Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD

[FlexibleMammoth]

Well there is an interesting symmetry to that, then:
People who collect "improved" options for the sake of collecting are much less likely to actually use them. They do nothing except make the decoder list longer and give a warm fuzzy feeling when looking at the installed options. It also is not really a loss for siglent, because they would not have bought them anyway.

I have a SDS5000X with the promo pack and some choice options. Last month, i experimented with the rc5 bus on my CD player. Would I have done that project if I did not have the option per chance? Hell no. But as it was, i had a fun evening with friends finding out what the remote control does. Having more options than you strictly need sparks creativity, even if it is only for fun.

I would say let people have their fun - as long as these options are not misrepresented (or better, deleted) when the device is sold again.

[hpw]

I would suggest you create separate topic on this. This one is already too convoluted.

Also this forum has restrictions to attachment sizes.
Make a new topic on this and provide link to some Google drive or something to dump data and I migh help a bit with some data when time permits....

What I did for now at https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-call-for-bin-files-as-for-new-siglent-hd-models/

[FlexibleMammoth]

....the frequency depends on the frequency defined by the oscilloscope FG option.

That is interesting - then what about using the device with a PC, without an oscilloscope? Does it stay 50MHz after connecting it to a higher end scope once, or is it only 50MHz while connected?

[tautech]

....the frequency depends on the frequency defined by the oscilloscope FG option.

That is interesting - then what about using the device with a PC, without an oscilloscope? Does it stay 50MHz after connecting it to a higher end scope once, or is it only 50MHz while connected?

Only SDS3000X HD and SDS7000A provides for SAG1021I 50 MHz capability it seems.

The DSO UI controls it when used as a AWG and the DSO Bode plot feature controls it from within the BP menu.
I can't be used with other that Siglent DSO's that support it.

[Antonio90]

....the frequency depends on the frequency defined by the oscilloscope FG option.

That is interesting - then what about using the device with a PC, without an oscilloscope? Does it stay 50MHz after connecting it to a higher end scope once, or is it only 50MHz while connected?

It would be quite interesting sniffing the protocol. An isolated 2 channel, 50MHz, PC-based AWG with a small form factor  for €140 might be useful.

[tautech]

An isolated 2 channel, 50MHz, PC-based AWG with a small form factor  for €140 might be useful.

SAG1021I is single channel.

[Antonio90]

An isolated 2 channel, 50MHz, PC-based AWG with a small form factor  for €140 might be useful.

SAG1021I is single channel.

Right, my bad. I just saw the 2 BNCs and assumed 2 channels. Don't know then if it would be that good of a deal. It would be interesting nevertheless, but having two channels is really too useful.

[Martin72]

Men and their toys...
I feel 40 years younger right now, waiting for Christmas...in March.
To get used to the color of my future scope, I put our Wavesurfer on the table and have been working with it ever since.

[tautech]

And what do you think of the updated but still a few yrs old SDS3000X the west only sees as LeCroy badged ?

[egonotto]

Men and their toys...
I feel 40 years younger right now, waiting for Christmas...in March.
To get used to the color of my future scope, I put our Wavesurfer on the table and have been working with it ever since.

Hello,

You can not only get used to the color, but also to the 4 GS/s.

I'm afraid I'm even more unreasonable, but I don't want to elaborate just yet.

Best regards
egonotto

[Martin72]

And what do you think of the updated but still a few yrs old SDS3000X the west only sees as LeCroy badged ?

Before we got the Z model, we had the non-Z version here, also with 200Mhz.
It was terribly slow and had two "killer bugs", which were never fixed until the 3024Z was returned to Lecroy.
This version is significantly faster than the first, but I have to say that the SDS2000Xplus was already on a par with the WS3000Z.
The 2000X HD was clearly superior in all respects and I think the 3000X HD will be even more superior.
The main reason is probably the MAUI.
The Lecroy runs Windows CE, which, together with the MAUI, is hard on the hardware.
MAUI is brilliant in itself, for me it's the best UI, but it's excellent when there's enough horsepower, like on our Waverunner 9000 or the HDO6000B.
I wouldn't buy a WS3000 privately, it can't stand up to Siglent.
The Z version is significantly faster, but overall it is very hard on the edge, you notice it in almost every situation.
The quality of workmanship, on the other hand, is excellent.
The features are fewer than on the Siglents.
We bought it at the time to be able to continue using our Pro-Bus current clamps.
I always prefer an SDS2104Xplus to the WS3024Z for everyday use.
The situation is of course different with the Waverunner and HDO.

[Martin72]

I'm afraid I'm even more unreasonable, but I don't want to elaborate just yet

Aha..?!

