Rigol DHO804 Test and Compare Thread

[nctnico]

That is not the point. The moveable/sizeable windows allow the user to make the most of what already is a tiny screen. Bonus points if you have the money to buy a scope with a bigger screen where moveable/sizeable windows are even better. On the RTM3004 I use the sizeable windows to allow me to keep an eye on the signal in a small window and have the FFT display at almost the full visible area of the screen. Cramming everything into the same viewport doesn't help in some cases.

[TurboTom]

...
Its a bargain for the price, does the display have any off-center axis to conclude if its TFT or IPS LCD?
not that is meens much, as a good TFT is prefered over a bad IPS and vice versa but the TFT could be a problem from certain angles if people got it up on a VESA mount/arm

The display is fairly well readable when tilted up to approx. 45° in any direction without any changes in hue/colour. Yet, it seems that the backlight is quite directional and the display gets considerably darker the shallower the viewing angle gets. I'm not certain if it's IPS but IMO, except for the glare of the touch panel surface, the display is better than those on Rigol's legacy gear. Especially, there's no prefered viewing position (on-shelf / above the (seated) user vs. desktop positioning). Of course, things can always be improved... 

[2N3055]

You can move the windows..

Like this...
Vertical view is on this tiny screen not recommendable(my opinion)..

Martin,

I have a small ask?
Could you please check can you reposition/resize measurements window?

Thanks!

[Martin72]

To take it to the extreme, I activated all the math channels....
Rigol has learned, with the MSO5000 each math channel was the same from the color...
Remarkably, the scope does not go down on its knees with all the renderings.
(Note: I only play around with the scope after work, "real" measuring/testing will follow later)

Could you please check can you reposition/resize measurements window?

Do you mean the windows with the measured values ?

[2N3055]

That is not the point. The moveable/sizeable windows allow the user to make the most of what already is a tiny screen. Bonus points if you have the money to buy a scope with a bigger screen where moveable/sizeable windows are even better. On the RTM3004 I use the sizeable windows to allow me to keep an eye on the signal in a small window and have the FFT display at almost the full visible area of the screen. Cramming everything into the same viewport doesn't help in some cases.

I agree with you (and not the first time on this topic) but with a caveat. Screen has to be at least some minimum size otherwise, like Performa01 well said, borders and decorations use up most of the screen...

On 23" screen I absolutely use many resizable windows.. On my smartphone, I have split screen function.. Used it once to try it... Not usable...

[Martin72]

Martin,
I have a small ask?
Could you please check can you reposition/resize measurements window?

Thanks!

Now I get what you mean...
You can swap the windows left/right, upper/lower, "delete" them and/or add.
Thats all, you can´t define a size or drag it on the screen where you want and if you close a window, for example ch1 and leave the "measure" window on, measure is now fullscreened.
But to get ch1 displaying back, you must go in the windows menu and add this again, annoying..
Edit: Or close the "last" window.

[Fungus]

You have that function on many other scopes.

I've seen it on R&S, etc, but not on anything for $400 (or anywhere close).

Maybe you guys are surrounded by that stuff all day long and lost sight of what you're dealing with here.

[2N3055]

Martin,
I have a small ask?
Could you please check can you reposition/resize measurements window?

Thanks!

Now I get what you mean...
You can swap the windows left/right, upper/lower, "delete" them and/or add.
Thats all, you can´t define a size or drag it on the screen where you want and if you close a window, for example ch1 and leave the "measure" window on, measure is now fullscreened.
But to get ch1 displaying back, you must go in the windows menu and add this again, annoying..
Edit: Or close the "last" window.

Thank you Martin!
That is good news that you can detach it like that.. I don't like bad use of space though. How does it look when statistics is enabled ?

EDIT: I see that is ALL measurements.. How about that measurement window on the right , with stats too..

[Martin72]

I've seen it on R&S, etc, but not on anything for $400 (or anywhere close).

Maybe you guys are surrounded by that stuff all day long and lost sight of what you're dealing with here.

