POLL: EEVlabs

[tautech]

A dream is just that until the stars align for it to happen therefore what's brought this dream to the front of the queue Dave ?
What are you to do for staff and this the big one, staff of sufficient caliber ie. qualifications and experience to have any chance of pulling this off ?
Don't overlook their capabilities or lack of could impact on your existing reputation unless you have a Shahriar up your sleeve to help pull this off.

As for some standardized tests  well in this day and age with the rapid changes in just the last 5 years by the time you've drafted them, they will already be obsolete.

I'm with Muttley based on that you've shared with us thus far.

[EEVblog]

It's an interesting idea, although I would think those who are the most interested in such test results would be in a position to get their mits on equipment to test for fit to the required purpose OR know someone who can help them reduce the choices to sufficient a degree that the differences left can be overcome (questions on this forum about what test equipment to get would in effect be in competition). As in the more expensive the kit (talking well North of 10k here) the more seriously someone would be in picking it. What you do might have some bearing on their decision-making, but not sure it would be critical I think, with that amount being spent it has to be directly justified. Plus the number of people doing this rapidly tails off...

It's actually opposite of what you think here.
Cheaper stuff are the items that people will trust a reviewer on. For expensive stuff (>$10k) typically you'd get a loaner unit from a local rep and test its suitability for your specific application.
Review on really expensive gear also get very few views because it's outside of most people's budgets, so they generally aren't going to spend the time looking at it all.

[tv84]

I think that, unfortunately, the idea is condemned from the start. Maybe one day... 

Some rumblings about my opinion:

Unless you hire some of the members here in the forum, continuosly, you will never get the definitive evaluations that you are hoping for (or at least me under the "EEVLab" flag). TE is a very small niche and one needs hyper special guys to comment freely on them (going overboard of TE is even worse as, one of these days, we'll be here discussing coffee machines and, at that moment, I'll know I've reached my stop).

Having such a supposedly "serious and methodic" evaluation might detract members from commenting: the beauty (and the bad) of the thing today on the forum is that, sometimes, you have people participating in a discussion that are orders of magnitude away in terms of knowledge But that doesn't detract them from commenting. (it's like talking about a football game, anyone is entitled to they opinion and reserves the right to express it). Without comments from members you'll loose the "community contibution" that you are expecting.

OTOH, a "EEVLabs testing/certification seal" might be destroyed in seconds if a forum guru finds an error or totally disagrees with what is being shown.

I agree with a "EEVLab" brand (seems kind of cool!), i think it may start to have some credibility BUT you have to go with the crowdsourcing way.

Things like Rudi's enormous work https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/functional-comparison-of-rs-rtb2000-siglent-sds2000x-and-keysight-dsox1000/ is something that you should encourage, help, guide and/or even reward with a "EEVLabs seal".

This could make some of the big gurus here do similar contributions in order to have something with the "EEVLabs seal" in their curriculum. There are many already spread all over the forum that are just not organized or filmed as a videoclip.

[J-R]

My suggestion would be to consider testing/reviewing more mainstream consumer products.  Feel free to also continue with the electronics gear, but if you really want to expand you will need to appeal to a wider audience.  I personally enjoy Project Farm's Youtube channel and have been very happy with my purchases made after considering his tests/reviews.  I've can't remember ever buying his top rated product, but the information he provides has helped me to pick what I needed/wanted.

Ultimately your content might be a mix of individual product reviews as they come out, along with the occasional "shootout" style where you pit maybe a dozen competing products against each other.  And don't be afraid to review something mundane like an extension cord, because a lot of people just want someone to show them a good product so they can buy it and move on.

[iMo]

Hopefully you have registered your new domain EEVlabs.com already - as the first step 

[J-R]

Hopefully you have registered your new domain EEVlabs.com already - as the first step 

Uh oh, it's available, quick Dave!!

[mikeselectricstuff]

I think solar/EV etc would be a better bet than test gear - I'm not sure the testgear market is big enough for this to be viable, and most people interested in it will often already have a lot of knowledge.
Something more consumer oriented gives the opportunity not only for equipment reviews but also general educational content.
As for sponsors, I think they'd need to be non-industry companies to avoid any impartialaity. 

[Domitronic]

I voted for "Sounds ok, I may or may not watch, depends" and i would like to explain why. My impression is that for test equipment you are biased, either conscious or unconscious. That is the reason why i would not pay for it. For example looking how your opinion about Tektronix changed over the years. For a long time there were almost no positive comments about Tek and since they sent you a series 2 test device it seems to have changed a bit. As everybody I'm also biased and have my personal preference of test equipment i use at work. Thats fine in general but a problem for a company dedicated to independent tests. Like confidence in test equipment brands there would also be confidence in test equipment reviewers. Even if the plan would be to have a fixed set of criteria to test. There is still a lot which is hard to put in numbers like usability.

