Magnova oscilloscope

[KungFuJosh]

Could you please post the audio track you used along with any information about the setup.   Basically, I would like to attempt to replicate your setup using my scopes and see how they compare.

I first saw this guy's stuff, which includes some links in the description:
https://youtu.be/jQjJZbgMw7E?feature=shared

The files shared I got from his youtube are here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UHvGC6-TDywFri7am8YJl5G6svK33qhC

The main things to remember setting up a scope is that:
1. If the orientation is incorrect, your channels (inputs) need to be reversed.
2. Lower memory depth = faster performance. I think I had mine at 10kpts. The higher up you go, the slower the response time, and more messed up the images get.

And since we're in the Magnova thread, maybe they can post a demo song. 😉

[Anthocyanina]

I wonder from a review standpoint, if using some of the X-Y analog scope, musical demos would be any benefit.  Obviously the idea is not to start the debate  of analog vs digital that we see repeating in the forums, but rather to get some feel as how they update the screen.

With very little effort, and lowered memory depth, I was able to get a very responsive musical demo on my digital scope. I posted it in the SDS2000X Plus thread.

Thank you very much.  I don't normally follow the scope threads and would never have seen it.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg5424095/#msg5424095

Could you please post the audio track you used along with any information about the setup.   Basically, I would like to attempt to replicate your setup using my scopes and see how they compare.

the latest Chris Allen has released is this one



as Josh said, he shares the .wav file in the description

i played it on the analog discovery 2, which has a surprisingly good XY display



i'm also interested in how all the new scopes do in XY mode so i would also like to see the magnova playing oscilloscope music

[nctnico]

Guy turning the adjustment knob on the one video didn't seem to sure they wouldn't damage it.   

I'm curious how fast they can update the screen.  Also what techniques do they offer to look at deeper memory and how responsive is it.   

I wonder from a review standpoint, if using some of the X-Y analog scope, musical demos would be any benefit.  Obviously the idea is not to start the debate  of analog vs digital that we see repeating in the forums, but rather to get some feel as how they update the screen.

Musical demos have next to no benefit where it comes to showing X/Y mode. For X/Y mode on a digital oscilloscope you either need some persistence OR an entire cycle needs to fit into the acquisition memory. For my practical use (looking at small phase variances) XY mode on any DSO has been good enough so far.

[KungFuJosh]

Musical demos have next to no benefit where it comes to showing X/Y mode. For X/Y mode on a digital oscilloscope you either need some persistence OR an entire cycle needs to fit into the acquisition memory. For my practical use (looking at small phase variances) XY mode on any DSO has been good enough so far.

Practical shmactical. Music is cool. 😉😉

[joeqsmith]

They are downloading now.   

I guess it wasn't clear but my goal wasn't to evaluate the X-Y mode of a DSO.  Rather I am trying to get a feel for how they update their screen.  Granted, its about as revealing as using an AM broadcast band radio to determine how much noise is on your supply rail.   Still, I suspect it would tell me something...  Maybe not..

[markone]

It's me or maybe the prices of the Magnova DSO line are a bit of a gamble for a product that will not be, warranty wise, covered by a solid brand present worldwide ?

I'm not saying that the product is not worth the price, but coming from a small company, based only in Germany, that mainly works as a reseller, 3000-5000 euros are a lot.

I am exaggerating ?

[Martin72]

Everyone started small, even the better-known brands.

[OneGeekGuy]

I was able to saw it in the EW, and looked good, still not 100% sure of not having buttons, but definitively the bigger screen is worth it.

I did not ask, but I am curious, if they just subcontracted a company to develop the Oscilloscope of if part of it was done internally in Batronix. Also, curious regarding accessories because the inputs they have pins for power? Communication?....

For the price (Pre order price) vs specs right now putting aside the fact is new, there are not many references and so on, might be a good option....

Lets see I am really curious since I think this year would like to get a new osci to retire my DS1054Z.

