Keysight New instruments

[EEVblog]

People inside Keysight are furiously watching it seems!

[EEVblog]

Sadly it doesn't look like the new meter has any of the cool trendplotting stuff in the 34465 does 
It does data logging, but I can't even display it on the screen  Heck I can't even figure out how to save it to USB...
On the plus side, you can display voltage and current at the same time.

[floobydust]

People inside Keysight are furiously watching it seems!

34450A has been around several years? I think the developers are rushed and after the product release, it's not a priority to fix anything nor is there any budget to do this because the project is "finished". The main reason I shy away from purchasing Keysight is they are far too lean on F/W maintenance. 34450A Firmware Update (Revision: 01.03-01.01) Release Date 2019-03-18
At least it has no cooling fan, just annoying leading zeros not blanked.

The new stuff, cooling vent on the side so stacking them seems to block that?

[tautech]

People inside Keysight are furiously watching it seems!

Daniel and Sim (the new Charles) have already been here a few hours back checking on predeedings.

JUst shot another quick video to show an issue on the manual ranging as well. With the input probes just sitting there on my bench, I get overloading on the manual 1V range, and it alternates between overload and some random voltage, this is with fixed 10M input.
Also, I didn't realise last time that I had the ground probe in the wrong jack, it was in the sense jack. Guess they neede more visual differentiation there.
Anyway, in fast sampling mode I get the autorange issue cying the range relay at 5+ times per second, it makes a hell of a racket, again at 10M input.
I think they still have a few issues to iron out...

And with the leads shorted ?

[balage]

Sadly it doesn't look like the new meter has any of the cool trendplotting stuff in the 34465 does 
It does data logging, but I can't even display it on the screen  Heck I can't even figure out how to save it to USB...
On the plus side, you can display voltage and current at the same time.

No way that the big screen cannot plot the logged samples!  Isn't it capable for sure?!
Maybe it is how KS wants to sell BenchVue; "you need plots? buy the PC software  "

[EEVblog]

Sadly it doesn't look like the new meter has any of the cool trendplotting stuff in the 34465 does 
It does data logging, but I can't even display it on the screen  Heck I can't even figure out how to save it to USB...
On the plus side, you can display voltage and current at the same time.

No way that the big screen cannot plot the logged samples!  Isn't it capable for sure?!

Ah, found it, you can display the log, but it's not full screen, it's not even the screen width, data table underneath.
No ability that I can find to get a live view graph.

[EEVblog]

And with the leads shorted ?

Shorted it's fine.

[TheSteve]

People inside Keysight are furiously watching it seems!

34450A has been around several years? I think the developers are rushed and after the product release, it's not a priority to fix anything nor is there any budget to do this because the project is "finished". The main reason I shy away from purchasing Keysight is they are far too lean on F/W maintenance. 34450A Firmware Update (Revision: 01.03-01.01) Release Date 2019-03-18
At least it has no cooling fan, just annoying leading zeros not blanked.

The new stuff, cooling vent on the side so stacking them seems to block that?

I don't know if they added any new features but there have been 17 firmware releases for the 34450A so it seems they do have an interest in maintaining the firmware and fixing bugs.

[Fungus]

I have mixed feelings about meter size.   The sad reality is that as I get older and the eyes are not what they use to be large devices and screens have a real appeal.

Large screen isn't a garantee of large letters or high contrast.

[Bassman59]

The form factor is odd for a bench DMM, but there are cases when less depth is a big plus. 

I have the Rigol DP831 and it's so deep that it doesn't fit on my bench. I have to set it up sideways. Wider/taller would work well. (And I should've waited for the GW Instek supply I actually wanted to come back into stock, but that's a separate issue.)

[bd139]

Sadly it doesn't look like the new meter has any of the cool trendplotting stuff in the 34465 does 
It does data logging, but I can't even display it on the screen  Heck I can't even figure out how to save it to USB...
On the plus side, you can display voltage and current at the same time.

Does it have an ethernet hole in it? Mostly interested in LXI stuff here.

[SilverSolder]

[...]
I have the Rigol DP831 and it's so deep that it doesn't fit on my bench.
[...]

Another way to look at it is,  "My bench is so short that a Rigol DP831 won't fit on it"! 

[Berni]

The form factor is odd for a bench DMM, but there are cases when less depth is a big plus. 

I have the Rigol DP831 and it's so deep that it doesn't fit on my bench. I have to set it up sideways. Wider/taller would work well. (And I should've waited for the GW Instek supply I actually wanted to come back into stock, but that's a separate issue.)