I like your videos for entertainment and also to learn new things. For years i have seen most of your videos. But not for independent product reviews. Your strength is entertaining nerds and also some good educational videos in my opinion. Product reviews are also very fun to watch but more for the entertainment factor.

[nctnico]

What are you to do for staff and this the big one, staff of sufficient caliber ie. qualifications and experience to have any chance of pulling this off ?
Don't overlook their capabilities or lack of could impact on your existing reputation unless you have a Shahriar up your sleeve to help pull this off.

As for some standardized tests  well in this day and age with the rapid changes in just the last 5 years by the time you've drafted them, they will already be obsolete.

I disagree. You can standarise tests to a high degree and add / delete sections depending on functionality. Take my RTM3004 review for example: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rohde-schwarz-rtm3000-review/

These tests can be performed by any reasonably well instructed lab technician. The whole point of having a test plan is that almost anybody can execute the tests. And it doesn't take years to write. Sure, refinements can be made based on issues that aren't covered yet. Also, the blank parts in a test plan OR seemingly weird behaviour which the manufacturer can't or won't explain, can be areas where the audience can engage. It is prudent not to call something a bug until after giving the manufacturer a chance at least to explain what is going on according to them.

A bigger problem I see is that there are verious brands that keep changing their firmware (fixing bugs, creating new bugs, adding features) so any test result will be basically outdated when new firmware is released.

Maybe there is money to be made to have EEVlab do firmware testing for test equipment companies. Just like Munro takes cars apart so car manufacturers can learn what the competition is up to.

[madires]

Maybe it's a business opportunity. However, being a bit selfish here, I think it would occupy you so much that EEVblog would change and suffer. Also, there are already many 'product testers', anything from simply promoting products to trying to be unbiased and performing proper tests. In my experience, those tests can give you a just rough overview about what to expect from a product, but they are rarely able to tell you if a product is the right choice in your specific situation, especially when you have requirements which aren't checked. As a tester you can't test every feature and possible usage scenario because of money/time constraints. So you have to focus on some limited points which you think are important. The curse of testing.

PS. I don't watch Linus Tech Tips

[Psi]

It really just boils down to what sort of sponsorship money can be make from doing it vs costs incurred.

If it brings in the money then it brings in the money.

[EEVblog]

I voted for "Sounds ok, I may or may not watch, depends" and i would like to explain why. My impression is that for test equipment you are biased, either conscious or unconscious. That is the reason why i would not pay for it. For example looking how your opinion about Tektronix changed over the years. For a long time there were almost no positive comments about Tek and since they sent you a series 2 test device it seems to have changed a bit.

Err, nope. They sent me a 3000 series that is worth a lot more than the 2 series, and I absolutely hammered that product. So much so that they didn't talk to me for like 5 years or something.

[EEVblog]

Hopefully you have registered your new domain EEVlabs.com already - as the first step 

EEVlab.com is taken.

[Wim_L]

Edit: Take Joe Smith for example. I watch his videos because he does everything except test multimeters to see if they're bang on accurate. He rubs them with gasoline, zaps them with grill starters, twists the knob until it breaks, etc. It's fun to watch fancy $700 meters fail miserably where $50 meters survive.

My plan for a long time has been to have such testing facilities. Thermal/humidiuty test chambers, vibration tables, automated knob turners, ESD, mains brownout and spike testing etc.

EEVlab could be a torture test lab only perhaps?

Multimeters might be a particularly difficult case.

Not only do you have the normal destructive testing and CAT ratings (which means you can expect to not just test one meter, but destroy a series of them), but there's another issue: confidence in the result.

Will a multimeter give repeatable and correct results? And will it still do so after ten years? Yes, if you're a company that relies on accurate measurements, those meters will be sent to calibration labs at manufacturer-specified intervals, so in theory that shouldn't matter. In practice, a meter that stays within specifications after a decade by design, where the calibration consists of nothing more than a simple check to confirm it's still okay, is much nicer to deal with than one that drifts to the maximum allowed limits during each calibration interval. That's not something easily tested, that's confidence building up after many years.

[Bud]

This proposed name creates a confusion with existing EEVBlab.

[HighVoltage]

Hopefully you have registered your new domain EEVlabs.com already - as the first step 

EEVlab.com is taken.

EEVlabs.com is free !

