Keysight Scary Letter

[gnavigator1007]

Feel bad that Daniel has been stuck dealing with the fallout of this on the forum when this would appear to not be his area otherwise. Not sure that it would help with some of the more rigid members that have received this letter, but it might not be a bad idea for Marc Mayer to respond personally here.

[jjoonathan]

Feel bad that Daniel has been stuck dealing with the fallout of this on the forum

You and me both.

Not sure that it would help with some of the more rigid members that have received this letter, but it might not be a bad idea for Marc Mayer to respond personally here.

If someone has already decided to ignore registered mail with his signature on it why would that change their mind?

When I wrote "playing dead bug not responding", I didn't mean Daniel, of course, but those folks from whom the scary letters go.

Use. Your. Telephone.

[jjoonathan]

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[bitseeker]

This is the first time I've seen an incident like this with old gear. Following along to see how it all turns out.

[Simon]

Replying to both Fraser and soldar...

That was handled how it should have been. Any threats, police.

However I’ve had eBay directly cough up themselves immediately after quoting CRA 2015 at them to the tune of £300 over the last couple of years. Firstly because in a four party agreement, one party (Argos) failed and they were not subcontracted by me but the intermediatory (eBay). Secondly because the seller did not respond and provided a fake tracking ID. They were not responsive to my complaints suggesting I take it up with the seller. A letter headed reminder from the legal firm I was working for at the time was sent to them and they responded within 24 hours with a complete refund.

The problem is regardless of what eBay say they are, their entire business swings on ignorance of legislation designed to protect the buyer. And they know that very well. A contract can be written which is contrary to statutory law but that doesn’t mean that it is applicable, just people who read it think it is. That’s SOP in 2018. Apple do it with their warranty claims process as well. Their lawyers know this. The terms are clear. But that doesn’t affect your rights (unless you live somewhere with poor consumer rights)

Ebay I have found write their own terms ignorant of law and other peoples terms, they over rule GDPR law and they have terms that contradict the terms of other companies that aroe the deciding factor like resolution times for undelivered goods that cannot yet be claimed as lost by the couriers terms. I avoid them and those that want to do business with me through them have to pay a premium.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Feel bad that Daniel has been stuck dealing with the fallout of this on the forum when this would appear to not be his area otherwise. Not sure that it would help with some of the more rigid members that have received this letter, but it might not be a bad idea for Marc Mayer to respond personally here.

You're too kind, I sort of enjoy it in some sick way  . Anything on the forum has pseudo become my area - they say possession is 9/10 of the law!

I'll mention it to Marc, but odds are I'll act as a sort of spokesman in this situation since I have the history here. I've personally talked with him about this thread, so any facts/info that I've given is coming from him. I've not asked for a full rundown on the plan at this point because there's nothing I could do with that info, but I'm aware of the situation we're trying to fix. My understanding is that things are still a bit in flux, but we're definitely not going to do anything malicious or what Marc would consider to be aggressive towards people with the equipment in question.

In my limited experience, that letter seems to be a pretty benign one. However, it's very easy to perceive any sort of action like that as hostile just because it's coming from lawyers.

Thank you everyone for your patience!

[Towger]

Yet, Marc is not replying to his requested email.  This annoys customers.   A more professional approach is thanking customers for responding to the emails/letters and informing them of the current state of play.  Even if it is to inform them of a delay.

[HighVoltage]

Thank you everyone for your patience!

Thanks Daniel

Can you say, if this is limited to the USA or North American market?
Or can we expect anything like this also in the European market.

Also:
I am constantly buying older Agilent / HP gear on eBay in Europe.
What to watch out for, so we will not end up in this legal spiral?
 

[Zucca]

A letter headed reminder from the legal firm I was working for at the time was sent to them and they responded within 24 hours with a complete refund.

I wish to have a lawyer in my relatives circles.

[bd139]

You can just pay one to write what the hell you want on a bit of paper.

So can keysight for reference...

[Brumby]

Also:
I am constantly buying older Agilent / HP gear on eBay in Europe.
What to watch out for, so we will not end up in this legal spiral?

I'm going to jump in on this one:  I believe you won't have anything you can check.  It will just be a random event as far as anyone buying second hand gear is concerned.

My suggestion is to just buy whatever seems reasonable - or don't buy anything.  Keep some basic records of what you bought and from whom and if sold on, who bought it.

If people get too paranoid, then the second hand market is going to die with a whimper.

[analogRF]

Thank you everyone for your patience!

Thanks Daniel

Can you say, if this is limited to the USA or North American market?
Or can we expect anything like this also in the European market.

Also:
I am constantly buying older Agilent / HP gear on eBay in Europe.
What to watch out for, so we will not end up in this legal spiral?

one person had a BK Precision equipment and received the letter from Keysight a few pages back...

[Brumby]

... I sort of enjoy it in some sick way  .

OK.  You belong here - and deserve everything you get 

My understanding is that things are still a bit in flux

I suspect the initial contact was a knee jerk reaction - possibly to get the word out sooner than later in order to pin gear down before it gets sold on.  Then people sat down to work out how to proceed.  This explains exactly what we are seeing right now.

[mnementh]

mnem
 

[Towger]

Can you say, if this is limited to the USA or North American market?
Or can we expect anything like this also in the European market.

GDPR...

[MadTux]

GDPR...

But what if I accidentally "lost" the equipment, sold it or or gave it to some friend, whose name I forgot
Or the serial number plate fell off?
And I've heard that there might be some cheap "serial number carriers" available from Israel, that otherwise have little use, because the equipment is totally rusted inside, because of spending years in a salt desert. Might be useful for trade in.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

My understanding is that it will be mostly US/North America, but can't say definitively that there won't be any in other parts of the world.

