Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[2N3055]

Just the fact that we can even mention MXO4 when comparing function parity is telltale sign how good little Siglent is. MXO4 costs 5-10X more..

But even on base specs they are quite different oscilloscopes.  For example

• the SDS2000X HD has bandwidth of 100 - 350 MHz, MXO4 has bandwidth of 200 MHz to 1.5 GHz
• the SDS2000X HD has max update rate of 100,000 wfms/sec, MXO4 has max update rate of 4,500,000 wfms/sec
• the SDS2000X HD has max memory depth of 200 Mpts/channel, MXO4 has max update rate of 400 Mpts/channel
• the SDS2000X HD has max sample rate of 2 GSa/sec, MXO4 has max sample rate of 5 Ga/sec

As per Siglent, the highest end model (SDS2354X HD / 350 MHz) is 4,145 USD.  A 350 MHz MXO4 (whose base specs are over twice that of the Siglent), lists for USD 13,400.  So not exactly "5-10X more"

https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/rs-mxo-4-oscilloscope_63493-1164992.html

And there is a LOT more to a scope than even these base specs.  I would invite you to do a side-by-side compare of FFT functionality, for example.

Not casting shade on Siglent - they have come a long way - but the model that you mention isn't anywhere close to being a competitor to the MXO4.

R&S is legendary company, and I have great respect for it..

Hence the statement:

Just the fact that we can even mention MXO4 when comparing function parity is telltale sign how good little Siglent is. MXO4 costs 5-10X more..

I wasn't saying it was competitor. That is obviously not the case.
But this is something that A brands seems to not understand well..

Form a marketing perspective A brands make these (frankly arbitrary) categories.
So Keysight makes MSOX 4000 that is pretty much identical to MSOX3000T (4000 has one more AWG CH, bigger screen, slightly more BW on one model but with same sample rate so you can use it only with2 ch enabled,and some more little things of difference) and then the call 3000T upper low end class and 4000 a midrange scope.
To me, as user all I see is bigger screen. You cannot measure anything more with it. It has no benefits (apart from screen).
To user, if 4000 is mid range so is 3000T/G, albeit slightly inferior. But there is pretty much no work you cannot do with 3000T that 4000 would.
To user they are same class of instrument capability.

We (customers) really  don't care what manufacturers would like to classify them to be.

So if I'm happy enough with a 10" screen, I don't need FFT or triggers to be that fast  and I'm happy with 500 MHz BW, SDS2000X HD can do MORE types of different work for me than MXO4 right now. In that case they are the same class of usefulness.

I know, and I stated that, that I'm fully aware R&S will develop the MXO4 to a proper beast, given time.  I expect no less from them.
But you are correct, that partial and "pick and choose" "comparison" is not right. It just out of place. You are right. And it muddied the point.

I should have compared SDS2000X HD to RTB2000 or RTM3000 (500MHz version) and 2000X HD would still have many advantages and generally compare favorably to those two. They are much more expensive still. Good scopes though.

And that is, like you said, a statement how far has Siglent developed and has bridged the gap that was once quite substantial, in all segments.
Where R&S really shines is in the high end, where in many areas, not even the really big names can contest them...

Our eastern friends still have a way to go there....
But in lower and mid segments they caught up and even lead sometimes in some details.

[pdenisowski]

Form a marketing perspective A brands make these (frankly arbitrary) categories.
....
We (customers) really  don't care what manufacturers would like to classify them to be.

When we (R&S) first started making oscilloscopes, we just named them like we did our other products.  Then we got a lot (and I mean a lot) of feedback from customers who wanted to know what "class" a given R&S oscilloscope fell into:  a "1(000)" series, a "2(000)" series, etc.  So now we name / categorize them that way as well.

This does of course beg the question as to who decides the criteria for a given "category" or "class" of oscilloscope.  But all the "A" oscilloscope manufacturers do this, and it appears even the "B" manufacturers (which is where I would put Siglent, Rigol, etc.) are starting to conform to this convention.

[tv84]

But all the "A" oscilloscope manufacturers do this, and it appears even the "B" manufacturers (which is where I would put Siglent, Rigol, etc.) are starting to conform to this convention.

I think LeCroy does what makes them happy.

[2N3055]

Form a marketing perspective A brands make these (frankly arbitrary) categories.
....
We (customers) really  don't care what manufacturers would like to classify them to be.

When we (R&S) first started making oscilloscopes, we just named them like we did our other products.  Then we got a lot (and I mean a lot) of feedback from customers who wanted to know what "class" a given R&S oscilloscope fell into:  a "1(000)" series, a "2(000)" series, etc.  So now we name / categorize them that way as well.

This does of course beg the question as to who decides the criteria for a given "category" or "class" of oscilloscope.  But all the "A" oscilloscope manufacturers do this, and it appears even the "B" manufacturers (which is where I would put Siglent, Rigol, etc.) are starting to conform to this convention.

You are absolutely correct.. That is the genesis of current xxx series separation model.
But what I see is those lines are getting blurred. It used to be clear cut but is not anymore.

Manufacturers try to do this to have some control over product lineup. Which is a logical thing.
But from what I can see, A brands are more stringent in enforcing that lesser model have very basic functionality compared to higher models.
B brands actually give more (are more feature rich) than A brands in lower end, they are kind of equal in the mid range, and then A brands have very strong high ends that B brands have no equivalent. Siglent and Rigol have no 110 GHz scopes. Yet  .

This very SDS800X HD is example of very advanced math and analytical capability in what is entry level scope....

[pdenisowski]

This very SDS800X HD is example of very advanced math and analytical capability in what is entry level scope....

I'd be very curious to know how severely acquisition rate (waveform update rate) is affected by math processing on the Siglent.  Math often has a very noticeable effect on acquisition rate depending on how it's implemented.

