Author Topic: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope  (Read 1596394 times)

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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1975 on: March 10, 2024, 04:56:46 am »
...Second thing: In Unix and Unix-like (Linux) systems, everything is a file...
learning that could take years...

i dont quite understand on which part it is located... is it in the red circle below? (there is no HW ver 8 in his photo)
That's the spot!  And it's verified on 8x2 vs 8x4 teardown photos.
soldering this could take minutes. the "golden spoonfeed" question now is... whats the combination photo for DHO900S? ;D (ps: learning to solder good could take years ;D)
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 
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Offline norbert.kiszka

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1976 on: March 10, 2024, 05:12:09 am »
...Second thing: In Unix and Unix-like (Linux) systems, everything is a file...
learning that could take years...

I dont get it why people when see two buttons instead of one, then they tell its complicated...

Everything is a file - three simple words. Thats it.

Wanna copy sd card image (file) into real card? Then copy it into another file which is equivalent of sd card - no need to use google to find some crazy software with malware included.

Wanna to turn off/on fan or change speed? Then You can read or write into a file. In same way now I can manage backlight leds (LCD) in my scope.

You want to write script and You need current ram informations like a total size? Then You can just read text file instead of googling for hours.

Everything is simple after You stop thinking the opposite.

More of that, in Linux there is a KISS acronym. Which stands for: Keep It Simple, Stupid. BTW. There is no more complicated system like Windows - this is very good for people which they have definitely too much time.

soldering this could take minutes. the "golden spoonfeed" question now is... whats the combination photo for DHO900S? ;D (ps: learning to solder good could take years ;D)

Research took me about one hour. How long You done research with resistors? Weeks?

After that research being done, I can change this number in 10-15 seconds. What is Your time with playing with resistors?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2024, 05:18:16 am by norbert.kiszka »
 
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Offline AceyTech

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1977 on: March 10, 2024, 06:00:13 am »
I have a crazy idea of trying those "phase change thermal pads", but need to know what size to order...

Perfect, thanks a lot. Data recorded!

...no I haven't opened it since I added the external 120mm fan. Not gonna fix what ain't broke, for the time being, as I've got other stuff at the moment to satisfy my potentially destructive curiosity :)

@Shapirus
BTW:  It's probably obvious, but if it were me, I would order several 20mm2 and cut some into 10's.  but more importantly, I would try to source slightly thicker pads so they can accommodate the variations across that heatsink.  I'm sure the pads have a spec for how much they can tolerate a little compression.

Last little thing: You might want to check to see if they can be removed/reassembled.  The ones I used last weren't re-workable, and had to "burn-in" for a period after installation, but were incredibly efficient once set up.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2024, 10:39:46 am by AceyTech »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1978 on: March 10, 2024, 07:32:43 am »
I dont get it why people when see two buttons instead of one, then they tell its complicated...
Everything is a file - three simple words. Thats it.
after reading your posts carefully i come to the realization that your technique is indeed the simplest one without opening up my scope again. i was very distracted lately, sorry... but there are still few things left to ask, i guess it should not take long anymore it should be this close...
1) where do i need to save those script you provided above? what file name?
2) and then using adb tool in which folder in the scope do i need to push it?
3) which line do i have to edit to get HW version number 8?
thanks for your persistent tips and helps..
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1979 on: March 10, 2024, 10:12:29 am »
Seems that you and S2084 are working similar paths.  From earlier today.  Check out the full size pic.
 

Regarding bringing the HW version into line with the 900 model (HW V 8), some time ago I did some work to select the location of the configuration resistors on the back side of the board, but unfortunately I could not find the combination I needed, I attach a photo of the options I tested.  in the left column is a combination, in the right column is the HW version shown in the scope shell.  I have to wait until someone shows me a photo of the back of the 900 series board.....
here is the complete list... resistors are 10Kohm... R1 and R2 (from left to right) are parallel, installing them will be 5Kohm, same thing with R3, R4 (rightmost)
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 
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Offline S2084

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1980 on: March 10, 2024, 11:50:51 am »
Thanks dude.... I only had enough for a few combinations.... Then I gave up... :)

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1981 on: March 10, 2024, 11:56:30 am »
Thanks dude.... I only had enough for a few combinations.... Then I gave up... :)
yeah what a disappointment i dont want others into the same trap, hence i post. it seems there is other place for combination to get HW 8, lets wait photo donor from dho900 owner, i also just finished browsing this 80 pages thread to look for HW mod in case i missed, but not much news... so for now, life goes on.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 
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Offline AndyBig

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1982 on: March 10, 2024, 12:02:12 pm »
here is the complete list... resistors are 10Kohm... R1 and R2 (from left to right) are parallel, installing them will be 5Kohm, same thing with R3, R4 (rightmost)
Could it be that for other versions of HW it is necessary to solder in resistors with other values?
 

