10X probe means a true 500 µV/div sensitivity of the scope input. The zoom view shows even only 100 µV/div. And you run this test at full bandwidth!

Long story short, 600 µVpp noise at full bandwidth as seen in the zoom view appears pretty acceptable.

Thank you.  Yes scope and gen are in the same outlet bar.  Looks like it is my anal personality and not Siglent. 

I have even gone so far as to make a generator output cable from a scope probe by cutting a 50 ohm BNC cable and taking apart the probe (old Agilent 1x that had a 3 part body; unsure how to do this with the molded probe bodies).

This was so that I had a shielded output all the way to the DUT.  The Agilent probe shank is encased in a nylon insulator which is then surrounded by a metal case that is tied to the cable shield by a threaded bushing that is intended to be crimped (soldered the shield).  The center conductor is attached to the probe shank mechanically; the end of the shank is barbed and the center conductor and the barb are force fitted into a hole in a nylon insulator.

I am by myself and appreciate the reality check.  Will now use the BW limiter more.

[Martin72]

And you run this test at full bandwidth!

SDG2122X, SDS3104X HD, internal 50 ohms, excellent coaxial cable (thanks to Performa01)....
With 20M bandwithlimit(there´s no need to have full bandwith on a signal at 1kHz), full bandwith 1Ghz...

[mawyatt]

Something that may help is a Common Mode Choke on the Mains cable.

Here's what our 814 looks like, CH1 (Yellow) is full BW and Direct Cable to AWG (SDG2042X) CH1. CH3 (Blue) is 20MHz BW Direct Cable to AWG CH2.

Our lab is quite noisy, with all sorts of potential interference sources, and the CM Chokes did help slightly, altho not as much as we would have liked

Note the 4th peak in the CH1 waveform, you can see how the "Noise" is reduced for ~ cycle of the 1KHz signal, then comes back on the next cycle. We've captured a number of screens and can see this happening often.

Guess the real solution for quiet measurements is to unplug everything in the house/lab/office and whole neighborhood, and turn off all cell phones

Of course YMMV.

Best,

[Martin72]

Playing around a bit more...
PNG 3 shows the noise when:
- no connection
- only the BNC cable is connected, other end open
- BNC cable connected to the generator that is switched off
In other words, in all three cases, there is no change, which speaks in favor of the BNC cable.
PNG 5 shows the noise when the generator is switched on (without switching on the output).

[watchmaker]

Thank you all.^