[tautech]

First saw SDS3000 when visiting HQ in 2014 and at that time it was leading edge however a quick play with it revealed it was for China market only as only China UI when in Siglent colors.
Had a pic snapped with it when I was there, posted here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent_s-new-products-sds3000-series-oscilloscopes/msg558936/#msg558936

[Martin72]

Gosh, already ten years ago...Time is running.
What brought me back to Siglent (I had the SDS1104X-E as my first Siglent scope, then came the RigolMSO5000) was the SDS2000Xplus.
At that time I had only been working with Lecroy scopes for almost 17 years and immediately felt "at home" with the SDS2000Xplus.
Everything that was realized there had a solid foundation and I began to like siglent's style.
The effort to give even the cheapest model a certain professionalism, previously unknown from "B" brands.
Today I have an inkling of what their goal will be, so I appreciate all the more their efforts to continue to offer devices that everyone can afford.
What I like less is their conservatism.
Even the latest models still don't have a screen connection, and I would have liked a higher-resolution screen, at least on the 3000X HD.
But these are small things.

[tautech]

Gosh, already ten years ago...Time is running.

It is however plans are afoot for another visit to HQ later this year.

What I like less is their conservatism.
Even the latest models still don't have a screen connection, and I would have liked a higher-resolution screen, at least on the 3000X HD.
But these are small things.

Understood however every serious bench also has a PC, so with Siglent's good webservers porting the display to your PC monitor/s is so simple I quite understand why Siglent has deleted video connections from all but their high end models despite them having larger displays.

Even projection is not an insurmountable task, however you would require at least a laptop with a video Out to connect to the projector.

[Martin72]

Understood however every serious bench also has a PC, so with Siglent's good webservers porting the display to your PC monitor/s is so simple I quite understand why Siglent has deleted video connections from all but their high end models despite them having larger displays.

But it would be even simpler to be able to connect a monitor/projector directly.
That can't be rocket science when even Rigol offers this with its cheap models.
That's why I think it's an amusing quirk of Siglent, a quirk because it's not super important but would be nice to have, but Siglent obviously sees it as a feature of their Pro range.

[tautech]

Understood however every serious bench also has a PC, so with Siglent's good webservers porting the display to your PC monitor/s is so simple I quite understand why Siglent has deleted video connections from all but their high end models despite them having larger displays.

But it would be even simpler to be able to connect a monitor/projector directly.
That can't be rocket science when even Rigol offers this with its cheap models.
That's why I think it's an amusing quirk of Siglent, a quirk because it's not super important but would be nice to have, but Siglent obviously sees it as a feature of their Pro range.

I see 2 sides....
Yet dollars saved with not having Vid Out in low cost models benefits customers with small budgets.

One needs also consider that using a PC instead of just a dumb monitor allows for remote mouse use of the scope via the interactive webserver.

[egonotto]

I'm afraid I'm even more unreasonable, but I don't want to elaborate just yet

Aha..?!

Hello,

I ordered a Micsig MHO3-2504.

Best regards
egonotto

[Martin72]

I see 2 sides....
Yet dollars saved with not having Vid Out in low cost models benefits customers with small budgets.
One needs also consider that using a PC instead of just a dumb monitor allows for remote mouse use of the scope via the interactive webserver.

1) On the one hand, I would no longer consider a SDS3034X HD with 4000€ as low budget, where the lack of a video output was due to the cost.
Secondly, other manufacturers show that it is obviously no problem to install an hdmi output in cheap scopes.
2) Yes, the web server has its undisputed advantages, but other scopes have BOTH.

As I said, I don't need a video output, but I find it amusing how desperately siglent insists on only installing them in their really expensive models.

[Martin72]

Speaking of expensive...
I'll take a Wavesurfer 3034Z for comparison with the SDS3034X HD.
Take a look at the data of the Lecroy:
https://www.teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/wavesurfer-3000z-oscilloscopes/wavesurfer-3034z
The price: 10000€....
Trusting another brand would be more than worthwhile here, which is why I have now bought Siglent current clamps for work so that we are no longer so dependent on the Pro bus.
But there are two things I like about this Lecroy.
The calibration output....1khz standard, but you can adjust it from 500Hz to 1Mhz, nice.
The second is the specification of the processor system, which I would also like to see on Siglent Datasheets(edit).

Processor/CPU
Type   TI AM5728 Sitara Processor
Processor Memory   2 GB
Operating System   Microsoft Windows CE
Oscilloscope Operating Software   Teledyne LeCroy MAUI™

[Martin72]

This refers to the description in the data sheet...

[Martin72]

Exactly this. 

[tautech]

Sorry, I must have some mental block here. You mean you don't want that processor and OS specifically, but you would like Siglent to specify in the datasheet which processor and OS they use?

Linux for all models.

[Martin72]

A question of understanding:
According to the data sheet of the 3000X HD, the bandwidth of the 3104X HD is 1Ghz in interleaving mode and is reduced to 800Mhz in non-interleaving mode.
Why ?
At first I thought this was clear because of the reduced sample rate from 4 to 2GSa/s, but with the Wavesurfer WS3000Z/Siglent SDS3000X the bandwidth remains the same, despite the reduced sample rate.

[switchabl]

Presumably they decided to do it right this time and design in proper anti-alias filtering? The question you should ask is why didn't the SDS3000X have this. Even 800 MHz is cutting it pretty close, especially at 12 bit.