[zitt]

one person had a BK Precision equipment and received the letter from Keysight a few pages back...

Yeap. That would be me.
And Nothing from the email address whom sent the "suspect" letter... but admittedly I was less than helpful.
I'm still firmly in the camp of not my problem. These yahoos aren't making this easy with all the cloak and dagger, no response black-hole crap.
I honestly have better things to do than pick up the phone - and really don't have the time with the day job an such.
Not to mention for them to have a legal voice record of what was said on that call. I mean; I'm stupid... but not that stupid.

[Brumby]

And Nothing from the email address whom sent the "suspect" letter... but admittedly I was less than helpful.

Somehow, I think you won't be the only one.  If they have any feel for how different people react, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem for them to take it on the chin.

I'm still firmly in the camp of not my problem. These yahoos aren't making this easy with all the cloak and dagger, no response black-hole crap.

While I do believe there is an element of confidentiality involved, I am getting the feeling that the lack of response is simply part of the bureaucratic process.  Knee jerk reaction - send out notifications ASAP (so as to limit the further dispersal of equipment) followed by sitting down to actually organise how the process will actually work.  Unprofessional? - maybe, but that makes a whole lot of sense to me.

My suggestion: Give them some time to sort themselves out and see what is said when they do.  In the mean time, just forget about them.  I'd also suggest not selling the item.  I get the feeling they may make it worth your while.

[Mrt12]

Hey Guys,

I just got the exact same letter for some network analyzer equipment I bought over one year ago.
This is silly, because the thing is from 1988.

Besides that, I do live in the EU, GDPR comes to my mind as well... but anyways, what was the solution to the problem? they ask me to confirm withdrawal of this device from the market. For sure it is withdrawn because it stays in my home lab? And besides that, how could I proof withdrawal of such things? (by the way, I bought the device as being "untested", and indeed, it was not working properly, so I repaired it.)

[langwadt]

Hey Guys,

I just got the exact same letter for some network analyzer equipment I bought over one year ago.
This is silly, because the thing is from 1988.

Besides that, I do live in the EU, GDPR comes to my mind as well... but anyways, what was the solution to the problem? they ask me to confirm withdrawal of this device from the market. For sure it is withdrawn because it stays in my home lab? And besides that, how could I proof withdrawal of such things? (by the way, I bought the device as being "untested", and indeed, it was not working properly, so I repaired it.)

it is yours, they have no right to ask for anything. if they want it off the market they'll have to buy it

[sokoloff]

but anyways, what was the solution to the problem? they ask me to confirm withdrawal of this device from the market. For sure it is withdrawn because it stays in my home lab? And besides that, how could I proof withdrawal of such things? (by the way, I bought the device as being "untested", and indeed, it was not working properly, so I repaired it.)

If you have a device that you are able to sell and Keysight expects you to agree not to sell it, they can either pay you a sum of money to agree to not sell it or they can buy it from you. The fact that you don't currently intend to sell it is largely irrelevant; they're asking you to give up your option to sell it at some point in the future and convincing you into giving up that option is going to cost money.

[MadTux]

And sure, I got a silly letter as well.
An old HP-3335A, even older than 1988 and not so well maintained as well.
And if it's only about reselling, no problem btw, that thing will stay at me forever and I certainly won't trade it in.

[Brumby]

Hey Guys,

I just got the exact same letter for some network analyzer equipment I bought over one year ago.
This is silly, because the thing is from 1988.

Yes, it may seem silly - but we have all figured out that there must have been some equipment that was not meant to be sold and that this is a recovery campaign to try and get it back.  The reason - bureaucracy.  We are guessing (with high confidence) that it is simply a clause in a contract that governed the end of life of this equipment.

Besides that, I do live in the EU, GDPR comes to my mind as well... but anyways, what was the solution to the problem? they ask me to confirm withdrawal of this device from the market.

This is first contact.  They just want to make sure they don't have to chase it any further.  Nothing more.

For sure it is withdrawn because it stays in my home lab? And besides that, how could I proof withdrawal of such things? (by the way, I bought the device as being "untested", and indeed, it was not working properly, so I repaired it.)

Just reply and tell them exactly that.  Then wait for further communications.

We are guessing this might take a few weeks, since the first contact was probably a rush job to try and minimise the time where gear could be sold on - and that the organisation of what happens next is still being sorted out.

From what has been said, it would seem participating in this campaign is going to be worth your time.  Our best guess is there might be some exchange of equipment and/or possibly some cash consideration ... but our guessing suggests the value of the item won't be what you paid for it - but will represent it's current condition - so if you've repaired it, then its value will be consistent with a functional device, not what you paid.

As I said, these are just guesses since there haven't been any formal offers made that we know of - but it fits the 'vibe' that these letters have presented.

Some members have expressed their intention to "dig their heels in" and/or misdirect the campaign operators.  Whether this is from fear of losing out or just "sticking it to the man", I think doing so would result in them missing out.


My suggestion is: Let them know, hang on to the gear - and wait for further contact.

[Brumby]

And sure, I got a silly letter as well.
An old HP-3335A, even older than 1988 and not so well maintained as well.
And if it's only about reselling, no problem btw, that thing will stay at me forever and I certainly won't trade it in.

Yep - I can see how you feel about the situation being silly - but, as I said above, it's going to be because of some bureaucratic bungle where a certain box HAS to be ticked. 

Bureaucracy has no bounds when it comes to silliness.

I am fairly certain you will get further communication and that it will lead to an offer which will probably be appealing.  Somebody has goofed - not you - but you might want to see what they bring to the table...