If you could freely move and zoom in/out the windows, this kind of display would be a very useful feature.
As it is, it is currently more of a gimmick.(Maybe it will be enhanced someday...)
I wouldn't want to have more than two windows open on the small screen.
However:
Yes, it's unique in the class and yes, you could connect a larger screen, no question.
And I also like, as with the DHO4000 before, the tabular display of the measured values, which is very easy on the eyes.
We don't always want to just complain.

[2N3055]

You have that function on many other scopes.

I've seen it on R&S, etc, but not on anything for $400 (or anywhere close).

Maybe you guys are surrounded by that stuff all day long and lost sight of what you're dealing with here.

On a screen this small it has limited use but yes they provided it.. I see that external screen would be pretty much necessary if you want to make it bussy.
If you have external screen already, of course. Buying a scope and touch screen might shift you towards just buying something with bigger screen....

[Martin72]

@2N3055:

Here an example when you want to have the measures in a window (they´re also on the right side of the screen, but hiding).

[2N3055]

@2N3055:

Here an example when you want to have the measures in a window (they´re also on the right side of the screen, but hiding).

I like the one on the bottom. That one is quite OK..

Thanks!

[tautech]

@2N3055:

Here an example when you want to have the measures in a window (they´re also on the right side of the screen, but hiding).

I like the one on the bottom. That one is quite OK..

Even though just 5 lines of statistics eat half of the display ? 

[Fungus]

I wouldn't want to have more than two windows open on the small screen.

But you would want to have two, right?

We don't always want to just complain.

I don't remember seeing positive things in these threads apart from size and cuteness. Everything else has been a mad rush to see who can find the most things to complain about.

[2N3055]

@2N3055:

Here an example when you want to have the measures in a window (they´re also on the right side of the screen, but hiding).

I like the one on the bottom. That one is quite OK..

Even though just 5 lines of statistics eat half of the display ? 

I'm not comparing with my scopes that have several display modes and many other details not present here.
I still prefer Siglent measurements that are much more powerful implementation (I refuse to buy any scope without histicons ever again).

It is not perfect.. For instance in this table there is no P-P stat..
But it is actually usable (compared to the vertical table on the right it is much better)..
It is better than DS1000Z that cost the same.

But that is graphical representation. My bigger concern is discussion from today with @TurboTom about how measurements are being calculated  and if they are on decimated data and how accurate they are...
That needs to be tested in depth.

[Martin72]

@Fungus:

I don't remember seeing positive things in these threads apart from size and cuteness

For me, that is rather not a positive thing.

Everything else has been a mad rush to see who can find the most things to complain about.

If everything was great, they would report on it accordingly.
You can be sure that I will do it.
Or you, you'll get yours soon and I'm looking forward to your tests.
Getting hold of a 12 bit scope for 475€ is very tempting for people who don't have or want to spend enough money, but even Rigol can't do magic plus their "specialty" is to unleash a rather immature software product on the clientele.
I have it only since yesterday and play around only sporadically, because no time for it - But I have already experienced two system crashes.
That doesn't exactly make for enthusiasm.

[2N3055]

I don't remember seeing positive things in these threads apart from size and cuteness. Everything else has been a mad rush to see who can find the most things to complain about.

People here don't need more Rigol marketing and hype. Leave that to Rigol salesmen.
People want to know does it work, how it works etc.

If there are bugs or deficiencies they need to be discovered, documented and Rigol needs to be pressured to fix them.
So those that want to buy scope to actually use it get scope that actually works.

I know of one person here that said they will return DHO900 because it is so full of bugs and problems that he has no patience for it and at this point does not consider it a finished product. And he has many Rigol products. He said that at this point if he had to do some work he would use DS1000Z. He said he might reconsider it in a year or so if they fix at least majority of problems....

That is your situation today.. Or shall we lie to people ?
No. I prefer constructive way where we unearth all the problems and force Rigol to fix them if they want to sell their stuff.
A win for my fellow prospective Rigol owners...

[ebastler]

I know of one person here that said they will return DHO900 because it is so full of bugs and problems that he has no patience for it and at this point does not consider it a finished product. And he has many Rigol products. He said that at this point if he had to do some work he would use DS1000Z. He said he might reconsider it in a year or so if they fix at least majority of problems....