I have a Rigol DP832 and it is the perfect size. Fits like a glove among all of its half-rack width DMM buddies on top. Depth is also similar to all the other ones that I call "shallow depth rack size" of about 40cm. The shelf dimensions were designed with this common instrument size in mind.

The ones that i call "deep rack size" of 60cm is what is common for the big boatanchor test gear. I personally keep those in a big server rack instead. But that dimension range is a dieing breed, mostly used by old gear apart from things that are not as easy to shrink down like giant rack mount PSUs and similar. So id say the before mentioned 40cm deep half-rack wide box is the new standard test gear size.

[floobydust]

People inside Keysight are furiously watching it seems!

34450A has been around several years? I think the developers are rushed and after the product release, it's not a priority to fix anything nor is there any budget to do this because the project is "finished". The main reason I shy away from purchasing Keysight is they are far too lean on F/W maintenance. 34450A Firmware Update (Revision: 01.03-01.01) Release Date 2019-03-18 [...]

I don't know if they added any new features but there have been 17 firmware releases for the 34450A so it seems they do have an interest in maintaining the firmware and fixing bugs.

The 'ol 34450A last F/W release was 2019-03-18, how is that current. It's not the number of bugs fixed, although that does say something for the S/W dev and testing process, but just supporting existing products. Let me know if this is an unrealistic expectation.

Digital camera manufacturers, some maintain their firmware for years even adding new features, while other manufacturers don't do much past the product's release.
With me, Keysight will not live down the 34461A initial firmware release where the continuity beeper did not work reliably. For that to sneak through testing was a sad moment for me. There were a lot of bugs corrected over the years something I hate running into in a piece of test equipment. Two years to fix memory leaks. Sorry but I have trouble getting excited about their new product releases, after banging my head with various bugs, pleading with KS to fix them and showing it's not "user error", then dying of old age waiting for the update.

I hope they fixed the cooling fan design howling and wailing like a banshee lol.

[SilverSolder]

People inside Keysight are furiously watching it seems!

34450A has been around several years? I think the developers are rushed and after the product release, it's not a priority to fix anything nor is there any budget to do this because the project is "finished". The main reason I shy away from purchasing Keysight is they are far too lean on F/W maintenance. 34450A Firmware Update (Revision: 01.03-01.01) Release Date 2019-03-18 [...]

I don't know if they added any new features but there have been 17 firmware releases for the 34450A so it seems they do have an interest in maintaining the firmware and fixing bugs.

The 'ol 34450A last F/W release was 2019-03-18, how is that current. It's not the number of bugs fixed, although that does say something for the S/W dev and testing process, but just supporting existing products. Let me know if this is an unrealistic expectation.

Digital camera manufacturers, some maintain their firmware for years even adding new features, while other manufacturers don't do much past the product's release.
With me, Keysight will not live down the 34461A initial firmware release where the continuity beeper did not work reliably. For that to sneak through testing was a sad moment for me. There were a lot of bugs corrected over the years something I hate running into in a piece of test equipment. Two years to fix memory leaks. Sorry but I have trouble getting excited about their new product releases, after banging my head with various bugs, pleading with KS to fix them and showing it's not "user error", then dying of old age waiting for the update.

I hope they fixed the cooling fan design howling and wailing like a banshee lol.

You know the old adage, "never buy v1.0 of anything" - it became an adage for a reason!

[exe]

Datasheet it 50 pages of synergies and designer bullshit and all the crapwords, and then few lines of specifications : 2 kHz AC bandwidth, 5 ¾ digit, display range 40.000 points, meaning it is 4.5 digit meter but they straight up lie it is more than 5.5...
And it costs more than Keithley 6500 and Keysight 34460A...

I think 40k points is probably related to displaying plots.

I've been at the company's booth a couple of years ago. I had only a glance at their equipment, so no real experience, but it felt cool. They integrate their equipment right into the bench. The UI is also quite interesting: touch sensors, touch screen. I wish they had more affordable prices.

[2N3055]

Datasheet it 50 pages of synergies and designer bullshit and all the crapwords, and then few lines of specifications : 2 kHz AC bandwidth, 5 ¾ digit, display range 40.000 points, meaning it is 4.5 digit meter but they straight up lie it is more than 5.5...
And it costs more than Keithley 6500 and Keysight 34460A...

I think 40k points is probably related to displaying plots.

I've been at the company's booth a couple of years ago. I had only a glance at their equipment, so no real experience, but it felt cool. They integrate their equipment right into the bench. The UI is also quite interesting: touch sensors, touch screen. I wish they had more affordable prices.

No, it is a 40000 count meter. And you are not wrong, it is cool, but Uni-T UT181 is better meter.
Hard pass....

[SilverSolder]

[...]
I hope they fixed the cooling fan design howling and wailing like a banshee lol.

