Analog Discovery 3 or budget bench setup

[Antonio90]

DHO800 or SDS800X HD are actually off-topic in this thread.
The OP is talking about $250 for Scope with AWG + power supply OR AD3.
The devices mentioned cost double or triple that.

As I mentioned above, it's really about the question:
Benchtop scope with AWG + power supply OR AD3.

It is true that only the Hantek fits into this budget, but it is not really primarily about the manufacturer.

You may want something "better" than the Hantek at some point, but you may want a benchtop scope and a "real" power supply relatively soon after buying an AD3.
Nothing wrong with the AD3, that's just a guess on my part. 

I have a rigol 1104z and an AD2. I'm still a student, but i do freelance repair and electronics design on the side. In my case, unless what i'm working on involves very low amplitude or frequencies above  20MHz, I use my AD2 most of the time, so even having a bench scope at hand, the AD2 sees more use in my bench. Of couse, everyone has different preferences when it comes to user interface or just the feel of turning the knobs/pushing the buttons in a standalone instrument, but when it comes to the capabilities of the instrument, the scope in particular, other than for those things i mentioned before (low amplitude, high frequency) what are really the downsides of the AD2? the only thing i can think of is the low waveform update rate, but even some instruments in the 2k$+ price range (tek series 2) exist with slow waveform update rate.

---End response to Aldo22

There's a lot of professional work that can be done within the bandwidth and vertical sensitivity of the AD3, and this is just about the scope "part" of the instrument. The add-on boards expand its functionality significantly, and you don't really need them, you can make your own impedance analyzer board, curve tracer board, and even your own specific purpose boards according t your needs.

You can also do Bode plots, and the differential inputs of the scope come in handy in all sorts of situations. for example, a while ago i took part in a contest by element14 about flyback transformers, and the AD2 made measuring the transformers very easy, and the differential inputs allowed me to measure both input and output current of the flyback converter, with the same instrument, which allowed me to show them time correlated which helped me better demonstrate the working principle than i would have been able to with ground-referenced single ended channels in a standalone 2 channel scope.

I think another significant thing to consider (if you care about stuff like this) is the user experience. If the options are an AD3 or a low cost scope, unless you have a strong preference for physical knobs and buttons, the experience of using the AD3's software "waveforme" is likely to feel a lot better than using a sub 200$ scope as it is intuitively laid out, very responsive, and it also has that "professional" feel to it, which to be fair can be a subjective feel, but most people have described low cost standalone scopes as having a very rough or unpolished "feel" to them. I think this part is an important consideration as having tools that don't feel good to use might result in the person not using that tool unless they have to, which could turn a fun hobby like electronics into more of a chore, OP may not care at all about this, so there's that.

What i would do, having that money right now, and needing/wanting a home lab right now, is try to get a used AD2 instead of the AD3, a bench power supply(actually, i would build my own power supply. I did that as a project for a class years ago, and used that DIY supply for years until i got a "real" bench power supply) and a multimeter, then use that setup, and while that setup is being put to use, also start saving for a nice 4 channel standalone bench oscilloscope in the 400$ range like the siglent or rigol 12 bit offerings

I agree, mostly. I would be wary of buying an used Analog Discovery 2 unless heavily discounted, as you don't know how the main connector and micro-USB were taken care of. The USB connector is filmsy, and the breakout boards can put a lot of stress on the connector if used carelessly.
I say this having bought my AD2 used, but the prices I'm seeing right now on used ones are discounts mostly WRT the regular price, not the academic one. Between a $200-220 used AD2 and a $250 new AD3, I know I would buy the latter.
In any case, you'll need to add $40-$50 for the BNC breakout board, a couple cheap probes, and some kind of BNC to alligator clips or similar to use the AWG

[egonotto]

Hello,

I find working with a breadboard very useful, so BNC connections are more cumbersome.

Best regards
egonotto

[Aldo22]

Strongly disagree.
SDS802X HD is $ 339 and topic includes the words: or budget bench setup

The OP's original proposal included the power supply and the AWG.

The OP says:

I would like to start small first with a budget of $250.

So for me, $339 + cost of power supply + cost of AWG is clearly off-topic and also not suitable for comparison with the AD3.

Sure, hobble the OP with equipment that will only ever get him so far.......

It's just not the answer to the OP's question.
If the OP wanted to spend $400, he could buy an AD3 AND a Hantek. So the whole thread would be moot. 

[Anthocyanina]

I agree, mostly. I would be wary of buying an used Analog Discovery 2 unless heavily discounted, as you don't know how the main connector and micro-USB were taken care of. The USB connector is filmsy, and the breakout boards can put a lot of stress on the connector if used carelessly.
I say this having bought my AD2 used, but the prices I'm seeing right now on used ones are discounts mostly WRT the regular price, not the academic one. Between a $200-220 used AD2 and a $250 new AD3, I know I would buy the latter.
In any case, you'll need to add $40-$50 for the BNC breakout board, a couple cheap probes, and some kind of BNC to alligator clips or similar to use the AWG

oooh, wow, yes, they are pretty expensive used on ebay right now. Yeah, i would get it used if it was for 150$ and yes, if the seller could prove the connectors are in good shape, I didn't think of that when recommending used, good point!

