Hacking the Rigol DHO800/900 Scope

[maxspb69]

If you need to decode short packets in real time, then the LA in the scope is more useful than any external LA. External standalone LA have limited capabilities in real-time cyclic capture with continuous display on the screen. Еvery task has its own means 

[zelea2]

+1 for DreamSourceLab gear.  Their UI and software design is top notch.

To be fair it's not their software, it's based on sigrok, they have only added a skin.
The good part is that it's open source and you can modify it to suit your needs
(but it takes 20min to compile).

From what I've disassembled I think the answer is no but I might be wrong.

That's what I thought.

Since there is no separate "CAN" license one possibility is that it is covered by one of the three COMP/EMBD/AUTO licenses.
These are available for every 800/900 scope. I will let you guys experiment with those because I don't know what they enable.

One thing that I couldn't figure out is what are the default bundle options for each series and that's something I looked long time for but it's well hidden in that C++ code.

It's the RS232/SPI/I2C decoders.

Actually "bundle" covers all supported options for a scope series.
There is a function called CApiLicense::activeOpt which enables the bundle then deletes all the extra available options.
These options are later re-enabled only if a valid coresponding .lic file is found.

[S2084]

So guys the chips are installed, I filmed the whole process

https://youtu.be/tC4oR421hfM

https://youtu.be/HyH9DJBt6K0

[Aleksandr]

So guys the chips are installed, I filmed the whole process

https://youtu.be/tC4oR421hfM

https://youtu.be/HyH9DJBt6K0

Amazing! What is the result?

[S2084]

The result is still completely unclear to me... I’ll be testing this weekend...

[AceyTech]

+1 for DreamSourceLab gear.  Their UI and software design is top notch.

To be fair it's not their software, it's based on sigrok, they have only added a skin.
The good part is that it's open source and you can modify it to suit your needs
(but it takes 20min to compile).

Since there is no separate "CAN" license one possibility is that it is covered by one of the three COMP/EMBD/AUTO licenses.
These are available for every 800/900 scope. I will let you guys experiment with those because I don't know what they enable.

Yeah, I misworded that UI comment.  I know they're Sigrok based, but I thought they added more than just a skin.  Still, it's better than stock., it's much more intuitive than most., and (at least in their scope UI(DSView)) it's really nice.

On your "CAN" license topic: Wouldn't it make sense if AUTOmobile was for "CAN"?

[AceyTech]

So guys the chips are installed, I filmed the whole process

https://youtu.be/tC4oR421hfM

https://youtu.be/HyH9DJBt6K0

Very Nice!  Watching the vidz now. Can't wait to see if it makes a difference.  Thanks for pioneering the effort!
Nice PCB ruler BTW, I have the set! 

[Randy222]

@S2084
Seemed like a long time to be under the heat.
To keep SMD's from swimming away, use a small weighted arm to hold the chips in place, this way you don't need to fork them around while at same time heating.
But, that's just my 2cents, you look like you have done hot-air before. The last time I did it was soldering some very small SO8 to a converter pcb (smd to dip). I was afraid of cooking the chip with direct heat, so I placed small shield over the body.

Nice rework, waiting for results.

[maxspb69]

The result is still completely unclear to me... I’ll be testing this weekend...

I can’t believe that Rigol install  two additional memory chips in the DHO900 just to confuse everyone

Has anyone checked on DHO800 with a replaced vendor.bin  to DHO900, does the 50M and LA  work correctly?  It’s one thing just enable it in the options, it’s quite another thing for all functions to work correctly.

[S2084]

I'm sorry, it's hard to shoot on the video..... I did it with a soldering hair dryer just because I wanted to capture the process on video.... The board was preheated to 150°C. This is usually done at the soldering station, there are no problems with landing BGA chips ....

[AceyTech]

I'm sorry, it's hard to shoot on the video..... I did it with a soldering hair dryer just because I wanted to capture the process on video.... The board was preheated to 150°C. This is usually done at the soldering station, there are no problems with landing BGA chips ....

Nah, you're totally fine.  I think hot air rework "iron" is the way most of us would install their BGA's, and it looks like you were roughly 2 minutes per IC, which is pretty close to a typical reflow time. 
Plus, If you ever watch what some of the kids do to their RROD XBOX's, you were much nicer to the chips and PCBa.

FYI @Randy222  it's not advisable to push down on an IC during reflow.  You want the IC to "seat itself", which is what happens when the solder flows just right.  If you look real close, they move around left/right and rotation during the process.  Let the thermodynamics do it's thing!

[Randy222]

I'm sorry, it's hard to shoot on the video..... I did it with a soldering hair dryer just because I wanted to capture the process on video.... The board was preheated to 150°C. This is usually done at the soldering station, there are no problems with landing BGA chips ....

Nah, you're totally fine.  I think hot air rework "iron" is the way most of us would install their BGA's, and it looks like you were roughly 2 minutes per IC, which is pretty close to a typical reflow time. 
Plus, If you ever watch what some of the kids do to their RROD XBOX's, you were much nicer to the chips and PCBa.

FYI @Randy222  it's not advisable to push down on an IC during reflow.  You want the IC to "seat itself", which is what happens when the solder flows just right.  If you look real close, they move around left/right and rotation during the process.  Let the thermodynamics do it's thing!

I no re-work hot air expert. But I have used an arm just like this one, with "great success" on everything I hand solder or hot air.
You can weight it llight or heavy, just move the weight. http://vpapanik.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-smd-beak.html
I have seen many SMD all crooked due to swimming.

But anyways, back to the results.