Offline S2084

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1983 on: March 10, 2024, 12:09:32 pm »
I think this is extremely unlikely...

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1984 on: March 10, 2024, 12:14:14 pm »
here is the complete list... resistors are 10Kohm... R1 and R2 (from left to right) are parallel, installing them will be 5Kohm, same thing with R3, R4 (rightmost)
Could it be that for other versions of HW it is necessary to solder in resistors with other values?
yes possibly, but what value? 20K? 30K? and at which positions? multiplying 2 probabilities can end up in thousands of possible combinations. me give up... maybe i'll look into the combination above if any "rhythm" ring the bell.. such as 0001 (HW5) and 0010 (HW13) dont quite add up (short dash derived by S2084 long dash derived by me), since the least 2 bits (and also the most 2 bits on the left) seem to be in parallel when measured with DMM, maybe next time to investigate when i'm fresh again.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline AceyTech

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1985 on: March 10, 2024, 12:17:44 pm »
Thanks dude.... I only had enough for a few combinations.... Then I gave up... :)
yeah what a disappointment i dont want others into the same trap, hence i post. it seems there is other place for combination to get HW 8, lets wait photo donor from dho900 owner, i also just finished browsing this 80 pages thread to look for HW mod in case i missed, but not much news... so for now, life goes on.

Don't forget the 80 pages of the Unboxing & teardown thread while you're at it.   :o
 
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Offline AndyBig

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1986 on: March 10, 2024, 12:28:20 pm »
I think this is extremely unlikely...
I don't see any point in making parallel resistors for digital signals. This means that most likely these resistors give the processor not just 0 or 1, but a voltage level that changes depending on whether one resistor is installed or both are installed in parallel places.
On the other hand, according to Mechatrommer, installing one R1 and one R2 gives different versions of HW, which also makes no sense if they are paralleled. In general, it’s not clear yet :)
 

Offline shapirus

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1987 on: March 10, 2024, 12:30:17 pm »
BTW:  It's probably obvious, but if it were me, I would order several 20mm2 and cut some into 10's.  but more importantly, I would try to source slightly thicker pads so they can accommodate the variations across that heatsink.  I'm sure the pads have a spec for how much they can tolerate a little compression.
The thing about the phase change pads (as opposed to the regular silicone pads), as far as I understand, is that they become very soft when heated, like tar or bubble gum, which allows them to take the shape of the surfaces that they sit between, and fill all the gaps and irregularities, and if the heatsink mounts are spring-loaded, then the pads will not stop it (or at least will resist much less) from moving towards the chips as far as the springs are able to push it, eventually achieving the lowest thermal resistance possible. That's why getting them in a little thicker size than required should make sense -- the unnecessary thickness will be squeezed out, if, of course, the respective chips will get hot enough (which may not be the case actually). And of course it makes sense to grab, if available, one big single sheet and just cut whatever sizes are needed from it.

They're pricey though. But who cares about the price when it comes to hobby, experimenting and learning.

Last little thing: You might want to check to see if they can be removed/reassembled. The ones I used last weren't re-workable, and had to "burn-in" for a period after installation, but were incredibly efficient once set up.
I'm pretty sure the phase change pads are single use only, at least this is kind of obvious for what they are. I haven't researched the fine details yet, though.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2024, 12:33:03 pm by shapirus »
 
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1988 on: March 10, 2024, 12:51:44 pm »
Don't forget the 80 pages of the Unboxing & teardown thread while you're at it.   :o
did that quckly just looking for photos... not much development as well past the separation of this thread from there.. the most prominent contributions are from chinese members azuka, souldevelop, hubertyoung etc on early pages.

On the other hand, according to Mechatrommer, installing one R1 and one R2 gives different versions of HW, which also makes no sense if they are paralleled. In general, it’s not clear yet :)
when only R1 installed, i measured resistance across it 10Kohm, when R2 installed, i measured 4-5Kohm across either one of them, so i assumed they are paralleled, but i didnt check how the traces are connected they are too small and faint to see. i measured lose resistor is 10Kohm. fwiw...
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 
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Offline AndyBig

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1989 on: March 10, 2024, 12:56:44 pm »
when only R1 installed, i measured resistance across it 10Kohm, when R2 installed, i measured 4-5Kohm across either one of them, so i assumed they are paralleled, but i didnt check how the traces are connected they are too small and faint to see. i measured lose resistor is 10Kohm. fwiw...
I’m really itching to disassemble the oscilloscope and study these resistors under a microscope, to solve this riddle :) As soon as I have some free time, I’ll do it.
 

