Keysight Scopmonth, Taxes when winning. Marketing-Bullshit?

[Brumby]

Perhaps after spending the weekend running around calling out 'The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!", Keysight came up with a simple solution and they've deleted what might be embarrassing posts.

I don't know - but it seems they were somewhat of a worrywart.

[GreyWoolfe]

moderators, please put this thread to bed and monitor the OP.  I don't think his behavior on this thread should be tolerated.

[mos6502]

So what happened? Did they respond and got it sorted for him? Has he declined the prize? Why all the editing? 

Why would he delete the posts if he declined the prize? Most likely, Hewlett-Agisight went, "OK dude, we'll arrange to ship you the scope from our local office, but first you have to delete those comments, they're bad publicity for us."

Also, what's with all the hate? For all we know, he might be a poor 16 year old kid living with his single mom. It's like everyone's assuming he's some cranky old rich guy living in a castle or something.

[Fred27]

KEYSIGHT! Once again you have made my life intolerable.

The Malaysian girl who hand delivered my scope and paid my taxes was 5 minutes late. And when she stroked my hair and read the instruction manual to me her voice was not at all soothing.

This is totally unacceptable to me. I shall unleash the full fury of both my patents upon you.

Sebastian

Although this is obviously made up I do not apreciate genuine looking fake quotes - "it's just not cricket!" You can now take 7 days to just observe the forum and learn boundaries.

Simon
Moderator

[Howardlong]

Also, what's with all the hate?

Hoist by his own petard. Unfounded accusations of ethnic discrimination, scamming and claims his life had been ruined among them.

For all we know, he might be a poor 16 year old kid living with his single mom. It's like everyone's assuming he's some cranky old rich guy living in a castle or something.

He claimed otherwise. As well as publicly claiming his name on two patents, unlikely for a 16 year old, he claimed in an unsolicited PM to me

Back in 2009 I had been to Rigol in Beijing for strategic talks. Do Minor's go to the Rigol Headquarter?

But yes, I agree, he's almost certainly a kid in out of his depth, and teller of tall stories, which probably would explain a fair bit including the deletions and bizarre behaviour.

Anyway we'll know if it's been returned as there'll be an additional scope up for grabs.

[Towger]

Once he started to complain of discrimination I was sure it was a wind up. Anyway, I hope thr real Sebastian W. enjoys his 4000X.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Why would he delete the posts if he declined the prize? Most likely, Hewlett-Agisight went, "OK dude, we'll arrange to ship you the scope from our local office, but first you have to delete those comments, they're bad publicity for us."

Nope, wasn't us.

[mos6502]

Interesting. Why would he start the whole thing but then delete his posts?

Seeing as there is no proof of the OP's identity, this whole thing might actually be a clever scam. "Hey, I just won this $17,000 scope. I'll sell it to you for $1000, but you have to send me $3000 in cash first so I can pay the import tax." Of course he plays the clueless victim so people will actually approach him first. Kinda like a reverse Nigerian scam.

It certainly sounded like some people here actually offered him money ...

[Howardlong]

The thought had indeed crossed my mind.

My only reponse to him via PM was "Frankly I don't believe a word you say". He then tried to get me to make an offer, needless to say I didn't respond.

A strange way to go about scamming though.

[rx8pilot]

I ignored his PM's as well. It is so unlikely that a 'deal' would have been a success.

I would rather finance and pay for a 4000x over 3 years than make a deal like that.

[mos6502]

A strange way to go about scamming though.

Oh, there have been stranger ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_hoax_of_1872

[Carrington]

I saw it coming, because all was turning very weird with this guy. 

I'm sure, more than one in the giveaway, doesn't even know what the hell is an oscilloscope.
They just know that it's an expensive thing, no need to know more.

Anyway, the side effects of this type of giveaways.

[Brumby]

Interesting. Why would he start the whole thing but then delete his posts?

Seeing as there is no proof of the OP's identity, this whole thing might actually be a clever scam. "Hey, I just won this $17,000 scope. I'll sell it to you for $1000, but you have to send me $3000 in cash first so I can pay the import tax." Of course he plays the clueless victim so people will actually approach him first. Kinda like a reverse Nigerian scam.

It certainly sounded like some people here actually offered him money ...

I hadn't really thought of that happening here - but I did get approached.

I just told him that the only way for this to work is if Keysight were to deliver it to me, then I sell it and buy him his Rigol - but I also told him that part of Keysight's T&Cs excluded such a redirection.  There's no way I would ever fork out up front.


But the more I think about it, the more the melodrama fits with something underhanded.

[Macbeth]

The whole thing hinges on what Keysight "sell" (or declare) the scope for anyway, surely? I mean if they sell it for 0 EUR then they make a business loss and there is no "Value Added" to tax? At most they can declare it at COGS (minus the 'S' because Cost Of Goods NOT SOLD are surely not subject to VAT).

