LCR meter opinion

[rsjsouza]

As a newbie in the electronics hobby I’m looking at the DE-5000 and wanted opinions and maybe suggestions for other type LCR meter?

The DE-5000's agnalogue, the Mastech MS5308, may be considered. The DE-5000 is a good instrument, but it has problems at 100kHz that the MS5308 doesn't have.

Interesting; I didn't know the DE-5000 had these issues. In this case, you might also consider the Reed R5001, which works very well at this frequency.

It does not have four wire measurements, but its relative mode works very well.

[AJ3G]

I have never seen a REED before. Kind of looks like a CEM. Is REED and CEM one in the same?

Rich

[rsjsouza]

Yes, it is a CEM rebrand.
DT-9935
https://www.cem-instruments.com/en/Product/detail/id/1147

[Martin72]

Interesting; I didn't know the DE-5000 had these issues.

It isn´t an issue as long as you use the meter according to it´s specs.

[indman]

It isn´t an issue as long as you use the meter according to it´s specs.

This is an issue with the DE-5000 and a very unpleasant problem, since it is used according to the specification.
If an appliance has flaws, there is no need to hide them and write nonsense without understanding the problem.

[rsjsouza]

Indeed. Does it show in its manual a tremendously low accuracy specification for D at 100kHz? (The problem at hand in the other thread, as I understand it)

If so, then it is indeed operating as specified. Otherwise, look elsewhere if you need this frequency range.

[indman]

Indeed. Does it show in its manual a tremendously low accuracy specification for D at 100kHz?

Where in the manual does it say that the D parameter and the ESR have a really low accuracy at 100kHz? Finally, can someone explain to me, why MS5308 shows adequate results at 100kHz and is built on the same component base as DE-5000? Does it have a different D and ESR parameter accuracy claimed at 100kHz in manual?

[rsjsouza]

I don't know; I don't have this meter.

It was a question to Martin since he is so sure the device is operating under its specs...

[Martin72]

Hi,
Sorry guys,
I was completely convinced that the entire µF range of the table in the specifications at 100Khz included a dash, which means out of specs.
Then looked at the manual...
But.... there´s something strange in this table...
I think the few entries in the 100khz for µF range are faulty.
Will take my DE5000 to work and test the 100khz against our two calibrated LCRs.

Martin

[rsjsouza]

Interesting to see some of the blanked regions of the spec sheet, thanks for sharing.

Despite the Reed R5001 uses the same chipset, it has a more complete spec sheet.



However it does not come without flaws as well. I just recalled an ancient thread that discuss these flaws and proposed solutions. It also links to other threads with rebrands of the same model. 
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/reed-r5001-lcr-meter/

[Martin72]

Will take my DE5000 to work and test the 100khz against our two calibrated LCRs.

So I did today, but there was a strange thing that got me stop so far for further investigation.

At work we got a handheld calibrated LCR, keysight 1733C, and a stationary from sourcetronic.
DUT was a cap, a special one for snubbing from wima, 1µF.
First step was cap measure in itself.
Measuring with the sourcetronic, cap was 1.001µF at 100khz.
Keysight measured 0.993 µF.
DE5000 measured 0.950µF.
So far so good, but..
Keysight and DE5000 uses the alligator clip thing with short wires, the sourcetronic got kelvin clamp leads.
But for the sourcetronic we also got a test fixure with very short ways.
When I´ve used this thing, sourcetronic will measure....0.950µF.
So what to choose...must think about it, then repeat the measures from today, post them here.

Martin

[Martin72]

Hi,

I´ve changed the cap, the snubber one got not 100% contact areas, as it doesn´t got normal wire leads.
So I´ve taken a MKP 1µF, 250V cap and measure it.

1Khz:

U1733C            ST2830         DE5000

1.000µF            1.0008µF      1.0001µF
D0.000             D0.000         D0.000

10Khz:           

1.000µF            1.0007µF     1.0000µF
D0.031             D0.000        D0.001

100Khz:

1.044µF            1.0069µF     1.0029µF
D0.141             D0.010        D0.013

Everything´s fine with the DE5000....
Next days, I´ll measure a greater value, 2.2µF or little bit higher.

Martin

[mawyatt]

The SourceTronic 2830 looks like a rebranded Tonghui TH2830.

Best,

[indman]

Martin72,If this is not a measurement error, then I understand that the U1733C at 10 and 100kHz is already out of the list of reliable meters? The D reading is already 10 times higher than the other 2 units.

