Keysight Scopmonth, Taxes when winning. Marketing-Bullshit?

[Wuerstchenhund]

This whole tax thing is pretty normal for winning prizes.

No, actually, this is pretty much a US (and where else the tax code is based on US tax laws) thing. Like taxing US citizens living abroad on income earned abroad.

[madires]

Paying somewhat for a winning prize is absolute uncommon in Germany.

Therefore it's seen as a fraud if you have to pay some money to get your prize. It's a classic fraud schema. You get a letter or phone call claiming that you've won some prize, e.g. a car. But you have to pay some fee or whatever to get the prize. You pay and never get the prize. If a German has to pay VAT for importing a prize it feels like a fraud too. It's cultural thing.

[continuo]

Yes, paying something to get a prize is considered a strong hint of fraud in Germany and usually connected to some form of scam. This is something a German would expect in a mail from Nigeria but not from a world company like Keysight 

[HighVoltage]

You could start your own business, get a business license "Gewerbeschein" get an EU VAT number "DExxxxxxxxxxx" and claim the VAT for this scope in the first month with the "Finanzamt" and you will have the VAT back right away. All completely legal AND above board.

[madires]

You could start your own business, get a business license "Gewerbeschein" get an EU VAT number "DExxxxxxxxxxx" and claim the VAT for this scope in the first month with the "Finanzamt" and you will have the VAT back right away. All completely legal AND above board.

... as long as the scope stays your company's asset. When you close your save-VAT-when-inporting-expensive-prizes business the company assets become your private assets and guess what, you have to pay VAT for the current value of the assets. 

[Howardlong]

Nigerian scammers tell you exactly how much they want and where to pay for the "prize". They support you for sure.

Christ, give it a rest please Sebastian. I really hope now that you don't get any prize at all, you certainly don't deserve diddly squat. You aren't behaving like someone who purports to have two patents to their name.

Are you going to be like this when you have to get a job in a few years time, accusing your employers of being scammers when they deduct tax from your pay?

Selling a car is easy, selling a MSOX4104A is different. I'm don't want to spend a lot on a scope I use 2 times a week and can't even sell it. Donating it is also troublesome, I have already thought about that as well.

Are you not old enough to have an eBay account or something?

Right now the only thing "ruining your life" is you bitching and moaning about a hypothetical problem of your own making.

As several of us have already stated, simply don't accept the prize and let those who, unlike you, would be appreciative of such a windfall a chance, and you can forget about the whole thing. There, I fixed it for you, what's the problem?

[HighVoltage]

Quote: Yes, paying something to get a prize is considered a strong hint of fraud in Germany and usually connected to some form of scam. This is something a German would expect in a mail from Nigeria but not from a world company like Keysight 


Nigerian scammers tell you exactly how much they want and where to pay for the "prize". They support you for sure.

May be people like you are the reason why Keysight is not offering their prizes in some countries.
I can not believe how low you are taking this.
As so many have said before, just refuse to accept the prize and close the subject.

[Brumby]

I have to agree.

It's simple...
* Keysight want to promote their products (I mean they are a business that sells products)
* Keysight is offering a number of prizes  (which have got people's attention)
* These prizes are available to people in countries where Keysight has been able to comply with local legislation (If you're in a country that's not included - you should try checking out your own country's legistlation.)
* For any tax/customs issues you have - blame your legislators NOT Keysight.

.... and for bonus points:
* Keysight are actively working with prizewinners to assist with the legislators' induced hardship.

How can you beat up on a company that's doing standard business practice AND going the extra mile?


I would be over the moon with a $5k scope - but one worth 3 times that (or more) would be mind blowing.  However, being in Australia means I can't even look at entering the scopemonth competition - but do you hear me bleating about that?  The fact that Dave is able to offer something in a similar vein is a rare thing indeed - and for that I am grateful.

But for the ability to be able to enter ANY competitions here in Australia and not have to worry about taxation, I have to THANK the law makers here.


As for Daniel at Keysight, I'll make you this offer ... if you're ever in Sydney, I'll shout you lunch.  Not because I want anything out of it other than letting you know your efforts are appreciated.

[rsjsouza]

Nigerian scammers tell you exactly how much they want and where to pay for the "prize". They support you for sure.

Wow... That is really absurd. You can't expect to be taken seriously with this kind of comparison, do you? You really come across as a person with a sense of entitlement so high that it must be others' fault you did not read the rules. When I lived in Brazil I was always careful not to enter these contests and giveaways before doing my homework and analyzing if it was affordable to win - differently than Germany, where you "only" pay ¹/₅ of the price, in Brazil you would end up paying 100% or more. That makes you think twice.   