It was also called the "HPlabs" and not "HPlab"

[joeqsmith]

https://www.consumerreports.org/

Ask yourself, could you give the 121GW a fair shakedown?   Watching your earlier videos of handheld meter, compared with the 121GW, I suspect it would be difficult.  As a seller you would need to resolve this conflict of interest. 

One advantage to my tests, there isn't a lot of room for bias.  While I often receive comments about bias, I tend to stick with the data.   The transient generators I designed/constructed put out the same waveforms regardless if there is a $700 Keysight meter attached or a free meter from Harbor Freight.   Products that do better are not because I wave my magic bias wand.   

You may want to consider following standards that are already in-place rather than coming up with your own.   You could then procure OTS equipment.  They could also be maintained by the supplier.   Coming up with your own standards and designing/maintaining the equipment to run them seems like a poor choice for a business.   

Again, I would be interested in seeing your business plan.  The costs to setup/maintain/operate such a lab alone would be very interesting. 

[armandine2]

If not you, who? - Jeff Bezos could afford it, and a few Joe Smiths might do it.

Good luck.

[andybrandi]

I think sponsorship degrades the idea. Nobody trusts that. If you want to be a Which? of test equipment you need to be rigorously independent.

I don't think a sponsorship from NordVPN, Squarespace, Skillshare or the like would hurt credibility in this case. 

Anyway, I like the idea and I'm curious to see how it is going to turn out. That said, joeqsmith made a good point that I'd like to reiterate:

Ask yourself, could you give the 121GW a fair shakedown?   Watching your earlier videos of handheld meter, compared with the 121GW, I suspect it would be difficult.  As a seller you would need to resolve this conflict of interest.

[ebastler]

Even when run under a separate brand, I am not sure EEVlabs would be compatible with the EEVblog "vibe" and with Dave's personal strengths and image. A "serious" test channel would require a more structured and disciplined approach, not only to the test procedures but also to the way the videos are presented.

"No script, no fear, all opinion" does not cut it for an EEVlabs channel. Sure, if you brand it separately and even have a different person be the lead presenter, you could take an entirely different approach. But then, would the new channel benefit from your personal popularity? The spontaneuous, informal, sometimes rambling style is what you are known for.

[manicdoc]

It's an interesting idea, although I would think those who are the most interested in such test results would be in a position to get their mits on equipment to test for fit to the required purpose OR know someone who can help them reduce the choices to sufficient a degree that the differences left can be overcome (questions on this forum about what test equipment to get would in effect be in competition). As in the more expensive the kit (talking well North of 10k here) the more seriously someone would be in picking it. What you do might have some bearing on their decision-making, but not sure it would be critical I think, with that amount being spent it has to be directly justified. Plus the number of people doing this rapidly tails off...

It's actually opposite of what you think here.
Cheaper stuff are the items that people will trust a reviewer on. For expensive stuff (>$10k) typically you'd get a loaner unit from a local rep and test its suitability for your specific application.
Review on really expensive gear also get very few views because it's outside of most people's budgets, so they generally aren't going to spend the time looking at it all.

Yep and that's the problem, where the money is proportional to the risk, ain't there.

Unless you have about $200k to throw at it, which you are prepared to risk losing fully outright, I wouldn't be going there (not to mention the time sink and emotional rollercoaster, not to be ever underestimated; been there, it sucks). I don't see how you can derisk this, as the 'worth' is only possible with the commitment upfront. No meaningfully MVP'ing this, you have to ramp up the investment darn quick.  The only way to slightly derisk is to go wide, but that will require a lot more investment up front, in effect try many things in the hope something sticks... Then you would be getting into spaces that have existing competition... Plus consuming more time... not good.

Having known you for many years, and what you appear to like doing & where your joy is, I'm not at all sure this is a good fit for you; given all the other 'stuff' it requires to stand a chance of working.

[EEVblog]

This proposed name creates a confusion with existing EEVBlab.

Yeah, not the best co-incidence.

[TheDefpom]

Pity I’m in the wrong country… you know how I like to review test gear, even though I’m not really an “expert”.

An idea that crossed my mind is to do guest spots, maybe just getting different people to review and test items, the reviewer gets to keep the gear as payment, I know I would do it.

[EEVblog]

As predicted, such an idea isn't going to get funding.
So back to the original idea of filling my dungeon with gear that you'd like to see used to in tests.
Please post your ideas in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevlab-equipment-list/

[bson]

Take a look at Project Farm, which does practical shootouts between various mechanic shop items like ratchet wrenches, engine oils and power tool batteries.  His supporters get to nominate what they'd like tested.  While a bit different, there might be something applicable.