Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD

[skander36]

For sure I need to take leassons about communication as nobody understand what I am triying to show ... 
Nevermind ...

[Veteran68]

I see where skander36 is coming from. It's not just about the UI design and which is "better" (entirely subjective). It's about the available pixels you have to work with, and arguably the most important aspect of any scope is the waveform display. It's what you're ultimately using a scope to get. Higher resolution and pixel density means sharper and more accurate waveform display, not to mention the improved UX from having more flexibility with menus and other features shown alongside the waveform. In this age of HD scopes, why saddle one with a non-HD display that's going to suppress the finer details of a waveform?

I've long been a Siglent fan and have a lot of Siglent gear. I really want the SDS1000X HD (not so much the SDS800X, since I have the DHO1074->DHO1204). Had the SDS1000X HD been released I'd have never succumbed to BF pressure to buy the DHO. However I have to say that Siglent could have done better than a 1024x600 resolution on a 10.1" screen. The Rigol DHO1000 series in the same size screen has 1280x800 resolution. That's 67% more pixels in the same space. 1024x600 is perhaps forgivable in a 7" screen, but not in a 10". Even cheap 10" $50 Chinese Android tablets are coming with 1280x800 screens -- that's about the *minimum* resolution for that size of screen IMO. So it's not like the old days where an HD screen would cost as much as the rest of the scope. My point is, screens are cheap these days and I'm disappointed Siglent chose the lower resolution route here. It's the only thing in my eyes (no pun intended) where Siglent has dropped the ball.

I've spent my entire career working in front of computer displays, and a good part of that career creating software user interfaces. I have always favored high resolution and high pixel density -- it's just the way I'm wired or conditioned. I run 4K monitors with no scaling because of the density of information it brings. Even as I get older and my vision wanes, I prefer smaller fonts with more information on screen. I prefer AA fonts, but I'm less concerned with that. Using 1024x600 on a 10.1" screen just hurts my heart, even though I'd expect the Siglent to be the better overall scope in terms of functionality and performance.

I still imagine I'll trade in the DHO1000 for the SDS1000X HD if the price is favorable, just because it's shaping up to be better in almost every way, but I'll definitely miss the beautiful display of the DHO. Had I never seen the DHO1000's screen, it wouldn't hurt as bad.

[skander36]

I see where skander36 is coming from. It's not just about the UI design and which is "better" (entirely subjective). It's about the available pixels you have to work with, and arguably the most important aspect of any scope is the waveform display. It's what you're ultimately using a scope to get. Higher resolution and pixel density means sharper and more accurate waveform display, not to mention the improved UX from having more flexibility with menus and other features shown alongside the waveform. In this age of HD scopes, why saddle one with a non-HD display that's going to suppress the finer details of a waveform?

I've long been a Siglent fan and have a lot of Siglent gear. I really want the SDS1000X HD (not so much the SDS800X, since I have the DHO1074->DHO1204). Had the SDS1000X HD been released I'd have never succumbed to BF pressure to buy the DHO. However I have to say that Siglent could have done better than a 1024x600 resolution on a 10.1" screen. The Rigol DHO1000 series in the same size screen has 1280x800 resolution. That's 67% more pixels in the same space. 1024x600 is perhaps forgivable in a 7" screen, but not in a 10". Even cheap 10" $50 Chinese Android tablets are coming with 1280x800 screens -- that's about the *minimum* resolution for that size of screen IMO. So it's not like the old days where an HD screen would cost as much as the rest of the scope. My point is, screens are cheap these days and I'm disappointed Siglent chose the lower resolution route here. It's the only thing in my eyes (no pun intended) where Siglent has dropped the ball.

I've spent my entire career working in front of computer displays, and a good part of that career creating software user interfaces. I have always favored high resolution and high pixel density -- it's just the way I'm wired or conditioned. I run 4K monitors with no scaling because of the density of information it brings. Even as I get older and my vision wanes, I prefer smaller fonts with more information on screen. I prefer AA fonts, but I'm less concerned with that. Using 1024x600 on a 10.1" screen just hurts my heart, even though I'd expect the Siglent to be the better overall scope in terms of functionality and performance.

I still imagine I'll trade in the DHO1000 for the SDS1000X HD if the price is favorable, just because it's shaping up to be better in almost every way, but I'll definitely miss the beautiful display of the DHO. Had I never seen the DHO1000's screen, it wouldn't hurt as bad.

This is exactly what I wish to show.
SDS1000x-HD will be near the DHO1000 price, so if you can pass over those con points trading DHO for SDS will worth. Applications are very well designed with may usefull options , and Bode plot, FFT, Power Analisys, Math, are well beyond of his class.

[skander36]

Is this really what it looks like on the screen, or are there scaling artefacts or such from the web interface?