Offline norbert.kiszka

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1990 on: March 10, 2024, 02:58:36 pm »
(ps: learning to solder good could take years ;D)

In previous year I learned one woman to solder both THT and SMD properly in about 2-3 hours - including unpacking my toys (soldering station and other things) and packing it back. After that, she fixed her expensive SMD mounted LED strips by herself. Personally I was learned by her mother, when I was couple years old. Being patient is the key.

I dont get it why people when see two buttons instead of one, then they tell its complicated...
Everything is a file - three simple words. Thats it.
after reading your posts carefully i come to the realization that your technique is indeed the simplest one without opening up my scope again. i was very distracted lately, sorry... but there are still few things left to ask, i guess it should not take long anymore it should be this close...
1) where do i need to save those script you provided above? what file name?
2) and then using adb tool in which folder in the scope do i need to push it?
3) which line do i have to edit to get HW version number 8?
thanks for your persistent tips and helps..

Do You need some magic rule again? There is no rules here. At least Im not too much familiar with Android and I cant tell about any rules in Android. There are already existing scripts from Rigol - at least one of them is executed before starting app process, and You need to disable loading module hdcode_gpio.ko (to prevent from creating one file I was talking earlier) in one of those scripts - so guess where will be the best and easiest place for this?

Do I need to tell such simple things? Its like painting a picture - its Your choice in which part of canvas/paper You will begin. Same here - if its not working as You wanted, then grab another paper... Most mistakes in scripts (in exception of changing supply voltages) can be reverted in matter of seconds. Overheating PCB and damaging very small SMD components not very likely - some years ago I was making money from fixing laptops, and I made many mistakes already (most of them was caused by being lazy).

Also, what particular way You chose to edit script is Your chose. Again I suggest to do everything on Linux (chose Debian), because You have simple and in same time very powerful tools like a bash (sometimes very big magic can be done via putting one char in some command - saving hours of Your time).

(ps: learning to solder good could take years ;D)

In previous year I learned one woman to solder both THT and SMD properly in about 2-3 hours - including unpacking my toys (soldering station and other things) and packing it back. After that, she fixed her expensive SMD mounted LED strips by herself. Personally I was learned by her mother, when I was couple years old. Being patient is the key.

3) which line do i have to edit to get HW version number 8?

Really? Its already in that mine earlier post. You need just one byte. Create one-byte length file. Thats all the magic. How You will do it, is Your choice. Theoretically nothing should delete this file, but who knows? Even if, thats no problem. Mine scope (924S) works with full bandwidth without this file (displayed HW is 0) so maybe there is no point to create this file at all?

BTW... maybe there is a point to dynamically create this file by a user choice. This scope originally has to offer only two bandwidth settings - full and 20 MHz. Displayed HW number is from app start (later changing doesnt do anything - at least as I checked it once), but according to strace output, this is being read many times later (by opening and closing file descriptor). I will check this later - If I forget, please remind me.

here is the complete list... resistors are 10Kohm... R1 and R2 (from left to right) are parallel, installing them will be 5Kohm, same thing with R3, R4 (rightmost)

Earlier I told here to measure those resistors. Everybody else assumed those are 0 Ω resistors... I wasnt complaining, but watching everybody destroying their scopes. Next time dont assume anything, especially when somebody tells You opposite. Using multimeter can take couple seconds and can save expensive&precise equipment and save many hours of unnecessary work.

Somebody did a measurement of its values?

That was week ago, and everybody was too lazy to check this with multimeter. Being lazy is a good thing. Being too much lazy, not so much. Now I dont see any point to make any play with this resistors anymore. Leave as it is and use my "complicated" hack - instead of unnecessary heating PCB and damaging it.

I think this is extremely unlikely...
I don't see any point in making parallel resistors for digital signals. This means that most likely these resistors give the processor not just 0 or 1, but a voltage level that changes depending on whether one resistor is installed or both are installed in parallel places.
On the other hand, according to Mechatrommer, installing one R1 and one R2 gives different versions of HW, which also makes no sense if they are paralleled. In general, it’s not clear yet :)

I see many points. Same amount of resistors, but less CPU pins used. This is not a place of communication or any other signal. Booting 1 ms slower is nothing. Again, this is another reason, to use multimeter before soldering in blind like a 6-year old kids. Using voltmeter is also useful   :-DMM

I’m really itching to disassemble the oscilloscope and study these resistors under a microscope, to solve this riddle :)

Thats why I decided to use photo of microsope as a default wallpaper in my "orangerigol", which I will push to github later.