I wonder why you think that Keysight must workaround the government tax for you: you have been warned in the contest rules. Also, the prize is physically located in Malaysia (and not Germany) and therefore they would have to deal with the paperwork to transfer the prize. 

Don't like the fact you won the jackpot? Give the opportunity away. Keysight is not in the wrong here.

[SkyMaster]

Quote: Yes, paying something to get a prize is considered a strong hint of fraud in Germany and usually connected to some form of scam. This is something a German would expect in a mail from Nigeria but not from a world company like Keysight 

Keysight should pull the plug on you.

[rx8pilot]

Quote: Yes, paying something to get a prize is considered a strong hint of fraud in Germany and usually connected to some form of scam. This is something a German would expect in a mail from Nigeria but not from a world company like Keysight 


Nigerian scammers tell you exactly how much they want and where to pay for the "prize". They support you for sure.

Please allow me to be scammed into a 4000x for only the cost of the government mandated taxes.

"I don't always get scammed......but when I do, I get scammed by Keysight", said the most technical man in the world.

[Monkeh]

They can do the "dumster solution", I have a very nice dumpster, much nicer than Daves. 

No they can't.

Accept the prize under the conditions you agreed, or refuse it and shut up.

[CustomEngineerer]

@CostumEngineer: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/my-ebay-hantek-buying-hell/ Similar problem but with less countries involved, and just a cheap Hantek-Scope,... Keysight may send me to the same "hell of international tax laws" on a more complex dimension(3 countries + Distributor) with 100 times the money involved.

Sebastian

I was suggesting you sound as unreasonable as Mikey2016 did in that thread. And your response really confirms that.

[nctnico]

This whole tax thing is pretty normal for winning prizes. It does become difficult when you win an item vs cash. Winning cash you just give half of it (or whatever) to the overlords. Winning an item you end up having to pay the taxes yourself.

Not here. In Germany is not such thing like tax on winning prizes. Example:
You win 10 000 000 € in a lottery. You get the whole 10 millions. Giving to the overlords: NOTHING.

It doesn't work that way in the NL so it has to be similar in Germany and... it is! https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennwett-_und_Lotteriegesetz
In the NL lotteries are obliged to specify prices with taxes paid and it seems that is the same in Germany.

[continuo]

It doesn't work that way in the NL so it has to be similar in Germany and... it is! https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennwett-_und_Lotteriegesetz
In the NL lotteries are obliged to specify prices with taxes paid and it seems that is the same in Germany.

No, that law only applies to the company or organisation who runs the lottery. If you sell lottery tickets, you have to pay tax on that. Has nothing to do with the winner of the lottery. The win is tax-free, but only if the win was based solely on pure luck, like drawing a random name from a pile of names. If you had to solve some riddle to win the prize, it will be taxed.

[Howardlong]

They can do the "dumster solution", I have a very nice dumpster, much nicer than Daves. 

No they can't.

Accept the prize under the conditions you agreed, or refuse it and shut up.

Are you interested in the Scope? Leave me a PM with your phone numer, I'll call you, I'm sure we can arrange a deal.

Look, no one I talked to was interested to pay 50%, or take it without an invoice from me,... I can't keep it, and I can't sell it either.

Why can you not issue an invoice or receipt? Seems a perfectly reasonable request. You don't need to be a company or VAT registered to issue a receipt confirming the sale of a personal item. Simply a piece of paper with the same details as that you'd get from shop when you buy washing powder.

In addition you're hardly helping yourself regarding price, I can hardly imagine this being a troublefree transaction bearing in mind your temper tantrums. 50% without a receipt is not a very good deal for a business purchase as it'll be difficult for the company to show it as a business purchase without simple documentation, so it will likely be taxed as personal income instead. Add the receipt and you'll have a lot more luck. I doubt there'll be many individuals willing to pay that sort of money for a scope for personal use. I would also be careful not to be too greedy, the amount you're talking about is perilously close to money laundering triggers which will certainly complicate the transaction.

Can we assume you have an eBay or Paypal account?

Better still, just don't take the prize at all. You've not told us why you won't do that and save your "life from ruin".

[oldway]

You look like someone who hardly could buy an used analog scope and who want an highly sofisticated dso.
If you had won a Ferrari car, for sure, you would complain that maintenance is to expensive.
You are not fair at all with Keysight.

[rx8pilot]

Decline the prize! Easy. Done.

You lost this contest before you won by being unable and unaware of how the world works. Keysight is indeed giving away free equipment. No, they won't pay your tax liability.