Yes is exactly as the screen, no artefacts. SDS make a slightly clear screenshots as DHO.
I put a 400kpts screnshot from SDS at 400 kpts along with the same waveform from DHO at 10 kpts.
Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.

[2N3055]

Is this really what it looks like on the screen, or are there scaling artefacts or such from the web interface?

Yes is exactly as the screen, no artefacts. SDS make a slightly clear screenshots as DHO.
I put a 400kpts screnshot from SDS at 400 kpts along with the same waveform from DHO at 10 kpts.
Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.

Interesting. What SDS1000XHD is that? Is that new black one or old beige one from China?

I don't have SDS1000XHD, and as far as I know you still cannot buy one here in EU.

But I have 2000XHD and waveform rendering does not look like that.
Nor it does on 3000XHD.

As I said, I don't like if scope anti-alias waveform. In normal work, you get temporal dithering that serves as that, while showing only real data.  Anti-aliasing  might look cool to some, but is not "better"...

I personally have problems with anti-aliasing because it makes eyes harder to focus. Eyes keep hunting for focus, because it is basically always blurry, and ayes cannot find a point where it is sharp... I have myopia, which makes it harder...

To me, all screens are all anti-aliased in my "built in vision hardware" 

On Siglent you can also enable dot mode and remove potential reconstruction artefacts on repetitive signals...

[2N3055]

I was about to ask the same. What exact scope was that "SDS1000X HD" screenshot taken on? It looks wrong: The trace is always 2 pixels thick (in the vertical direction), and the vertical steps are always 2 pixels as well.

I have scrolled through various SDX...HD threads, but have not come across suitable screenshots in "stopped" mode for comparison. The traces in "triggered" mode certainly look much smoother and cleaner. Could an owner of the 2000X HD post screenshot of a signal with relatively low noise in "stopped" state?

[Veteran68]

SDS1000x-HD will be near the DHO1000 price, so if you can pass over those con points trading DHO for SDS will worth. Applications are very well designed with may usefull options , and Bode plot, FFT, Power Analisys, Math, are well beyond of his class.

I have no doubt that the SDS1000X HD will be worth its asking price, especially if it's priced in the same MSRP range as the DHO1000. However many of us picked up our DHO1000's as part of the very aggressive Black Friday sale. Combined with the EEVBlog Saelig discount, I paid about $560 US for a $1K MSRP scope, before upgrading it to a $1850 scope. I have no expectation that Siglent will discount the SDS1000XHD by anywhere near that much anytime soon. That said, I can probably get more for my DHO than I paid for it, which would serve to "discount" the SDS1000X even further.

[Martin72]

In the case of the 1000X HD series, you can expect a little surprise if you take the original prices of the Rigol DHO1104/1204 as a benchmark.

[skander36]

...
Interesting. What SDS1000XHD is that? Is that new black one or old beige one from China?
...

The black one.

[skander36]

Both, the fat traces and the ripple when zooming in, don't look right to me. As 2N3055 had shown above, the SDS2000X HD makes use of the full vertical resolution. Your screenshots show it cut in half, and I can't see any reason why that should be necessary on the 1000X HD.

Could you try a factory reset and repeat the test, maybe? The Siglent experts here might have further ideas?

The ripple is not a big problem(does not bother me) as I don't zoom often at this level. It appear when interpolation is in sync mode.
But the "8bit like" of the waveform can be a weak point when compared to Rigol DHO1k. If you are doubt of my scope I have attached a sceenshot from SDS1k user manual.

P.S. I have done factory reset few times due to a bug with Power Analisys- PSRR whick lock the function and can be removed only by a factory reset.

[Martin72]

P.S. I have done factory reset few times due to a bug with Power Analisys

Do I understand correctly that you have an SDS1000XHD?

[skander36]

P.S. I have done factory reset few times due to a bug with Power Analisys

Do I understand correctly that you have an SDS1000XHD?

No ... I have SDS1204X-HD 

[2N3055]

Both, the fat traces and the ripple when zooming in, don't look right to me. As 2N3055 had shown above, the SDS2000X HD makes use of the full vertical resolution. Your screenshots show it cut in half, and I can't see any reason why that should be necessary on the 1000X HD.

Could you try a factory reset and repeat the test, maybe? The Siglent experts here might have further ideas?

The ripple is not a big problem(does not bother me) as I don't zoom often at this level. It appear when interpolation is in sync mode.
But the "8bit like" of the waveform can be a weak point when compared to Rigol DHO1k. If you are doubt of my scope I have attached a sceenshot from SDS1k user manual.

P.S. I have done factory reset few times due to a bug with Power Analisys- PSRR whick lock the function and can be removed only by a factory reset.

Ripple should bother you. It shouldn't be there. It is not normal. So either you are doing something wrong, or something is wrong with the scope.