[Martin72]

Hi,

Yes, that was the surprise at this afternoon - The U1733C shows the behaviour the DE5000 should have, according to the other thread.
But let´s see what a greater values does, maybe tomorrow.

@mawyatt:

We got it from here:

https://www.sourcetronic.com/shop/en/lcr-meters/

[indman]

The U1733C shows the behaviour the DE5000 should have, according to the other thread.

If you look again at my measuring results and also pantelei4,you will see that problems with DE-5000 starts close to the 2μF margin.

[Martin72]

Therefore I wrote, I´ll test further with greater values.

[T_guttata]

I'm also currently looking for a reasonnably priced LCR Meter where you could possibly also measure small resistances  (4K probes).

In the range of $200 there are more options around.

Did you have a look at the Peak Tech devices?

https://www.peaktech.de/uk/Products/Electrical-engineering/LCR-component-tester/LCR-meters/

There are several options starting at about $50. I have a power supply from Peaktech.

The biggest difference seems to be the range of capacity and inductivity.

[nctnico]

Will take my DE5000 to work and test the 100khz against our two calibrated LCRs.

So I did today, but there was a strange thing that got me stop so far for further investigation.

At work we got a handheld calibrated LCR, keysight 1733C, and a stationary from sourcetronic.
DUT was a cap, a special one for snubbing from wima, 1µF.
First step was cap measure in itself.
Measuring with the sourcetronic, cap was 1.001µF at 100khz.
Keysight measured 0.993 µF.
DE5000 measured 0.950µF.
So far so good, but..
Keysight and DE5000 uses the alligator clip thing with short wires, the sourcetronic got kelvin clamp leads.
But for the sourcetronic we also got a test fixure with very short ways.
When I´ve used this thing, sourcetronic will measure....0.950µF.
So what to choose...must think about it, then repeat the measures from today, post them here.

I assume you have 'nulled' the wires & test fixture before making the measurements? At higher frequencies it is important to cancel the offsets introduced by the wires / test fixture of an LCR meter.

[Martin72]

Yepp.

Today afternoon a test with an wima mkp10 cap, 2.2µF:


1Khz:

U1733C            ST2830         DE5000

2.102µF            2.103µF       2.103µF
D0.001             D0.000         D0.000

10Khz:           

2.105µF            2.106µF       2.104µF
D0.018             D0.000        D0.000

100Khz:

2.351µF            2.389µF     2.121µF
D0.232             D0.015       D0.081

Still nothing to worry, next test perhaps with a 3.3 or 4.7µF - although it makes no sense at 100khz because of the high cap value.

[oz2cpu]

The SourceTronic 2830 looks like a rebranded Tonghui TH2830.
Best,

I own a TH2830, dont see any difference, please post more details about the ST2830
price ? where to purchase ?
the info screen ?

[Martin72]

Hi,

We got it from here:
https://www.sourcetronic.com/shop/en/lcr-meters/

[indman]

10Khz:           
2.105µF            2.106µF       2.104µF
D0.018             D0.000        D0.000
100Khz:
2.351µF            2.389µF     2.121µF
D0.232             D0.015       D0.081
Still nothing to worry

I strongly disagree, there is reason for concern, because the difference in the results for U1733 20 times, for DE-5000 - 80 times!

[nctnico]

10Khz:           
2.105µF            2.106µF       2.104µF
D0.018             D0.000        D0.000
100Khz:
2.351µF            2.389µF     2.121µF
D0.232             D0.015       D0.081
Still nothing to worry

I strongly disagree, there is reason for concern, because the difference in the results for U1733 20 times, for DE-5000 - 80 times!

You have to check the specs for the LCR meter. The accuracy depends greatly on the test frequency used. This has everything to do with the signal amplitude across the DUT at the test frequency. For example: a large capacitor has a lower impedance at higher frequencies so the voltage across a capacitor is smaller. In turn this means the accuracy becomes lower.

Still, the measurement results for the ST2830 at 100kHz should be much closer to 2.1uf; something is wrong here.

[TimFox]

The three meters agree tightly at 1 kHz on the nominal 2 uF part.
At higher frequencies, a bit of stray inductance in the test connections (not properly calibrated by the short correction) will affect the readings:  series inductance (including the self-inductance of the part) leads to an increased measured capacitance at higher frequency.