Keysight New instruments

[ResistorRob]

My answer would be neither, I'd buy the Fluke 8808A

However, if you want a bit more bang-for-buck, don't overlook the BK Precision 5492C. 

The Fluke 8808A is absolutely ugly. I don't want to look at that everyday, lol
The BK Precision 5492C seems nice, but I don't see any way it's superior to the Instek GDM-9060. It's one digit less and costs $100 more and has a more dated look to it.

I personally still prefer Keithey DMMs. They have all the common useful features, they have the performance, while also being very fast in general. They get high update speeds even with lots of digits, they autorange on ohms in literally the blink of an eye..etc. The fancy touchscreen Keithley DMM6500 is a bit pricey but still in line with what you would pay for a proper name brand 6.5 digit DMM.

I didn't want to drop that sort of money on a 6.5digit DMM tho so i picked up a used good condition Keyithley 2015 for about 400 bucks. It is so far my favorite DMM. But if i had no DMM and wanted to pick up a brand new high resolution bench DMM id go for a DMM6500 hands down.

That is actually my dream meter and if price was no object I would snap one up in a heartbeat. The problem is it costs double of the meters I mentions ($700 vs $1400). I do agree with everything you said and has me thinking maybe I should just save up longer and just get the meter I reaaallllyyy want.

How is the function gen the most expensive thing in that lineup? 

I was shocked by that as well. When I was in tech school we had one of those crappy 4 in 1 labs, so I have a bit of a sentimental spot for them. haha So my initial idea was to buy all 4 of these and 3D print a cabinet to put them in. But the price of the function gen is insane, so I can't bring myself to do it. Would be super cool to have 4 matching pieces of Keysight on the bench but I'm on a tight budget and looking for some value.

[Someone]

EDU33212A Dual Channel Function Generator; $915 US List Price
EDU36311A DC Power Supply; $838 US List Price
EDU34450A Digital Multimeter; $696 US List Price
EDUX1052G Dual Channel Oscilloscope; $722 US List Price

How is the function gen the most expensive thing in that lineup? 

Well we don't have any specifications yet, but its a big price down compared to the 33500 series. If it carries most of their capabilities then the price is excellent.

[gslick]

EDU33212A Dual Channel Function Generator; $915 US List Price
EDU36311A DC Power Supply; $838 US List Price
EDU34450A Digital Multimeter; $696 US List Price
EDUX1052G Dual Channel Oscilloscope; $722 US List Price

How is the function gen the most expensive thing in that lineup? 

Well we don't have any specifications yet, but its a big price down compared to the 33500 series. If it carries most of their capabilities then the price is excellent.

More info on the EDU33212A here...

EDU33210 Series Trueform Arbitrary Waveform Generators User’s Guide
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU33212-90002.pdf

Also:

EDU34450A 5½ Digit Digital Multimeter User’s Guide
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU34450-90002.pdf

EDU36311A Triple Output Programmable DC Power Supply
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU36311-90002.pdf

[balage]

Aaand: BenchVue is included! 

[Someone]

EDU33212A Dual Channel Function Generator; $915 US List Price
EDU36311A DC Power Supply; $838 US List Price
EDU34450A Digital Multimeter; $696 US List Price
EDUX1052G Dual Channel Oscilloscope; $722 US List Price

How is the function gen the most expensive thing in that lineup? 

Well we don't have any specifications yet, but its a big price down compared to the 33500 series. If it carries most of their capabilities then the price is excellent.

More info on the EDU33212A here...

EDU33210 Series Trueform Arbitrary Waveform Generators User’s Guide
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU33212-90002.pdf

Also:

EDU34450A 5½ Digit Digital Multimeter User’s Guide
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU34450-90002.pdf

EDU36311A Triple Output Programmable DC Power Supply
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU36311-90002.pdf

I can see why those aren't publicly linked yet, lots of placeholder/copy-paste and links to other documents (such as specifications) dead

From the user guide, a few features pulled out from the 33500 series (having not comprehensively read through all of it):
Isolated outputs
Sequenced arbitrary waveforms

[floobydust]

The 34450A Multimeter User Guide is needs some work:
pg. 37,38,40 AC sources do not have polarity, pg. 44 thermistors as well.

pg. 63/64 Measure DCV and AC ripple, the test circuit is wrong, should be on the secondary side?
The measurement results are also laughable 0.00175VDC and 78.782mV AC have you tried turning on power lol. 

pg. 94 bad URL to EDU34450A specs:
https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/3120-1002/data-sheets/EDU34450A-5-5-Digit-Dual-Display-Digital-Multimeter.pdf
redirects to:
https://www.keysight.com/ca/en/assets/3120-1002/white-papers/Exposing-Hidden-Security-Threats-and-Network-Attacks.pdf 

pg. 103 duplicate paragraph

"The EDU34450A supports USB flash drives with the following specification: USB2.0, 32GB, FAT32 format. We recommend using a SanDisk Cruzer Blade flash drive for the front panel USB port."
Only one size USB drive works?