[Smokey]

Your bench gear is an investment in tools of your trade.  Any old timer will be able to tell you that being able to afford a solid bench worth of full featured equipment for around $800 is a damn miracle compared to what it used to cost to put that together before the Rigols and Siglents came along.

And don't get Hantek stuff.  At least not for the scope.  Every time I've touched something of that grade it just feels cheap and buggy.  If you cheap out that much it will end up in the drawer next to the Analog Discovery way faster than you would want.

[Aldo22]

And don't get Hantek stuff.  At least not for the scope.  Every time I've touched something of that grade it just feels cheap and buggy.  If you cheap out that much it will end up in the drawer next to the Analog Discovery way faster than you would want.

It IS cheap! And it's good for the price. Just don't pay too much for it!

I paid CHF 125.- shipped for my DSO2C10 (about $130.- at the time)
The price is ridiculous.  Even if you're not happy with it, it's not worth getting upset about it. You didn't lose much money.
Maybe the AWG alone is worth the price.
It's a usable first scope and of course you'll eventually buy a "better" one once you know your needs.

In any case, mine is not in the drawer yet. 

A product just has to be worth its price.
If it was at the level of Siglent or Rigol for that price, Siglent and Rigol would have gone bankrupt. 

A Siglent/Rigol is perhaps 10 times better than a DSO2000, but a DSO2000 is 1000 times better than no scope at all. 

[Antonio90]

I wouldn't fret too much about these ending up in a drawer.

The Siglent is a great option for $400, and probably the better choice right now for a low cost but fully featured oscilloscope. If you had a $600 budget, I would probably buy that scope and a cheap/used PSU, DMM and soldering iron. Then save for a cheap Feeltech or Uni-T AWG.

With your budget, I'd say the Analog Discovery is the least likely to end up in a drawer when (if) you upgrade your lab. Don't be too impatient, you'll get there, and components, prototyping boards, consumables, and cabling really do add up.

As for the HANTEK, it's actually more capable generally speaking than an old CRO, and you can get it often cheaper than a working analog 'scope. I don't have it, so cannot recommend it, but I doubt is as bad as people paint it.

An analog oscilloscope might be a good option if you'd like the puzzle of a repair and find one for peanuts. I was defeated by a tek 466 with HV problems, and a more modern Hameg, and then too budget-strained by a Tek 2465 which I troubleshot correctly. Take that for what you will, but $100 on an old boat anchor might very well leave you without oscilloscope and $100 poorer.

In any case, the AD3 is a real tool, actually useful, and will remain as such within it's bandwidth and input limitations. It's not a direct competitor to the newer Rigol and Siglent lineups.

The third option presented by some other users is also valid: save for standalone, fully featured bench tools from recognized brands. It's your choice at the end of the day, but I would personally get the Analog Discovery unless you can gather $800 in a reasonably short term to get a basic bench.

[hfleming]

Let us see… as a starter, the AD2/3 gives you the following instruments :
1) Oscilloscope
2) AGW
3) Spectrum Analyzer
4) Network Analyzer
5) Impedance Analyzer
6) Logic Analyzer
7) Pattern Generator

Of course, it is limited, but more than adequate for learning electronics. Thereafter you can start by adding the basics, like a decent multimeter and PSU. After you decide in which field you want to go in, more epecialized equipment applicable to that field. Even though I have a lot of test-equipment, my AD2 is still connected to my development PC and find it useful for all sorts of things when my main equipment is occupied.

[Aldo22]

As for the HANTEK, it's actually more capable generally speaking than an old CRO, and you can get it often cheaper than a working analog 'scope. I don't have it, so cannot recommend it, but I doubt is as bad as people paint it.

I think I can explain the bad reputation.

1. Hantek does not have the dealer prices under control.
A product that's an amazing deal for $150 can be pretty garbage if you pay $450 for it because there is simply much better for that money.
That's exactly what happens here. For example here they want €468 (VAT incl.)
That's ridiculous, of course.
If you buy at the wrong price, you will be disappointed.


2. As a "beginner's scope", it might be the first DSO someone buys.
A lot of things are puzzling at first and you draw the wrong conclusions: "I wish I'd bought a better one."
But the "problem" is perhaps quite normal. Maybe it's the cable, the termination, the probes...
We remember: "Why Digital Oscilloscopes Appear Noisy" for example.


3. Of course it's cheap and has a bunch of bugs, it also has a bunch of features. But the basic things do work and "better" brands are not always perfect either, afaik.
At least there are still firmware updates, the last one on 2024-05-07.
So there is always hope! 

[jasonRF]

Before purchasing anything, I would check into whether the school you are at allows you to go in and use the electronics labs on your own time.  When/where I studied EE we were not, but it is worth checking.  Assuming they don't...

Unless you need higher voltages or frequencies than it can handle, if you were my kid I would recommend the Analog Discovery.  There are a number of good reasons, most/all of which have been covered by others:

It is small so can easily be thrown in a bag and taken anywhere, and college students tend to live in tight quarters and move a couple of times a year.  For me this would be a big deal. 