Speaking of solving a riddle... Again You are doing very unnecessary job, as I told earlier. Here is probably best example of solving riddles in easiest possible way:


Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1991 on: March 10, 2024, 03:31:10 pm »
here is the complete list... resistors are 10Kohm... R1 and R2 (from left to right) are parallel, installing them will be 5Kohm, same thing with R3, R4 (rightmost)
Earlier I told here to measure those resistors. Everybody else assumed those are 0 Ω resistors... I wasnt complaining, but watching everybody destroying their scopes. Next time dont assume anything, especially when somebody tells You opposite. Using multimeter can take couple seconds and can save expensive&precise equipment and save many hours of unnecessary work.
Somebody did a measurement of its values?
i measured the value since S2084's report doesnt look like simple logic 0-1 nor binary value... so since at it, i tried to gather as much information, but i was trying to being quick just to get the HW version, i was not aware the discussion was about hacking 2CH to 4CH scope. anyway, dont sounds like you being ignored, i learnt long enough to expect nothing when being ignored, its probably their loss, not mine. or probably its beyond their comprehension, or they are too "immersed" on the things they are already familiar with, thats the quickest route to their or my belief. just a piece of advice, if you want to help, try to be as clear and as simplest as you can, because not everybody is talented enough in your area. if they see its fruitfull then interest will comes in. this is how we learn, we have to start from something simple. (ps: btw why orangerigol? why dont orangetightshort? as in your linked video? that probably will give much more attention ;D) cheers.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline S2084

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1992 on: March 10, 2024, 04:29:14 pm »
In the meantime, my LA connector seems to have acquired its final form... :) :) :)
 
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Offline norbert.kiszka

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1993 on: March 10, 2024, 04:43:36 pm »
(ps: btw why orangerigol? why dont orangetightshort? as in your linked video? that probably will give much more attention ;D) cheers.

Because it is (heavily) modified build from OrangePi. One of many modification is latest version of Debian (much much newer and nicer software). That was my first thought to give it a name.

Offline norbert.kiszka

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1994 on: March 10, 2024, 04:54:25 pm »
Quote
Can You say: Cocaina?

Now I need vendor.bin and Key.data from DHO1000 and some other files. I cant find it.

Of course I didnt change FPGA and binary from 900. To being sure it wasnt changed, I reflashed it with /rigol/FPGA/BOOT.bin

So looks like communication between app and FPGA is different. @AndyBig You are probably good with Scali - can You do some investigation?

Offline AndyBig

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1995 on: March 10, 2024, 06:39:51 pm »
@AndyBig You are probably good with Scali - can You do some investigation?
I don't even know what Scali is :)
All communication between the application and the FPGA goes through the libscope-auklet.so library. Well, more precisely, it’s not even a connection with the FPGA; the application doesn’t know anything about the FPGA at all. The application simply broadcasts user actions to libscope-auklet.so and receives results from it.
 
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Offline norbert.kiszka

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1996 on: March 10, 2024, 06:44:27 pm »
@AndyBig You are probably good with Scali - can You do some investigation?
I don't even know what Scali is :)
All communication between the application and the FPGA goes through the libscope-auklet.so library. Well, more precisely, it’s not even a connection with the FPGA; the application doesn’t know anything about the FPGA at all. The application simply broadcasts user actions to libscope-auklet.so and receives results from it.

I already tried to change libscope-auklet.so back to original and app from DHO1000 crashes at start. Maybe somebody can decompile merge this two different libs to make it work? Yeah, I know how it sounds.

Offline norbert.kiszka

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1997 on: March 10, 2024, 07:01:09 pm »
I think I have found something useful.

Code: [Select]
rk3399_rigol:/ # cat /rigol/resource/conf/version.txt                                                                                                                                       
0x0@SPU_H12S4.bit
0x4@SPU_H12S4B.bit
0x2@SPU_H12S2B.bit
0x3@SPU_H12S2.bit
0x1@SPU_H12S2.bit
0x9@SPU_H12S2B.bit
rk3399_rigol:/ #

Offline AndyBig

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1998 on: March 10, 2024, 07:36:49 pm »
I already tried to change libscope-auklet.so back to original and app from DHO1000 crashes at start.
This is a completely expected result.

Maybe somebody can decompile merge this two different libs to make it work? Yeah, I know how it sounds.
Well, if you understand how it sounds, then you understand what the answer to your question is :)
 

Offline alank2

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Re: Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope
« Reply #1999 on: March 10, 2024, 07:50:11 pm »
SO at this point on the DHO804, what is the best method to increase its bandwidth/memory depth?  I saw a method early on in the thread that had a youtube video showing it, but then I saw something about a firmware update that may have invalidated that method?  I'm thinking about ordering on of these so I want to get the low down on the latest method that it solid.  It sounds like in the DHO8 series that the 804 is the one.
 


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