I wish Keysight would blank leading zeros and get rid of the European? gap every three digits, looks nutty I've never liked that bad idea.

[bdunham7]

The Fluke 8808A is absolutely ugly. I don't want to look at that everyday, lol
The BK Precision 5492C seems nice, but I don't see any way it's superior to the Instek GDM-9060. It's one digit less and costs $100 more and has a more dated look to it.

I didn't realize it was a fashion show!

If you want 6.5 digits, BK has the 5493C.  I don't know where you are looking at prices, but the 5493C will be more than the GW-Instek--it's twice as accurate.

[2N3055]

The Fluke 8808A is absolutely ugly. I don't want to look at that everyday, lol
The BK Precision 5492C seems nice, but I don't see any way it's superior to the Instek GDM-9060. It's one digit less and costs $100 more and has a more dated look to it.

I didn't realize it was a fashion show!

If you want 6.5 digits, BK has the 5493C.  I don't know where you are looking at prices, but the 5493C will be more than the GW-Instek--it's twice as accurate.

GW Instek GDM-9061 is comparable product.. With comparable price..
In the same price range of Keithley DMM6500. While I'm still not convinced about DMM6500 (too much bugs for my taste so far) it might be better choice especially with that scanner card slot...

[2N3055]

I wish Keysight would blank leading zeros and get rid of the European? gap every three digits, looks nutty I've never liked that bad idea.

Why? I like leading zeros because it is obvious what range I'm in , and, well, euro way of writing numbers in math is superior... 

[SilverSolder]

[...]

I didn't realize it was a fashion show!

[...]

I suspect a lot more decisions are made based on what an instrument looks like that many would like to admit! 

[bd139]

It’s all fairly reasonable looking kit. I await UK pricing so I can go “prfffffft” and continue to buy Chinese origin stuff instead.

[HighVoltage]

I like the large screen of the function generator, that could be a real benefit, also fitting to the form factor of the scope. But the DMM seems weird at first glance.

Looking forward to Dave's videos.

[Venturi962]

Service Manuals for the Multimeter and Power Supply (some photos of the inside here):

EDU34450A Multimeter: http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU34450-90014.pdf
EDU36311A Power Supply: http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU36311-90014.pdf

Programming Guides:

EDU34450A Multimeter: http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU34450-90013.pdf
EDU36311A Power Supply: http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU36311-90013.pdf

[jusaca]

I'm actually shocked the most, that the manual actually has disassembly information! A picture-guided disassembly manual! Haven't seen that in quite a while But I think that is very cool

The EDU36311A power supply looks pretty promising, I think? I mean, the design in a scope case is a little bit confusing, compared to the E3600 series, but apart from that they seem to be pretty comparable? Only the awesome low current range with µA resolution is missing ;/
The power button seems to be a hard switch, if it is the same as in there scopes. That would even be a benefit, compared to the professional series!

[nctnico]

The Fluke 8808A is absolutely ugly. I don't want to look at that everyday, lol
The BK Precision 5492C seems nice, but I don't see any way it's superior to the Instek GDM-9060. It's one digit less and costs $100 more and has a more dated look to it.

I didn't realize it was a fashion show!

If you want 6.5 digits, BK has the 5493C.  I don't know where you are looking at prices, but the 5493C will be more than the GW-Instek--it's twice as accurate.

I just check but there is also a Instek GDM-9061 which is just as accurate as the 5493C but seems to be cheaper as well. Still no idea on which one actually is more pleasant to use and/or has features which could be handy to have.

[mawyatt]

Hat's off to Keysight for having service manuals, wish they would include schematics like the old hp and Tektronix days tho. Maybe others will follow with service manuals & schematics

Best,

[bd139]

Most things have service manuals. Getting at them is always the problem.

[floobydust]

Hat's off to Keysight for having service manuals, wish they would include schematics like the old hp and Tektronix days tho. Maybe others will follow with service manuals & schematics

Best,

Did you even look at them?
They're not "service manuals" but really a CAL manual or "service guide" as Keysight calls them.It gives no part numbers for replacement parts, a knob or a board. The only user replaceable parts are the fuse, CR2032 RTC battery- the entire reason for giving disassembly instructions beyond resetting passcode.
There is no right to repair here, if the PSU gave a sketch of the pass-transistor section at least that could be repaired as it's the least reliable aspect.
The PC board photos for the multimeter and PSU are the same lol.