It seems that KS can just stick any random value on the customs form, at no cost to them, and also no payment trail. Because you can always dispute a HMRC (or German Tax Gestapo) from their "valuation" of goods by proving you paid less for the goods imported. If KS "sell" a scope for $0, then surely that is a simple fact and no money has changed hands and tax authorities have no basis to "value add".

Of course, if you then go and sell the scope (as a business) the VAT will apply...

Hmm... I am minded now of the multi-billion carousel fraud that involved mobile phones that the EU bureaucrats seemed to invite in their ridiculous attempts at controlling markets...

#BREXIT - I love Europeans, but I hate the EU.

[Towger]

#BREXIT - I love Europeans, but I hate the EU.

The VAT problem is of largely of their own making and inexperience of running a competition like this. Solved simply by accounting and basically shipping to the winner from within the EC area. Which is what we thought they where doing in the first place, rather than from Malaysia.

Now BREXIT is actually a more interest topic to discuss.  I think many in the UK have forgotten being a member of the EC works two ways.
Will they be allowed to work in the EC without visas, nope. Even owning a holiday home in the sun may become problematic. But let's not get side tacked... /-)
 

[rx8pilot]

Then Keysight would have to pay the VAT on when it entered the EU, right?

[ebastler]

#BREXIT - I love Europeans, but I hate the EU.

Ah, right -- because VAT and import duties are an invention of the EU, were unheard of in the UK before joining the EU, and don't exist in any country outside of Europe?!  Come on... Feel free to be against the EU, but citing a tax/import duty issue as a reason seems rather stupid. If anything, the EU has essentially eliminated VAT and customs hassles for goods traffic inside the EU.

[Howardlong]

#BREXIT - I love Europeans, but I hate the EU.

Ah, right -- because VAT and import duties are an invention of the EU, were unheard of in the UK before joining the EU, and don't exist in any country outside of Europe?!  Come on... Feel free to be against the EU, but citing a tax/import duty issue as a reason seems rather stupid. If anything, the EU has essentially eliminated VAT and customs hassles for goods traffic inside the EU.

Not really: when doing business with another company within the EU I have to collect and check VAT numbers every time I sell something to another company inside the EU (but not in the UK) and supply products zero rated. For all UK sales and personal sales in the EU, I collect the tax on behalf of Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs. This added complexity and bureacracy frankly makes it a PITA to administer. A fundamental part of being in the EU was to make intra-state transactions easier, but actually the reverse is true.

[Simon]

I think we are talking about two different things here. VAT and import duty. There is no import duty within the EU. As much as I think we might be best out I wonder what it would do for my business selling Dave's uCurrents

[Howardlong]

I think we are talking about two different things here. VAT and import duty. There is no import duty within the EU. As much as I think we might be best out I wonder what it would do for my business selling Dave's uCurrents

There's an awful lot of FUD about that seems to be the cornerstone of the stay-in campaign: it would work in their favour if they could highlight what the concrete benefits are rather than hypothetical guesswork. Very much like the Chicken Little we've seen in this thread in fact!

[Simon]

We people as usual have been duped. I don't care what the plans are if we stay, I want to know what our government will do if we leave. What will they do with the savings, what will they do about the things the EU has so far decided/influenced. There are plenty of good rules from the EU (apparently) what will happen to those if we leave ?

as always it's politics: a cockfight, the actual facts are irelevant.

[Towger]

Then Keysight would have to pay the VAT on when it entered the EU, right?

They may or may not have to pay VAT on the imported scope.  They are moving the scope within the company and large international companies know evey trick in the book (and more) on how to avoid taxes.  If they do have to pay VAT it is on the actual cost price of the scope to them.  They can then deduct the VAT they paid against the VAT they collect on other sales.

There is no duty on electronics.

Once the scope is within the EC they are free to give it away.  They are not adding value to the scope, so there is no more VAT to pay.  They can then probably claim the cost of the scope against their corporation tax. 
If anything they may actually come off better going this route.

[ericloewe]

There is no duty on electronics.

But there is a 4.2% tariff on Oscilloscopes.

[Towger]

But there is a 4.2% tariff on Oscilloscopes.

It looks as if you are correct. :-(

Edit: Looking at the rules, if a company already owns the equipment and imports it for their own use there is no duty on it. But it they sell, hire or give it away 'free of charge', within one year of the date of importation duty has to be paid.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1775.html

[ProBang2]

But there is a 4.2% tariff on Oscilloscopes.

It looks as if you are correct. :-(
[...]

Sorry, but he is not. Only if it would be a CRT-scope.
A simple check of the taxation and customs information:
English: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&Taric=90302091&SimDate=20160316
German: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=de&Taric=90302091&SimDate=20160316

Just klick on the last link "9030 20 91 90 Other".