It also includes Bode plots and other capabilities that would likely take a fair amount of work to implement with most stand-alone equipment that you could afford right now. 

If you eventually do buy a bench setup the AD3 could still be useful. 

If you ever find that you no longer use it then you can sell it; they hold their value quite well.


The first handful of years I was doing hobby electronics (which I started many years after finishing school) I only had a Picoscope 2204a which is inferior to an AD.  With an EE background I had the knowledge to make good use of the limited capabilities and it was perfectly fine. 

jason

[Overspeed]

Hello

PSU is not really a problem a flea market old PC PSU and a 5 $ banana PCB from AliExpress supply 5 and 12V

generate 3.3 or other voltage can be done with cheap LDO

Entry level Owon , Hantek and other chinese oscilloscope can be located under 200 $

Regards
OS

[Fungus]

Strongly disagree.
SDS802X HD is $ 339 and topic includes the words: or budget bench setup

Sure, hobble the OP with equipment that will only ever get him so far.......

You mean like owning a 2-channel SDS802X?

[Overspeed]

Before purchasing anything, I would check into whether the school you are at allows you to go in and use the electronics labs on your own time.  When/where I studied EE we were not, but it is worth checking.  Assuming they don't...

Unless you need higher voltages or frequencies than it can handle, if you were my kid I would recommend the Analog Discovery.  There are a number of good reasons, most/all of which have been covered by others:

It is small so can easily be thrown in a bag and taken anywhere, and college students tend to live in tight quarters and move a couple of times a year.  For me this would be a big deal. 

It also includes Bode plots and other capabilities that would likely take a fair amount of work to implement with most stand-alone equipment that you could afford right now. 

If you eventually do buy a bench setup the AD3 could still be useful. 

If you ever find that you no longer use it then you can sell it; they hold their value quite well.


The first handful of years I was doing hobby electronics (which I started many years after finishing school) I only had a Picoscope 2204a which is inferior to an AD.  With an EE background I had the knowledge to make good use of the limited capabilities and it was perfectly fine. 

jason

Hello

Small is not really a advantage for an oscilloscope as the size / quality of the display is also an important parameter , better to see something on the screen .
Small do not include the probes and accessories ( banana to BNC , PSU ... )
Small don t mean STRONG so you need carry case

another important parameter is the robustness of the BNC connector as cheap entry level oscilloscope have problem of connectors / pcb stiffness

Regards
OS

[Fungus]

PSU is not really a problem a flea market old PC PSU and a 5 $ banana PCB from AliExpress supply 5 and 12V

I hadn't seen those banana PCBs before, they're cool and they even have fuses!

example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004967107585.html

There's lots of variants, too, eg.: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006215767600.html

Old ATX power supplies are easy to get hold of.

generate 3.3 or other voltage can be done with cheap LDO

ATX PSUs have 3.3V and -12V rails (actually brought out on that adapter).

There's plenty of cheap adjustable boost/buck converters for other voltages.


Edit:
This one has a built in adjustable buck converter, USB connectors and supports quick charging for phones...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006000769093.html

I'm tempted by that one.

[Antonio90]

Hello

Small is not really a advantage for an oscilloscope as the size / quality of the display is also an important parameter , better to see something on the screen .
Small do not include the probes and accessories ( banana to BNC , PSU ... )
Small don t mean STRONG so you need carry case

another important parameter is the robustness of the BNC connector as cheap entry level oscilloscope have problem of connectors / pcb stiffness

Regards
OS

Hello, It is an advantage in terms of portability, which might or might not be relevant.
For a bench scope, the sweet spot is certainly larger than entry-level devices, but WRT to PC oscilloscopes smaller is better (assuming enough structural integrity), as most of the processing grunt and screen size depend on the computer.

As per ATX supplies, I'm not quite sure. If you can design overcurrent protection properly, maybe, but  30-50 amps in the event of a short are a fire hazard at worst, and will certainly burn your breadboards and components.

[Fungus]

As per ATX supplies, I'm not quite sure. If you can design overcurrent protection properly, maybe, but  30-50 amps in the event of a short are a fire hazard at worst, and will certainly burn your breadboards and components.

[tggzzz]

As per ATX supplies, I'm not quite sure. If you can design overcurrent protection properly, maybe, but  30-50 amps in the event of a short are a fire hazard at worst, and will certainly burn your breadboards and components.

And after all these wonderful hacks have been added together, it will be found that it would have been easier/cheaper/better to have just bought something quarter-way decent in the first place.

[Fungus]

And after all these wonderful hacks have been added together, it will be found that it would have been easier/cheaper/better to have just bought something quarter-way decent in the first place.

You can get something better for $3 plus a salvaged ATX power supply? (with four different outputs)

[Antonio90]

As per ATX supplies, I'm not quite sure. If you can design overcurrent protection properly, maybe, but  30-50 amps in the event of a short are a fire hazard at worst, and will certainly burn your breadboards and components.

Well, didn't see the fuses. I guess they take care of the fire hazard.

[Messtechniker]

Don't forget that minimum load requirements
must be met for those ATX power supplies.