I saw the clearout pricing for old 34450A price of USD $725.

[bd139]

It’s not worth repairing at that price. Engineer time and the fact it has a 3y warranty keep the TCO so low it’s not a trade off a business would bother with. For the lowly end user who finds one in a clearance auction, skip or on eBay, you’re not the target market.  The manuals are written for the dude who has to do the 1y, 2y cal and that’s it.

As an example I have an autonomous budget for about $35k a month but i can’t hire staff without going to corporate. That means I’m more likely to trade off buy vs build/repair.

[2N3055]

The Fluke 8808A is absolutely ugly. I don't want to look at that everyday, lol
The BK Precision 5492C seems nice, but I don't see any way it's superior to the Instek GDM-9060. It's one digit less and costs $100 more and has a more dated look to it.

I didn't realize it was a fashion show!

If you want 6.5 digits, BK has the 5493C.  I don't know where you are looking at prices, but the 5493C will be more than the GW-Instek--it's twice as accurate.

I just check but there is also a Instek GDM-9061 which is just as accurate as the 5493C but seems to be cheaper as well. Still no idea on which one actually is more pleasant to use and/or has features which could be handy to have.

Mickle posted a detailed review link to GDM-9061 here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-gdm-9060gdm-9061-6-12-digit-multimeters-experiencereviews/msg3211432/#msg3211432

[Fungus]

Hat's off to Keysight for having service manuals, wish they would include schematics like the old hp and Tektronix days tho. Maybe others will follow with service manuals & schematics

A schematic these days would just be a load of big chips with wires going between them. Not much use to anybody.

[floobydust]

I wish Keysight would blank leading zeros and get rid of the European? gap every three digits, looks nutty I've never liked that bad idea.

Why? I like leading zeros because it is obvious what range I'm in , and, well, euro way of writing numbers in math is superior... 

I went on that rant a long time ago, ended up at the SI or Metric Committee and gave up there. Euro writing using gaps or dots instead of commas always baffled me.
These new instruments are not metrology-grade. It's weird to see (out of the user's manual) "+3.000 7" the gap drives me nuts. Or "00.010 7" or "0.001 75" or "000.037"
Please show me more zeros, oh autoranging too dumb to change units multimeter. 37mohms I can deal with- even though the multimeter's resolution hits the floor those some functions. If I'm manual ranging, why not show the appropriate range units (u,m,k etc.)? Instead it's padded with zeros. Minor gripe.

[mawyatt]

Hat's off to Keysight for having service manuals, wish they would include schematics like the old hp and Tektronix days tho. Maybe others will follow with service manuals & schematics

A schematic these days would just be a load of big chips with wires going between them. Not much use to anybody.

I suspect the Power Supply has a few more discrete components than the DMM, so a schematic would indeed be very helpful!! As mentioned the series-pass devices (MOS or Bipolar) are the weak link in most Power Supplies, and when they go it's usually a terminal to terminal short which takes out other components.

Past experience indicates semiconductors always fail first to protect the fuses, not the other way around

Best,

[2N3055]

I wish Keysight would blank leading zeros and get rid of the European? gap every three digits, looks nutty I've never liked that bad idea.

Why? I like leading zeros because it is obvious what range I'm in , and, well, euro way of writing numbers in math is superior... 

I went on that rant a long time ago, ended up at the SI or Metric Committee and gave up there. Euro writing using gaps or dots instead of commas always baffled me.
These new instruments are not metrology-grade. It's weird to see (out of the user's manual) "+3.000 7" the gap drives me nuts. Or "00.010 7" or "0.001 75" or "000.037"
Please show me more zeros, oh autoranging too dumb to change units multimeter. 37mohms I can deal with- even though the multimeter's resolution hits the floor those some functions. If I'm manual ranging, why not show the appropriate range units (u,m,k etc.)? Instead it's padded with zeros. Minor gripe.

Truth is, you're right, these devices have graphical screens, displayed values could be made more human readable. And, just to be clear, in math we write numbers with comma as a decimal point, and spaces between groups of 3 digits. But space is not full digit space, it's just tiny gap to be visible but not to break number as a  whole. I also have problems with  how they display 1 000 000.
It should be more like 1 000 000 or even less space.
On graphics screen, piece of cake. But, noooo...

[EEVblog]

Truth is, you're right, these devices have graphical screens, displayed values could be made more human readable. And, just to be clear, in math we write numbers with comma as a decimal point, and spaces between groups of 3 digits.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that your country is the centre of the world. Comma for the decimal point is not used everywhere, it's mostly european thing. Not in the biggest places where electroncis are developed, like the US, UK, Japan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore and Korea:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator