need a decision support for an oscilloscope (DSO)

[Frank_MV]

Hello,

I need a decision support from you for the purchase of an oscilloscope (DSO)  for my hobby.
My favorite is the RTB2000 from Rohde & Schwarz, there is currently a promotion "all in" again, but 3900€ is too much for me.
2500€ is my limit.

I've read some things here on eevblog, but I'm not getting anywhere.
What I would like to see is a big display ( at least 8’’)  and a good representation of decoded serial busses,
I think that's what makes the RTB2000 really good.

A colleague of mine has a Signent SDS 1202 X, but the display of the serial busses is too unreadable for me.

In terms of bandwidth 100MHz would be enough for me, MSO is a "nice to have".
An internal arbitary generator with sweep function would be an advantage.
Reliability (repairs) and measuring accuracy would be important to me.

I have looked at Siglent, Rigol, GW Instek

 

Thanks in advance for all suggestions.

Best regards,
Frank

[KaneTW]

Having an RTB, I regret not going for an RTM. If you have some form of university association (or can BS your way into one), you can get another 20% off the  RTB I bet, which might push it closer to your target.

[Frank_MV]

Does Rohde and Schwarz offer a 20% discount ?

[KaneTW]

Let me find my invoice...

Datatec gave me a 30% educational discount off the RTB2K-COM4, from 5.5k (before the promotion was back) to 3.85k. I needed to supply documentation I'm in university (which was basically just a short document saying I'm enrolled in a degree) and that's it basically. I believe the discount is given by R&S, but I'm not sure how it works if you don't go through a reseller.

[Frank_MV]

Yes, I also read about the 30% discount at datatec.
It's a good idea, Kane.
I've been out of the university for 20 years, where should I get such a document ?

[tautech]

A colleague of mine has a Signent SDS 1202 X, but the display of the serial busses is too unreadable for me.

Old, real old model ^.
Have you looked at Siglent's newish SDS2000X Plus series ? Specifically SDS2104X Plus ?
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000xp/

In terms of bandwidth 100MHz would be enough for me, MSO is a "nice to have".
An internal arbitary generator with sweep function would be an advantage.
Reliability (repairs) and measuring accuracy would be important to me.

3 ticks to meeting all of these^

Thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/

[GabeG]

I'm also shopping in that price range, and I'm in the same place with the RTB2K.   If you're game for refurbished by the manufacturer, you might check out used Keysight MSOX2000-series.   They meet your screen size and price requirements; Keysight currently has an MSOX2024A listed on eBay with all the serial protocols unlocked for $2.5k.

[KaneTW]

Enroll at university for a Zweitstudium or something like that. Not sure exactly how that process works.

[mawyatt]

I recently purchased the Siglent SDS2102X Plus (wanted the 2104X+ but it was BO). This is my 1st DSO, I have a couple old Tek 2465, and a little reluctant on going with Siglent or Rigol since I had never even heard of them

During my career (advanced electronics research) I've always used and preferred Tek scopes, and HP/Agilent/KS for everything else, so you might appreciate my concern. Long story short is I couldn't be happier (except need 2 more channels  ) with the Siglent SDS2102X Plus, it has exceeded my expectations in every aspect of it's capability, use and construction

Caution, you never "Save" $ on equipment, the $ you have allocated will always be spent on more equipment, regards of the "apparent" savings on a particular piece 

Best,

[SilverSolder]

Many oscilloscopes support plugging a larger monitor into them.   So if the bigger screen is in support of visibility,  an external monitor could open up the choices for oscilloscope.

I have a 20" monitor suspended over my bench for these kinds of purposes.

[nctnico]

Many oscilloscopes support plugging a larger monitor into them.   So if the bigger screen is in support of visibility,  an external monitor could open up the choices for oscilloscope.

I have a 20" monitor suspended over my bench for these kinds of purposes.

But that would disconnect the touchscreen. If the serial decoding on the RTB2004 is the same as on the R&S RTM3004 then it will be hard to find an alternative which works so well.

[SilverSolder]

Many oscilloscopes support plugging a larger monitor into them.   So if the bigger screen is in support of visibility,  an external monitor could open up the choices for oscilloscope.

I have a 20" monitor suspended over my bench for these kinds of purposes.

But that would disconnect the touchscreen. If the serial decoding on the RTB2004 is the same as on the R&S RTM3004 then it will be hard to find an alternative which works so well.

Can a mouse be plugged in?

[nctnico]

Many oscilloscopes support plugging a larger monitor into them.   So if the bigger screen is in support of visibility,  an external monitor could open up the choices for oscilloscope.

I have a 20" monitor suspended over my bench for these kinds of purposes.

But that would disconnect the touchscreen. If the serial decoding on the RTB2004 is the same as on the R&S RTM3004 then it will be hard to find an alternative which works so well.

Can a mouse be plugged in?

That is not the same; a touchscreen interface is made for touch and usually doesn't work very well with a mouse (and vice-versa).

[SilverSolder]

Many oscilloscopes support plugging a larger monitor into them.   So if the bigger screen is in support of visibility,  an external monitor could open up the choices for oscilloscope.

I have a 20" monitor suspended over my bench for these kinds of purposes.

But that would disconnect the touchscreen. If the serial decoding on the RTB2004 is the same as on the R&S RTM3004 then it will be hard to find an alternative which works so well.

Can a mouse be plugged in?

That is not the same; a touchscreen interface is made for touch and usually doesn't work very well with a mouse (and vice-versa).

Not sure I understand - I happily switch between touchscreen and mouse on my touch enabled laptop. For example, two finger zooming on the touch screen becomes rolling the scroll wheel on the mouse?

I guess it depends on the implementation in each specific case?