[Martin72]

The large screen with the high resolution is something that fascinates me most about the new Scope.
I'm still not sure if I like the almost no buttons design.
I'd like to borrow one to get to know it.
When the launch promo is over, the current largest model (350Mhz) will cost over 7000€, so expectations are high.

[markone]

Everyone started small, even the better-known brands.

This was true many years ago during the electronic gold era, now the market requires huge starting investments for a company to qualify itself as a trusted source of certain type of goods / services.

If you look at their Team page you understand that they have not an R&D department, they are not structured as a company that design and develop complex electronic instruments, I guess they committed the job to a third party.

It would be interesting to understand who he is ...

[Aldo22]

If you look at their Team page you understand that they have not an R&D department, they are not structured as a company that design and develop complex electronic instruments, I guess they committed the job to a third party.

It would be interesting to understand who he is ...

Batronix writes:

5-year warranty. You get a full 5-year warranty and our commitment to support you.

The design and manufacture of the Magnova takes place at our HQ in Preetz, a small town in Germany north of Hamburg. The case is manufactured by a renowned metalworking company near Stuttgart, while the PCB assembly is done in Magdeburg.

Only high-quality components are used to produce the Magnova. These include ELMA rotary encoders, rotary knobs with metal collets from Switzerland and micro switches from Denmark. The probes supplied with the Magnova are from Testec, based in Dreieich near Frankfurt am Main.

[markone]

If you look at their Team page you understand that they have not an R&D department, they are not structured as a company that design and develop complex electronic instruments, I guess they committed the job to a third party.

It would be interesting to understand who he is ...

Batronix writes:

5-year warranty. You get a full 5-year warranty and our commitment to support you.

The design and manufacture of the Magnova takes place at our HQ in Preetz, a small town in Germany north of Hamburg. The case is manufactured by a renowned metalworking company near Stuttgart, while the PCB assembly is done in Magdeburg.

Only high-quality components are used to produce the Magnova. These include ELMA rotary encoders, rotary knobs with metal collets from Switzerland and micro switches from Denmark. The probes supplied with the Magnova are from Testec, based in Dreieich near Frankfurt am Main.

So it's their own project ?

Under the "Development" section of "The Batronix Team" page i read :

"In the development department, Martin, Sebastian, Lars and Florian are responsible for the constant development of the programming devices, our online shop and the in-house ERP software.The proximity between development and sales allows us to react flexibly to change requests."

Design a certified and maintainable commercial instrument like this is a task quite different (and larger) from what i can read above, it also will need a significant sum of money, easily around something like one milion of euros, otherwise it would be an "amatorial" device that will need years to be fine-tuned to the level of a high-end instrument ... at the expense of initial customers 

[XiMMiX]

Everyone started small, even the better-known brands.

This was true many years ago during the electronic gold era, now the market requires huge starting investments for a company to qualify itself as a trusted source of certain type of goods / services.

If you look at their Team page you understand that they have not an R&D department, they are not structured as a company that design and develop complex electronic instruments, I guess they committed the job to a third party.

It would be interesting to understand who he is ...

Afaik they started out making/selling their own kits and only later started reselling test equipment. I think it is now over 20 years ago that I bought an eeprom programmer kit from them.
Sure a €3000+ oscilloscope is quite different from a programmer kit, but they do have experience creating and supporting their own products. According to their site they still have their own range of programmers.

[markone]

Afaik they started out making/selling their own kits and only later started reselling test equipment. I think it is now over 20 years ago that I bought an eeprom programmer kit from them.
Sure a €3000+ oscilloscope is quite different from a programmer kit, but they do have experience creating and supporting their own products. According to their site they still have their own range of programmers.

I would say it's a complete different game that needs a total different level of skills and effort, especially for a commercial product in mid-high range segment of the market, where customers are used to a certain level of quality and support.

If those skills are not in house, it would require a quite expensive external consultancy.

