Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.

[2N3055]

How long did it take to complete those 8192 averages? I found most scopes do averaging slow or with unreliable rate.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/scope-with-fast-waveform-averaging/

I'll be able to provide exact numbers when the next beta FW is available, because then we can time it precisely. I don't feel that it takes several minutes, but we'll see.

In the thread that you've linked there are already the results for 1024 averaging (a couple of % amplitude drop). For 50% amplitude drop we can have about 4000 averages.

Mine was a bit slower because of FFT...
Averaging alone pretty much works with no overhead otherwise.. Refresh rate / number of averages..
On faster timebases it settles in seconds..

[kladit]

Same procedure at 10MHz.
The SDS2954X HD is a very capable and well-thought-out instrument.

[Martin72]

Hi,

By chance I came across an "offset phenomenon" earlier, which worries me a little...
Channel shows a small but permanent offset through all vertical steps from 10mV/div.
Channel 3 also shows a small but permanent offset through all steps, also from 10mV.
Below 10mV the offset is normal, like channel 2 and 4...
I'm just warming up the scope for self-calibration.
But the last one was not long ago...

[tautech]

Quick Cal engaged ?

[Martin72]

oops, I didn't know that yet...
No, quick cal is "off".

[tautech]

oops, I didn't know that yet...
No, quick cal is "off".

It can be useful in that warm up period. 

[Martin72]

I'm running the normal self-calibration right now.
But somehow I find it strange why an offset appears from 10mV/div but not below.
Should the self-calibration be equally successful, that somehow does not reassure me.

[Martin72]

Phenomen is gone..
But as I said, the last calibration was not long ago, after the firmware upgrade.
Quick cal....should I enable it....the manual says it interrupts the acquisition at that moment - but it also says this procedure is executed whenever the vertical scale is changed or interleave changes, whether the function is on or off.
And nothing else I had done earlier, when I had switched from 1mV/div to 1V/div.
So it had no effect.

[Ulrich.G]

I'll be able to provide exact numbers when the next beta FW is available, because then we can time it precisely. I don't feel that it takes several minutes, but we'll see.

Hi,

is this beta testing program only for official dealers, or is it possible for "normal" users to participate?

[2N3055]

Phenomen is gone..
But as I said, the last calibration was not long ago, after the firmware upgrade.
Quick cal....should I enable it....the manual says it interrupts the acquisition at that moment - but it also says this procedure is executed whenever the vertical scale is changed or interleave changes, whether the function is on or off.
And nothing else I had done earlier, when I had switched from 1mV/div to 1V/div.
So it had no effect.

On SDS6000 I have quick call enabled.. It will periodically stop for few seconds and recall.
Depending on what are you doing it can be annoying or not at all..

[JebCrag]

Relocated my 1054Z for the new scope, somehow the Feng Shui is thrown all off - didn't realize quite how much larger this would seem...

[tszaboo]

OK, I've been reading this thread for a while. The scope looks great, but I really don't understand the market placement of it.
The SDS 2104 Plus is 1450 EUR where I live, the smallest SDS 2104 HD is 3200 EUR. The package and screen looks better, but for all intends and purposes, it looks like the same scope with 12 bit instead of 8. For sure, that extra 4 bit, some of it is noise, is not going to be worth twice the price. Or let's go the other way, the SDS 5000 is practically the same price, that goes to a GHz. What am I missing?  Especially, since I have to assume, using their own ASIC must be cheaper than an IC from someone else. So why isn't the 12 bit resolution a license option?

[Martin72]

Yes, at first glance you could come to this conclusion - I thought so too.
But let's start with the outward appearance.
The workmanship is even more solid, the incremental encoders have been significantly improved and the internal shielding and construction is more elaborate.
Then we go one level deeper, the board.
The 12-bit converters are not exactly the cheapest, one for each of two channels.
Then the fan is PWM-controlled, the memory remains at 200/100Mpts (2/4ch), while with the SDS2k+ the memory is halved when the 10bit mode is used.
In addition to the 12bit native resolution, there are +3bit Eres, by the way, the hardware itself is more performant, Eres and Averaging are no longer math functions.
More trigger functions (delay, nth-edge, qualified), four mathchannels, four memorychannels, digital filters, memory management, etc, etc...
It's simply a higher class and that's why it costs a bit more.
That doesn't make the SDS2000+plus any worse, I still think it's one of the best affordable scopes, but for the higher price of the HD you get more and that's the point.
When I switched from the SDS2k+ to the HD, I was initially only fascinated by the 12 bit, the rest seemed the same to me.
But little by little I discovered the advantages that are there, which is no wonder, they both have the same UI, so you don't quickly realize that they are different.

[tautech]

OK, I've been reading this thread for a while. The scope looks great, but I really don't understand the market placement of it.
The SDS 2104 Plus is 1450 EUR where I live, the smallest SDS 2104 HD is 3200 EUR. The package and screen looks better, but for all intends and purposes, it looks like the same scope with 12 bit instead of 8. For sure, that extra 4 bit, some of it is noise, is not going to be worth twice the price. Or let's go the other way, the SDS 5000 is practically the same price, that goes to a GHz. What am I missing?  Especially, since I have to assume, using their own ASIC must be cheaper than an IC from someone else. So why isn't the 12 bit resolution a license option?