[mawyatt]

Many oscilloscopes support plugging a larger monitor into them.   So if the bigger screen is in support of visibility,  an external monitor could open up the choices for oscilloscope.

I have a 20" monitor suspended over my bench for these kinds of purposes.

But that would disconnect the touchscreen. If the serial decoding on the RTB2004 is the same as on the R&S RTM3004 then it will be hard to find an alternative which works so well.

Can a mouse be plugged in?

I works on the SDS2102X Plus I have, actually works very well and complements the large touch screen

The mouse pointer moves to the touch screen gesture which is nice.

Although this does not have a direct monitor output, but supports LAN and USB interfaces.

Best,

[Frank_MV]

Enroll at university for a Zweitstudium or something like that. Not sure exactly how that process works.

Yes, that would be an idea ;-)

[Frank_MV]

tautech: "Have you looked at Siglent's newish SDS2000X Plus series ? Specifically SDS2104X Plus ?"
>>Yes, I have seen this.  The ADC has no real 10 bit resolution and the resolution of the display is 1024 x 600,
the RTB has 1024 x 800.
But I don't know now if you can really see the lower resolution from the display.
I have not yet found a video rewiew where I can see how well the touch screen works.

[Frank_MV]

I'm also shopping in that price range, and I'm in the same place with the RTB2K.   If you're game for refurbished by the manufacturer, you might check out used Keysight MSOX2000-series.   They meet your screen size and price requirements; Keysight currently has an MSOX2024A listed on eBay with all the serial protocols unlocked for $2.5k.

Ok, I will have a look. 

[Frank_MV]

Many oscilloscopes support plugging a larger monitor into them.   So if the bigger screen is in support of visibility,  an external monitor could open up the choices for oscilloscope.

I have a 20" monitor suspended over my bench for these kinds of purposes.

Yes, you're right about an external monitor, but unfortunately my pad is very small and I don't have room for it 

[SilverSolder]

[...]
Although this does not have a direct monitor output, but supports LAN and USB interfaces.

Best,

How does that actually work -  is it done with software that runs on the PC that "talks" to the scope, or something like that?

[SilverSolder]

Many oscilloscopes support plugging a larger monitor into them.   So if the bigger screen is in support of visibility,  an external monitor could open up the choices for oscilloscope.

I have a 20" monitor suspended over my bench for these kinds of purposes.

Yes, you're right about an external monitor, but unfortunately my pad is very small and I don't have room for it 

I have the same problem, but I found myself using a laptop on the desk most of the time anyway, so I just gave up and accepted a PC as a permanent part of the environment! 

[Frank_MV]

"But that would disconnect the touchscreen. If the serial decoding on the RTB2004 is the same as on the R&S RTM3004 then it will be hard to find an alternative which works so well. "

>> Yes, to my knowledge it is the same

[mawyatt]

[...]
Although this does not have a direct monitor output, but supports LAN and USB interfaces.

Best,

How does that actually work -  is it done with software that runs on the PC that "talks" to the scope, or something like that?

Mouse shows up on large DSD2102X Plus scope screen when plugged into the DSO (USB), then moves around as usual and has the usual behavior with buttons. Touch screen is still fully enabled as are all buttons, if you use touch screen gesture mouse pointer moves to touch area. Example you touch Channel 1 input area and new screen shows up with Ch 1 selections, mouse moves to Channel 1 selection window so you can either use mouse or touch, then you touch Trigger area, mouse moves to Trigger area, then you make touch selection on Trigger menu, mouse moves to Trigger Menu. and you can use mouse or touch to select.

Mouse doesn't have to be plugged in before boot up, can be plugged in anytime and DSO immediately recognizes it.

Very well implemented mouse and Touchscreen, works just as you would expect, so no "learning curve" required

If you are asking how remote access works with LAN or USB, I don't use these since they only support a PC and I only have a Mac. There is also another type interface which is Web based, but I don't know about that either.

Best,

[tautech]

tautech: "Have you looked at Siglent's newish SDS2000X Plus series ? Specifically SDS2104X Plus ?"
>>Yes, I have seen this.  The ADC has no real 10 bit resolution

Not real native 10 bit correct and the 10 bit mode is limited to 100 MHz BW which fits your needs.
3 bits of ERES can be further applied to the 10 bit mode.

FYI, I've checked the -3dB BW of SDS2104X Plus and it's some 185 MHz which is excellent for a 100 MHz scope.

and the resolution of the display is 1024 x 600,
the RTB has 1024 x 800.
But I don't know now if you can really see the lower resolution from the display.

The resolution is quite adequate for the SDS2000X Plus 10" display.

I have not yet found a video review where I can see how well the touch screen works.

Touch IME which is otherwise only with SDS5000X models is great although I have read some users have small difficulty in setting a zone which I have only tried a couple of times and indeed it is a little tricky setting a small zone but very easy with a mouse.
I tend to use Touch, a mouse and the physical controls for advanced use and prefer to have a mouse connected for general use as it's easier to use with the virtual keyboards for naming traces or files and a mouse scrollwheel is better in the longer menus.
YMMV

Edit
Oh and BTW a promo is running on the Plus series:
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/save-up-to-e1464-with-a-new-sds2000x-plus-oscilloscope-and-option-bundle/

[Andreas]

In terms of bandwidth 100MHz would be enough for me, MSO is a "nice to have".
An internal arbitary generator with sweep function would be an advantage.
Reliability (repairs) and measuring accuracy would be important to me.

What about a USB-Scope like PicoScope 5443D (MSO) ?
https://www.reichelt.de/de/en/usb-oscilloscope-100-mhz-4-channels-mso-ps-5443d-mso-p251228.html?&nbc=1

With best regards

Andreas