[skander36]

Ripple should bother you. It shouldn't be there. It is not normal. So either you are doing something wrong, or something is wrong with the scope.

Set your scope in sinc mode interpolation and test.

[2N3055]

Ripple should bother you. It shouldn't be there. It is not normal. So either you are doing something wrong, or something is wrong with the scope.

Set your scope in sinc mode interpolation and test.

It is in sync mode all the time.. For all the images provided..
Your scope is acting weird.

Run full factory default and security erase followed by self calibration .

If defect is still there, call vendor and start warranty repair process.

[baldurn]

I tried to replicate the zoom picture from Skander36 on my 2000X-HD and got this:



I don't have a Z1 channel. Is this a new software feature not available on 2000X-HD yet?

My traces do not appear to be double pixel width. But I still think they are a bit pixelated.

[rf-loop]

Ripple should bother you. It shouldn't be there. It is not normal. So either you are doing something wrong, or something is wrong with the scope.

Set your scope in sinc mode interpolation and test.

It is in sync mode all the time.. For all the images provided..
Your scope is acting weird.

Run full factory default and security erase followed by self calibration .

If defect is still there, call vendor and start warranty repair process.

Due to some reasons, and what I see images in Reply #187 (weird Sinc) I will ask@skander36: What is your SDS1204X-HD  FW version.

[tautech]

Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.

Just tested and mirrored with a prototype SDS1204X HD.
It's an interpolation error only visible under certain setup conditions.

Reported.
HQ has already produced a fix......same day !

[tautech]

Just tested and mirrored with a prototype SDS1204X HD.
It's an interpolation error.

Reported.

Could you also test for the blocky, 2-pixel-vertical-increment lines in stop mode please? In the screenshot you shared it looks like the vertical steps and line thickness are 2 pixels tall, but that could be seen more clearly in a "flatter" trace.

Not my screenshot.
Quote corrected.

[tautech]

Alright. Anyway, could you please try to also reproduce the screenshot which skander36 had attached to the post that started this part of the SDS1000X HD discussion? Thanks!

Also a 8bit - ish look of the waveform compared with Rigol DHO1K 12 bit. I'm very curious if SDS3000X-HD will be better in that point.

With a recently discovered interpolation issue I fail to see the need and the scope is already off.
Just checked other pen drives but nothing showing the vertical detail you seek.

Later Sunday evening here and tomorrow is another day...stay tuned.

[skander36]

Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.

Just tested and mirrored with a prototype SDS1204X HD.
It's an interpolation error only visible under certain setup conditions.

Reported.

Thank you! That's what I thought too.

[rf-loop]

Is this really what it looks like on the screen, or are there scaling artefacts or such from the web interface?

Yes is exactly as the screen, no artefacts. SDS make a slightly clear screenshots as DHO.
I put a 400kpts screnshot from SDS at 400 kpts along with the same waveform from DHO at 10 kpts.
Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.

You tell here that it is zoomed out but I can see it is zoomed in horizontally using a factor of 400.
Least in image where data length is 400kpts (afaik captured using 20us/div) and then you have stopped acquistion and then you have zoomed deep in (zoomed horizontally 20us/div to  50ns/div ).
Also there is vertically zoomed in but no where can see how much because you have not displayed original run time setup with some reason.

[rf-loop]

Yes, corrected also my previous  msg about very obvious vertical zoom in (many important data is missing in skander36 messages - why).
At least I, and many others, I believe,  don't have clairvoyant abilities.

Btw, it looks like interpolation bug. Not individual unit failure/problem.

ETA: Updade: This Sinc problem (bug) is regognized and solved by Siglent and fix included in later FW.

[skander36]

You tell here that it is zoomed out but I can see it is zoomed in horizontally using a factor of 400.
Least in image where data length is 400kpts (afaik captured using 20us/div) and then you have stopped acquistion and then you have zoomed deep in (zoomed horizontally 20us/div to  50ns/div ).
Also there is vertically zoomed in but no where can see how much because you have not displayed original run time setup with some reason.

What you are trying to say?
Yes it's zoomed out on both direction. It is what is seen when I do zoom to see details of a signal no matter what I do. I don't understand what you are triyng to say.
Software version is 1.1.0.2.

[rf-loop]

Also in math fuctions.
Note: These images are from SDS824X HD (small size version from 1000X HD)

This is captured and then horiz. zoomed in 20ns/div to 10ns/div.
There is Channel 1 normal trace and Channel 1 trace through math function (Ch1 + 0)

After capture, then in stop mode and after then bit zoom in horizontally and vertically.

Image with real sample dots only and then other image these with Sinc interpolation lines.



Sample dots and math dots alone



Dots connected with Sinc interpolation.
(yes there is also some weird tiny detail...  but do not look it... but math trace thickness... )