SDS2104X Plus development led the HD by quite a margin and HD offers better memory management features and a redesigned and more compact form factor.
All HD models have had a recent price reduction and also offer an attractive option bundle with a new scope purchase.
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/

[2N3055]

OK, I've been reading this thread for a while. The scope looks great, but I really don't understand the market placement of it.
The SDS 2104 Plus is 1450 EUR where I live, the smallest SDS 2104 HD is 3200 EUR. The package and screen looks better, but for all intends and purposes, it looks like the same scope with 12 bit instead of 8. For sure, that extra 4 bit, some of it is noise, is not going to be worth twice the price. Or let's go the other way, the SDS 5000 is practically the same price, that goes to a GHz. What am I missing?  Especially, since I have to assume, using their own ASIC must be cheaper than an IC from someone else. So why isn't the 12 bit resolution a license option?

SDS 2000X HD is never architectural generation.  It has quite a few more features than 2000 X+. Also it is made with much higher quality materials and it shows.
Compare datasheets to see very large voltage offset range (largest in class), very tight DC accuracy specifications.. Hardware ERES and Math ERES....etc etc.
It is also very, very quiet if that means something..

It is more like a smaller 500MHz 12bit SDS6000A than SDS2000X+ with 12bit.

[tszaboo]

Yes, at first glance you could come to this conclusion - I thought so too.
But let's start with the outward appearance.
The workmanship is even more solid, the incremental encoders have been significantly improved and the internal shielding and construction is more elaborate.
Then we go one level deeper, the board.
The 12-bit converters are not exactly the cheapest, one for each of two channels.
Then the fan is PWM-controlled, the memory remains at 200/100Mpts (2/4ch), while with the SDS2k+ the memory is halved when the 10bit mode is used.
In addition to the 12bit native resolution, there are +3bit Eres, by the way, the hardware itself is more performant, Eres and Averaging are no longer math functions.
More trigger functions (delay, nth-edge, qualified), four mathchannels, four memorychannels, digital filters, memory management, etc, etc...
It's simply a higher class and that's why it costs a bit more.
That doesn't make the SDS2000+plus any worse, I still think it's one of the best affordable scopes, but for the higher price of the HD you get more and that's the point.
When I switched from the SDS2k+ to the HD, I was initially only fascinated by the 12 bit, the rest seemed the same to me.
But little by little I discovered the advantages that are there, which is no wonder, they both have the same UI, so you don't quickly realize that they are different.

I don't know. My daily driver at work is a MSOX3104, I use the math on that (excluding the FFT) maybe once a year. I've been looking for a scope at home in the 1-2KEUR range. What's even the ERES, is it like the high res mode? The way I understand it the MSOX does "everything" in hardware, and I have to think about the limitations that I don't even realize that would come up.

SDS2104X Plus development led the HD by quite a margin and HD offers better memory management features and a redesigned and more compact form factor.
All HD models have had a recent price reduction and also offer an attractive option bundle with a new scope purchase.
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/

Oh yes, that. I keep forgetting the logic probe is an expensive option that places the scope even more outside my budget. Keep in mind in EU the taxes are 20% or more, so those numbers look good, but we write bigger numbers for a reason.

[temperance]

Posting here is only allowed for member of the 12 bit club or people seriously considering becoming a member.

I bought one of those because of the very large voltage offset range and the excellent overdrive recovery which is pretty bad on more expensive Tektronix, R&S RTM RTB and Keysight scopes.

The extra bits and access to the 12 bit club came as a bonus. One must not forget the excellent aluminum handle which some have found the most important aspect of this machine. The handle can also be used to upgrade your refrigerator if it didn't came with a descent door handle. It's that descent and comparable or better to 365 material from the blue and yellow shops.

[Martin72]

Yepp,
I only bought it because of the nice handle, it´s the same handle the lecroy HOD6000A have, wonderful, makes me feel like I´m having a HDO too...

What's even the ERES, is it like the high res mode?

https://www.teledynelecroy.com/doc/differences-between-eres-and-hires

[2N3055]

Posting here is only allowed for member of the 12 bit club or people seriously considering becoming a member.

I bought one of those because of the very large voltage offset range and the excellent overdrive recovery which is pretty bad on more expensive Tektronix, R&S RTM RTB and Keysight scopes.

The extra bits and access to the 12 bit club came as a bonus. One must not forget the excellent aluminum handle which some have found the most important aspect of this machine. The handle can also be used to upgrade your refrigerator if it didn't came with a descent door handle. It's that descent and comparable or better to 365 material from the blue and yellow shops.

[damien22]

Would someone care to share how to hack and unlock this wonderful piece of equipment?

[Martin72]

I don't think anyone will do that, otherwise it would have happened long ago.
And I think that's a good thing, the "danger" is always there in the background, that the manufacturers will at some point make sure that nobody can hack anything.

[damien22]

If manufacturers wanted to make scopes unhackable, they could, or at least they could make it way, way harder. Hackable is great for the hobby community which is a big (socials) drive, and still make the dough from corporations which wouldn't get into the trouble of hacking a scope.... marketing strategy.

[Antonio90]

Yes, but this one is not really hobbyist price range. It's more like the price of a full hobby lab.

I don't think Siglent wants it to be easily upgradeable without paying for licenses. If the procedure is not public, it's because it certainly isn't easy, which is a good indicator about what the manufacturer wants.

[kripton2035]

it could also be because if public siglent could correct the licence scheme and make it more difficult to hack.

[axantas]

Looking at the specs and price of a 2000X HD we are somewhere in the range of a "down labeled" Lecroy, crossing the hobbyist range towards professional use. It somehow makes sense, to prevent hacking with a "V2 licensing". With the actually available bundles for all the options, Siglent goes into the right direction. If you hobbyist want it (pointing at me too...) get that bundle of options, which is actually available and stick with the bandwidth, you initially chose.

I would not refuse a way to hack the rest, but I am satisfied with the options I actually can buy.