That was TurboTom in post #25, right? While I found his observations most helpful, the only major criticism he had was that intensity grading looked very disappointing in the measurements he took. (While quite decent results were shown shortly after by Martin72.) So I found his conclusion "I'll probably return that scope" rather unexpected.

Otherwise, I fully agree with you. Let's put all the critical findings on the table and "encourage" Rigol to fix them -- which they should be able to do since all of them so far seem software-related.

This is not meant to be a "Rigol sales pitch" thread, after all. Although it would help if the Siglent salesman could tone it down too.

[Martin72]

This is not meant to be a "Rigol sales pitch" thread

This is not what I had in mind with this thread either....
Apropos, perhaps I should change the title / expand to the 900 model, even if I do not have it.

[TimFox]

Is there a contact at Rigol that reads unsolicited bug reports?
I sent an e-mail a few days ago, with no reply.

[TurboTom]

Most likely @2N3055 was referring to me. I've posted several findings in the "bugs" and "Bode Plot" threads that weigh in much heavier for me. Basically, the Bode Plot function isn't usable as-is and my take is that Rigol will still need a year to get it right if they prioritize it. I've got an audio project that I want to get done and I basically considered the DHO914S for its stand-alone Bode plot function which basically isn't there. So for that reason, I'll very likely return it -- not for its mediocre intensity grading. While I've got the scope here, I do all the tests that come to my mind and throw all sorts of signals at it and report my findings, my own errors, what's nice and also what's not so much...

And I hope others may find this information helpful for deciding if this scope may be worth getting.

For my own part, as I reported, most of my negative findings would be tolerable since I know I'm just evaluating an entry level scope -- except for the Bode plot failure, which is a show stopper for me. There are many nice and interesting details and features, and I made my own share of errors (suspecting the Scope's ADC for causing a spur in the signal while it was sampling clock feed-trough of the AWG along with a too long, improperly terminated BNC cable that basically caused the spur) that I also report -- somebody may learn from them.

Following all this information is somewhat troublesome since there are at least four threads that directly deal with findings on this new insturment. I guess this may have added its share to the confusion  .

[Martin72]

Hi Tim,

Maybe you can try this here:

info-europe@rigol.com

During the time I had the MSO5074, I was in contact with them almost every week and I was also almost always answered quite quickly.

[tautech]

@2N3055:

Here an example when you want to have the measures in a window (they´re also on the right side of the screen, but hiding).

I like the one on the bottom. That one is quite OK..

Even though just 5 lines of statistics eat half of the display ? 

I'm not comparing with my scopes that have several display modes and many other details not present here.
I still prefer Siglent measurements that are much more powerful implementation (I refuse to buy any scope without histicons ever again).

It is not perfect.. For instance in this table there is no P-P stat..
But it is actually usable (compared to the vertical table on the right it is much better)..

Lets say we wanted stats on just 1 measurement as we sometimes do.
Will half the display still be wasted ?

[rpro]

On my DHO804, using your parameters (20us/ timebase, 1.25GSa/s) the noise of the 1V/div stopped 50ohm capped signal I can measure (as std-deviation or AC-RMS) is 9.5mV at 20mv/div, 1.1mV at 2mV/div and 260uV at 500uV/div.

I understood from Dave's review video that the scope will not actually "zoom in" any further below 20 mV/div, although it claims to change the vertical scale. Are the 2mV and 500µV values really meaningful, or did I misunderstand?

Not meaningful and most probably wrong. The given numbers must be computed using some decimation scheme, as pointed out by @2N3055, but they do not seem to come from the screen data either. The shown waveform does change as expected from 50mV/div to 20mV/div, but then too little from 20mV/div to 10mV/div, and not any further with lower mV/div. The measurements, given by the scope, are as reported.

[UK]

During the time I had the MSO5074

Can you give us some of your personal pros/cons for comparison of MSO5000 and DHO800/900?
I'm also wondering why u decided to get this new DHO, because of the smaller size or fancy 12-bit resolution?