[pdenisowski]

you can simply type as an expression in 2000X HD and use up only one math channel.

So you're saying you'd like a math equation editor on the MXO?

[2N3055]

you can simply type as an expression in 2000X HD and use up only one math channel.

So you're saying you'd like a math equation editor on the MXO?

It would be fitting addition, yes. To be blunt, I would expect one on MXO level.
As I have been saying, despite occasional jesting, I fully expect that current state of MXO series capabilities is such only because of very aggressive release schedule. I always presumed that platform will be fully developed with features with time.

[2N3055]

This very SDS800X HD is example of very advanced math and analytical capability in what is entry level scope....

I'd be very curious to know how severely acquisition rate (waveform update rate) is affected by math processing on the Siglent.  Math often has a very noticeable effect on acquisition rate depending on how it's implemented.

It probably slows down things. How much, I have no idea. I haven't seen one, even less tested or used one. But having this capability on entry level scope is fantastic, even with some slowdown.

[Martin72]

.... the "B" manufacturers (which is where I would put Siglent, Rigol, etc.)

I find it difficult to call manufacturers who have measuring devices in their portfolio for the price of a mid-range car a "B" brand.
But that is probably also a matter of which perspective you look at it from.

[pdenisowski]

So you're saying you'd like a math equation editor on the MXO?

It would be fitting addition, yes. To be blunt, I would expect one on MXO level.

And you would be right to expect that

[pdenisowski]

I find it difficult to call manufacturers who have measuring devices in their portfolio for the price of a mid-range car a "B" brand.
But that is probably also a matter of which perspective you look at it from.

B tier : portfolio includes instruments priced similar to a mid-range car
A tier : portfolio includes instruments priced similar to a mid-range house (or more)

 

But in all seriousness, you make a very good point.

[2N3055]

Soon we'll have AB class like in audio amps...

[Antonio90]

We just need more letters. If manufacturers could go down to "E" brand, "B" brand wouldn't look so bad anymore 

[Martin72]

So you're saying you'd like a math equation editor on the MXO?

It would be fitting addition, yes. To be blunt, I would expect one on MXO level.

And you would be right to expect that

Are there any other brands that have a math editor like this?
So far I've only seen it on Siglent scopes and I find it very useful.

[2N3055]

So you're saying you'd like a math equation editor on the MXO?

It would be fitting addition, yes. To be blunt, I would expect one on MXO level.

And you would be right to expect that

Are there any other brands that have a math editor like this?
So far I've only seen it on Siglent scopes and I find it very useful.

LeCroy has XDEV option where you can Create Custom Measurements and Math Functions.
Option alone cost more than decent scope..

Micsig has slightly simpler version.
If I remember correctly some GW Instek models had something simpler but it had formula input.

Formula  math is reason why I have 4 Picoscopes. And no limit on number of Math channels. I use them slightly less now for this, since Siglent has formula math, only for complicated stuff.

[rf-loop]

SDS800X HD model serie is now officially released inside China.

[Martin72]

Now we can speculate which model will also appear on the global market.
A few weeks ago siglent EU answered me that a 12 bit entry-model will be released for the global market in Q1/2024.
I don´t think it will be the 800X HD for several reasons.

[Fungus]

Now we can speculate which model will also appear on the global market.
A few weeks ago siglent EU answered me that a 12 bit entry-model will be released for the global market in Q1/2024.
I don´t think it will be the 800X HD for several reasons.

Are the reasons that they don't think they'll sell any of the profitable ones if they release the cheap one first?

[asmi]

DHO1000 is not better in terms of overall features. It has larger screen and it is great improvement for Rigol, but it is not better as a scope compared to SDS800X HD.  SDS800X HD has same sampling rate, same memory, orders of magnitude better math, better FFT, segmented and history memory mode, Histicons, Bode Plot.. pretty much all the goodies of their bigger brothers.
Which makes it more capable than even DHO4000 in math capabilities for instance.....

LOL "Absolutely not a Siglent shill"™ is busy praising scope which doesn't even exist 

[2N3055]

DHO1000 is not better in terms of overall features. It has larger screen and it is great improvement for Rigol, but it is not better as a scope compared to SDS800X HD.  SDS800X HD has same sampling rate, same memory, orders of magnitude better math, better FFT, segmented and history memory mode, Histicons, Bode Plot.. pretty much all the goodies of their bigger brothers.
Which makes it more capable than even DHO4000 in math capabilities for instance.....

LOL "Absolutely not a Siglent shill"™ is busy praising scope which doesn't even exist 

WTF ?

Are you stalking me...? You are searching for topics where you can troll me...? What?

Everything I said is true. If you don't understand that, that is your problem.
It was just released in China.

Rigol users spoke/sung praises about DHO800/900 for almost a year before it was possible to order them.
Go complain to them... There are more of them, you'll have more people to harass..

[KungFuJosh]

Are you stalking me...? You are searching for topics where you can troll me...? What?

[Mortymore]

[Martin72]

Presented on the batterfly channel...
The answer is given which entry-level 12 bit scope will come in Q1/24...

[EEVblog]

I just noticed this because the Batterfly video popped up.

Obviously will be directly compared with the Rigol 800/900
So far I see no VESA mount and no HDMI, two of the big additions to the Rigol 800/900. You could also add in USB-C power and the slim form factor, but that's always arguable.

[tautech]

I just noticed this because the Batterfly video popped up.

Obviously will be directly compared with the Rigol 800/900
So far I see no VESA mount and no HDMI, two of the big additions to the Rigol 800/900. You could also add in USB-C power and the slim form factor, but that's always arguable.

Dave, instead of locking the other SDS800X HD thread can you consider merging it into this with the blessing of the other OP, PELL ?
There is content that is worthy of being included here.