[Veteran68]

I've done my share of hot-air work, but have watched like HUNDREDS of hours of others doing it (my daily entertainment is not TV, but rather watching electronics assembly & repair videos). I have never once seen or heard of someone using an "arm" like that. Doesn't look necessary at all to me.

You typically use tweezers to position and hold the component down until the solder gets near the melting point and becomes tacky, the component then "sticks" and you remove the tweezers as the solder melts and the component settles into place as was mentioned. If you're dislodging or blowing away random components your airflow is probably too high, you're holding the heat there for far too long, and/or you're blowing at a low angle to the board. The most common way to dislodge a nearby component is to bump it while its solder is soft/liquid. Typically the capillary action is enough to hold it in place if you just don't touch it.

Another common beginner mistake with hot air is fearing too much heat, so you turn the temp down but then hold it far too long to get the job done. With few exceptions it's typically better to use higher heat for a shorter time. With practice you learn to manage the right balance of temp+airflow+time. It's all in the technique.

[Mechatrommer]

I no re-work hot air expert. But I have used an arm just like this one, with "great success" on everything I hand solder or hot air.
You can weight it llight or heavy, just move the weight. http://vpapanik.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-smd-beak.html
I have seen many SMD all crooked due to swimming.

I've done my share of hot-air work, but have watched like HUNDREDS of hours of others doing it (my daily entertainment is not TV, but rather watching electronics assembly & repair videos). I have never once seen or heard of someone using an "arm" like that. Doesn't look necessary at all to me.

the risk of bga short underneath due to "weight stampede" is proportional to the weight used / force exerted.. btw how S2084 ensure all bga pins are properly reballed/connected or without short is not demonstrated. perharps i'll do the whole board preheat and "hair dryer" reflow (surprisingly looks similar to mine ) as a last resort when LA section of OS confirmed that the unpopulated ram is really necessary for the LA operation. AND if i desperate enough on the functionality putting aside the risk involved. over preheat it and the FPGA dropped, consider the DSO is gone.

[S2084]

Of course, I first checked the voltage drop in diode continuity mode at the terminals of the transition resistors, and it was the same as those near the factory memory chip.... That's all for now...

[AceyTech]

the risk of bga short underneath due to "weight stampede" is proportional to the weight used / force exerted.. btw how S2084 ensure all bga pins are properly reballed/connected or without short is not demonstrated. perharps i'll do the whole board preheat and "hair dryer" reflow (surprisingly looks similar to mine ) as a last resort when LA section of OS confirmed that the unpopulated ram is really necessary for the LA operation. AND if i desperate enough on the functionality putting aside the risk involved. over preheat it and the FPGA dropped, consider the DSO is gone.

I was going to ask @S2084 about screening solder paste etc., but then I realized Rigol screened the paste, then reflowed the PCBa without populating those ICs. 
So, for anyone thinking to do this:  There is already the perfect amount of solder on the pads.  Just need flux and hot air to complete the job.

[ebastler]

I no re-work hot air expert. But I have used an arm just like this one, with "great success" on everything I hand solder or hot air.
You can weight it llight or heavy, just move the weight. http://vpapanik.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-smd-beak.html
I have seen many SMD all crooked due to swimming.

The weighted arm shown on that page is meant to be used with hand soldering (with a conventional iron and a spool of solder). The author mentions that he has neither a stencil nor a paste dispenser, and uses the arm since he needs a "third hand". Of course, when hand-soldering that way, there is no harm in "forcing" the position of the SMD component.

(I never found the need for a third hand however. I prefer to tin one pad first, then position the component with tweezers while re-heating the pad, then properly solder the other pad(s) and touch up the first one. -- None of this applies to BGAs and the Rigol upgrade discussed here, of course...)

[Fungus]

Has anyone checked on DHO800 with a replaced vendor.bin  to DHO900, does the 50M and LA  work correctly?

50M definitely works.

[maxspb69]

Has anyone checked on DHO800 with a replaced vendor.bin  to DHO900, does the 50M and LA  work correctly?

50M definitely works.

How did you determine this? Methodology?

[Fungus]

How did you determine this? Methodology?

Everybody reading this has thread has enabled it and been using it for months.

[AndyBig]

How did you determine this? Methodology?

Everybody reading this has thread has enabled it and been using it for months.

I think that means 50M with simultaneous operation of analogue channels and LA.

[gabiz_ro]

@S2084
From what I found after a quick search
DHO924 use GDP2BFLM-CA  DDR3(L)  4Gb
but you use
H5TQ2G63FFR-PBC DDR3 2Gb

[Fungus]

I think that means 50M with simultaneous operation of analogue channels and aircraft.

I don't know what aircraft you're referring to but I can do this:

[Mechatrommer]

How did you determine this? Methodology?

Everybody reading this has thread has enabled it and been using it for months.

I think that means 50M with simultaneous operation of analogue channels and LA.

it has been tested 50M (single or divided among analog channels) are real (i can download data to PC) but when using LA GUI activated, memory will get divided to 25Mpts for 1CH analog (i only tested 1CH + LA) i can try find API to download the 25Mpts LA data to PC but i want to make sure i'm not downloading random data, so i need LA probe and probe something meaningful to prove what i'm downloading is real and i do the test in one go. so until then (when i have a LA probe)

[AndyBig]

I don't know what aircraft you're referring to but I can do this:

The plane is again a Google translation misunderstanding ) I meant the logic analyzer.
I think the question was whether the available memory depth of the 50M oscilloscope would be preserved when the analog channel and logic analyzer were turned on simultaneously. Perhaps the additional memory chips are dedicated memory for the analyzer, so as not to share it with analog channels. In your screenshot the memory depth is only 10M.