No, I will not send you a Rigol scope and pay your VAT bill as you requested in a DM. I would prefer that you decline the prize and let a deserving person win it instead.

Send them an email, tell them you cannot accept. In 30 seconds, this stupid bullshit you are pulling will be over. Someone else will get a chance. Be a good person and do the right thing.

Sent from mobile device.... Keeping it short and mis-spelled

[XynxNet]

Wow, this topic draws an amazing amount of hate.

As far as i see it, Sebastians options are rather limited, if he can't pay german tax.
1. He could decline the prize.
2. Keysight could deliver locally
3. Keysight might swap it to cheaper scope and he pay tax for that one.

Selling is not really an option.
If he isn't a company he can't write a tax invoice. No company would buy his scope under this condition.
A private buyer is rather improbable. Keep in mind Germany does't really have a great private market for high prized scopes.
If he sells internationally he would get into tax-hell part two, now from the other side.
In both cases he would have to pay additionally income tax for selling the scope.

If he registers a company for selling the scope he gets stuck with eu warranty law and ultimativly some form of tax again, for selling the scope.

[rx8pilot]

Option 1.

Sent from my horrible mobile....

[nctnico]

If he registers a company

Actually this isn't a bad idea but would take some effort to go to the registration office and get some information on what kind of company to register. If he gets the scope through his company then I he could sell it on more easely to a company and (in the long run) avoid having to pay the import taxes.

[Howardlong]

Wow, this topic draws an amazing amount of hate.

Indeed, bizarrely Sebastian has accused Keysight of ethnic discrimination and being akin to Nigerian Scammers, and of ruining his life.

As far as i see it, Sebastians options are rather limited, if he can't pay german tax.

He could if he took up a number of the offers he's been given here, including mine, but with regret I no longer would want to deal with this individual, I can't exactly see it being a smooth transaction.

1. He could decline the prize.

That seems to be the most viable option now bearing in mind his attitude.

Selling is not really an option.
If he isn't a company he can't write a tax invoice. No company would buy his scope under this condition.
A private buyer is rather improbable. Keep in mind Germany does't really have a great private market for high prized scopes.
If he sells internationally he would get into tax-hell part two, now from the other side.
In both cases he would have to pay additionally income tax for selling the scope.

Actually you'd be surprised. I've travelled to the US to pick up an HP VNA and to Germany just to pick up an Anritsu Site Master, both from private sellers, for my company. For the right price, people are prepared to work to get a deal. He doesn't need to issue a tax invoice, just a hand written receipt with the same details you'd get from a supermarket purchase, of course he won't have a VAT number as a private sale, that has no relevance as to whether he can issue a receipt or not. How does it work when you enter Germany with your foreign purchases you declare from abroad? Surely you don't go to the trouble of getting a tax invoice from the seller, a receipt is enough.

I agree, a private buyer is unlikely considering the value, but you never know.

If he registers a company for selling the scope he gets stuck with eu warranty law and ultimativly some form of tax again, for selling the scope.

He doesn't need to set up a company.

I'm pretty sure now he's a minor who's seriously out of his depth who didn't read and understand the terms and conditions, isn't used to be accountable or taking responsibilty for his own actions, and the sooner he comes clean about the real reasons for his extraordinary behaviour the better.

[stuartk]

I joined the contest to have a better scope,... . I would be happy with a free RigolMSO1104SZ with I2C&SPI decoding and the memory option. I know, not the best scope, but good enough for what I do at home.

Hi Sebastian,

Exactly what sort of deal are you looking for?

I'm sure Keysight would redirect your scope to the person of your choosing elsewhere, and liberate you from the need to pay taxes.

They also said they would send you a cheaper scope. Just say exactly what you want and someone on the list will probably work it out with you.

Stuart

[Macbeth]

Why would Sebastian even bother selling it when he "has access" to a company with 70-100 scopes? Clearly they will be VAT registered and could take this prize at absolutely zero cost to them. If he is a valued employee with 2 patents to his name I am sure they will earmark it for his own use it at his own discretion, providing it is for employee training purposes, etc...

Or he could cut a deal with a disposal of couple of existing capital asset scopes (I mean they have 30 scopes in the ether) for free or de-minimus?

[CustomEngineerer]

Are you interested in it for 30-50% tax, write me a PM, I'll call you and we arrange a deal.

If I am lucky enough to win a scope I would gladly pay whatever tax that incurs. But with the drama and lack of common sense you've displayed this far, making a deal with you sounds like it would be a very unpleasant experience. No thanks.

Why are you still wasting Keysight's time? Just tell them you don't want it so they can give it to someone who will appreciate it.