Speaking of cooling fans,  I just finished repairing a "for parts" electronic load, an acdc brand EL300.   I couldn't believe how quiet the fan was, especially considering how much air it pumps.  Looking at the well made, cast aluminum, heavy, and smooth running fan, it would probably cost more today than the entire budget for a modern electronic device!

[exe]

No, it is a 40000 count meter. And you are not wrong, it is cool, but Uni-T UT181 is better meter.
Hard pass....

Idk, it shows here "-0.00002" at 1000V range: https://youtu.be/kVYaTmI3Qg0?t=69 . Accuracy specification is only 0.08%+5digits, which I think is quite low.

[ResistorRob]

Sadly it doesn't look like the new meter has any of the cool trendplotting stuff in the 34465 does 
It does data logging, but I can't even display it on the screen  Heck I can't even figure out how to save it to USB...
On the plus side, you can display voltage and current at the same time.

Thanks for answering the question I wanted an answer to but didn't ask. I didn't want to be a pain in the rump and ask questions about a product you're not supposed to talk about.
It's very disappointing it doesn't have the cool trend plot feature, but at least it has a data logger.

Open to opinions from anyone on this question.... If you could have only one bench meter for your lab would you go for the new GW Instek with the color display (seems to be loaded) or this Keysight DMM?
I have it narrowed down to these 2, but I do also like the new Hantek clone of the Keysight bench meter. I'm just a serious hobbyist and very poor so whatever I buy needs to last me 10 years.
Suggestions?

[bdunham7]

so whatever I buy needs to last me 10 years.

I'm not sure I'd count on that with any of the new stuff, quite frankly.  Try to at least get a 3 year warranty.  My answer would be neither, I'd buy the Fluke 8808A if I could only have one bench meter and it had to be less than $1K and last a long time. 

However, if you want a bit more bang-for-buck, don't overlook the BK Precision 5492C.  You can download and try the software free from their website and it doesn't have a 1 hour limitation either.  I don't know if it has a demo mode or how much you can see without actually having a meter.

[Berni]

Open to opinions from anyone on this question.... If you could have only one bench meter for your lab would you go for the new GW Instek with the color display (seems to be loaded) or this Keysight DMM?
I have it narrowed down to these 2, but I do also like the new Hantek clone of the Keysight bench meter. I'm just a serious hobbyist and very poor so whatever I buy needs to last me 10 years.
Suggestions?

I personally still prefer Keithey DMMs. They have all the common useful features, they have the performance, while also being very fast in general. They get high update speeds even with lots of digits, they autorange on ohms in literally the blink of an eye..etc. The fancy touchscreen Keithley DMM6500 is a bit pricey but still in line with what you would pay for a proper name brand 6.5 digit DMM.

I didn't want to drop that sort of money on a 6.5digit DMM tho so i picked up a used good condition Keyithley 2015 for about 400 bucks. It is so far my favorite DMM. But if i had no DMM and wanted to pick up a brand new high resolution bench DMM id go for a DMM6500 hands down.

No problem with a decent bench DMM lasting 10 years. The technology in DMMs has not progressed all that much in the last 20 years apart from perhaps 6.5 digit DMMs getting cheaper. So i wouldn't expect bench DMMs to get much better in the next 10 years.

[msuthar]

EDU33212A Dual Channel Function Generator; $915 US List Price
EDU36311A DC Power Supply; $838 US List Price
EDU34450A Digital Multimeter; $696 US List Price
EDUX1052G Dual Channel Oscilloscope; $722 US List Price

[Zlotnik]

I personally still prefer Keithey DMMs. They have all the common useful features [...]

While it's OT for this thread, I'd like to second that. The modern Keithleys have feature that I haven't seen with any of the others: you can script them in lua on the device! (They call it TSP script, but it's effectively lua)
I found this to be very useful for complex, long measurements. Much more self-contained and simpler to set up than eg pyvisa et al.

The fancy touchscreen Keithley DMM6500 is a bit pricey but still in line with what you would pay for a proper name brand 6.5 digit DMM.

Price-wise, I was surprised how competitive the Keithley is. Cheaper than Keysight, and only about 30% more expensive than GW-Instek and BK Precision, 40% more than Siglent. At significantly better specs and features.

I'll stop the OT now though.
Looking forward to seeing what the new budget Keysight line will bring!

[EEVblog]

EDU33212A Dual Channel Function Generator; $915 US List Price
EDU36311A DC Power Supply; $838 US List Price
EDU34450A Digital Multimeter; $696 US List Price
EDUX1052G Dual Channel Oscilloscope; $722 US List Price

How is the function gen the most expensive thing in that lineup?