[ebastler]

Under the "Development" section of "The Batronix Team" page i read :

"In the development department, Martin, Sebastian, Lars and Florian are responsible for the constant development of the programming devices, our online shop and the in-house ERP software.The proximity between development and sales allows us to react flexibly to change requests."

Design a certified and maintainable commercial instrument like this is a task quite different (and larger) from what i can read above, it also will need a significant sum of money, easily around something like one milion of euros, otherwise it would be an "amatorial" device that will need years to be fine-tuned to the level of a high-end instrument ... at the expense of initial customers 

Batronix have developed, manufactured and maintained (admittedly simpler) "certified products" for more than 20 years. I am surprised and impressed that they are brave enough to take such a big step forward, but don't see why they should not be capable of pulling this off -- most likely with some additional R&D bandwidth, i.e. additional permanent staff and/or contractors.

You might have noticed that they did not announce the product development ahead of time, but preferred to reveal it with a splash at Embedded World. I think they would have been ill-advised to announce that their development team is working on this, or that they have hired new staff and/or contractors for a secret oscilloscope development project...

I think this is a good time for you to stop speculating. Maybe Batronix will comment on the composition of the development team, maybe they won't, because it's really none of our business.

[mk_]

Afaik they started out making/selling their own kits and only later started reselling test equipment. I think it is now over 20 years ago that I bought an eeprom programmer kit from them.
Sure a €3000+ oscilloscope is quite different from a programmer kit, but they do have experience creating and supporting their own products. According to their site they still have their own range of programmers.

I would say it's a complete different game that needs a total different level of skills and effort, especially for a commercial product in mid-high range segment of the market, where customers are used to a certain level of quality and support.

If those skills are not in house, it would require a quite expensive external consultancy.

you are repeating your scepticism again and again.
As long as "the others" get paid...who cares if batronix designed that stuff with support from others?   
So - what`s your point?

[markone]

-snip

I think this is a good time for you to stop speculating. Maybe Batronix will comment on the composition of the development team, maybe they won't, because it's really none of our business.

I sounds, at least,  as "a strong suggestion" 

Ahead the launch of a new instrument it is all speculation, especially in this forum, but I could understand that here the german public could be more sensitive to certain arguments.

I stop here with this topic, not because you ordered that, but because I understand that it does not lead anywhere, at least at current time.

So, who will be the first one who dare the purchase ?

[markone]

Afaik they started out making/selling their own kits and only later started reselling test equipment. I think it is now over 20 years ago that I bought an eeprom programmer kit from them.
Sure a €3000+ oscilloscope is quite different from a programmer kit, but they do have experience creating and supporting their own products. According to their site they still have their own range of programmers.

I would say it's a complete different game that needs a total different level of skills and effort, especially for a commercial product in mid-high range segment of the market, where customers are used to a certain level of quality and support.

If those skills are not in house, it would require a quite expensive external consultancy.

you are repeating your scepticism again and again.
As long as "the others" get paid...who cares if batronix designed that stuff with support from others?   
So - what`s your point?

Again, is it forbidden?

I can count tons of scepticism under EEVblog forums in all directions, it's called "free thought".

[DaneLaw]

Under the "Development" section of "The Batronix Team" page i read :

"In the development department, Martin, Sebastian, Lars and Florian are responsible for the constant development of the programming devices, our online shop and the in-house ERP software.The proximity between development and sales allows us to react flexibly to change requests."

Design a certified and maintainable commercial instrument like this is a task quite different (and larger) from what i can read above, it also will need a significant sum of money, easily around something like one milion of euros, otherwise it would be an "amatorial" device that will need years to be fine-tuned to the level of a high-end instrument ... at the expense of initial customers 

Batronix have developed, manufactured and maintained (admittedly simpler) "certified products" for more than 20 years. I am surprised and impressed that they are brave enough to take such a big step forward, but don't see why they should not be capable of pulling this off -- most likely with some additional R&D bandwidth, i.e. additional permanent staff and/or contractors.

You might have noticed that they did not announce the product development ahead of time, but preferred to reveal it with a splash at Embedded World. I think they would have been ill-advised to announce that their development team is working on this, or that they have hired new staff and/or contractors for a secret oscilloscope development project...

I think this is a good time for you to stop speculating. Maybe Batronix will comment on the composition of the development team, maybe they won't, because it's really none of our business.

Nobody is claiming they are obliged to inform - but to debate and analyze a new product on the market and how it is made by this German product supplier Batronix and the components it holds and the fundamentals and how it came to life and what areas perhaps were outsourced, is certainly "our business".. if the user markone wanna speculate, speculate away ..nobody saying you have to agree.
Sofar I think the UI certainly seems to have a vibe of its own, so kudos for that to Batronix/Magnova but also very early days, the info & feedback is extremely sparse..

[ebastler]

I can count tons of scepticism under EEVblog forums in all directions, it's called "free thought".

But once you have posted the same thing for the 5th time in a row, it's called an "obsession". 

[markone]

Under the "Development" section of "The Batronix Team" page i read :

"In the development department, Martin, Sebastian, Lars and Florian are responsible for the constant development of the programming devices, our online shop and the in-house ERP software.The proximity between development and sales allows us to react flexibly to change requests."

Design a certified and maintainable commercial instrument like this is a task quite different (and larger) from what i can read above, it also will need a significant sum of money, easily around something like one milion of euros, otherwise it would be an "amatorial" device that will need years to be fine-tuned to the level of a high-end instrument ... at the expense of initial customers 

Batronix have developed, manufactured and maintained (admittedly simpler) "certified products" for more than 20 years. I am surprised and impressed that they are brave enough to take such a big step forward, but don't see why they should not be capable of pulling this off -- most likely with some additional R&D bandwidth, i.e. additional permanent staff and/or contractors.

You might have noticed that they did not announce the product development ahead of time, but preferred to reveal it with a splash at Embedded World. I think they would have been ill-advised to announce that their development team is working on this, or that they have hired new staff and/or contractors for a secret oscilloscope development project...

I think this is a good time for you to stop speculating. Maybe Batronix will comment on the composition of the development team, maybe they won't, because it's really none of our business.

Nobody is claiming they are obliged to inform - but to debate and analyze a new product on the market and how it is made by this German product supplier Batronix and the components it holds and the fundamentals and how it came to life and what areas perhaps were outsourced, is certainly "our business".. if the user markone wanna speculate, speculate away ..nobody saying you have to agree.
Sofar I think the UI certainly got a vibe of its own, so kudos for that to Magnova/Batronix.

I agree to every single word, you have got exactly my point.

[mk_]

Again, is it forbidden?

No, it is of course not forbidden.

but it is kinda boring

[markone]

I can count tons of scepticism under EEVblog forums in all directions, it's called "free thought".

But once you have posted the same thing for the 5th time in a row, it's called an "obsession". 

Reply to other thread participants is called discussion, obsession would be to burst 5 contiguous posts in a row, this is not the case, at least in my book.

Anyway, I have already said that I consider it a closed topic.

I repeat my question :

is there anyone serious about buying this product ?

[nctnico]

Buying not directly but I would like to give it a thourough test to see how it holds when pushed to the limits.

[vk6zgo]

The situation rather reminds me of the German made Hilberling PT-8000A ham radio transceiver.

It was much touted in the late "2000s" as being something of a "super radio", with really good specs & the pictures of the construction looked like the inside of a high level RF test instrument.

The projected price level was somewhat higher than the top line models from established brands, but it looked so good that some were tempted.
Suddenly in 2008 came the announcement that due to "difficulties in meeting EU standards" production would cease.

That would have seemed to be that, however it popped up again in 2014, & again in 2017, but it seems to be "crickets" since then.
Obviously, the ham radio market is smaller than that for test equipment, but  the Hilberling saga is something of an object lesson about trying to enter a market which is already well served, particularly with a premium product.

The Hilberling company itself is well established in other fields, so didn't "go down the gurgler" as  some have done over the years.