European used testequipment for "beginners"?

[TheUnnamedNewbie]

Hi guys,
I want to try and set up my own lab at home. I was hoping on getting some basic test equipment (a second multimeter, preferably bench, and some powersupplies... Maybe a simple sig-gen or synth), and then start buying broken stuff to try and fix as projects.
Main problem is that it seems that all the good used gear is over in the US, and the shipping is just insane (often being as expensive as the actual product, with 100-200 dollar shipping costs being common). As a student, it makes it very hard for me to get stuff.
Does anyone here have some suggestions for europe-based resellers of used gear? I've found a few selling used HP and similar, but usually they charge twice what the US resellers cost.

Am I doing a bad job looking, or do I just have to accept the fact that it's going to be a lot more expensive for me to get used gear? (I think I'd rather just go with a new Rigol bench Multimeter and/or powersupply instead of paying 75% of their price for a 30 year old HP unit...)

[ebclr]

You have many options in Europe

http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1052E.html

www.picotech.com


It's a little more expensive, but you and  fly a weekend to the USA, if you want

[TheUnnamedNewbie]

Perhaps my original post wasn't clear, but I'm looking for used testequipment. I'm fully aware there are many options of new gear that is reasonably priced (from Rigol, Siglent, ...) but I hoped I could get some "highend" gear cheaper used.

And flying to the US would cost me more than the shipping on many, many items. And then there is still the matter of me having to get it back into Belguim, which isn't evident either, especially not for powersupplies, which is the main thing I'm looking for

(And yes I can make my own, but I would also like a bought one. I don't yet have enought trust in my own capabilities to design and trust the performance of a powersupply I design and build myself)

[Berni]

Yes sadly you can't get deals as good as in the US.

But its not as bad as it might first look. Sometimes you can get a better shipping price by talking to the seller. Also when buying heavy things it often helps if the seller can ship via the so called "Global Shipping Program" where a ebays sister company hauls it to Europe and ships it via regular means from there (They also do customs for you).

But yeah its not uncommon that i payed more for shipping than the item is worth on some bargains i found, but the item was so cheap that it was worth it anyway.

[oldway]

You will find what you are looking for here:

http://stores.befr.ebay.be/Electronique-professionnel?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

[tszaboo]

Recently I've ordered a 12 Kg Power supply from ebay, the shipping from USA was 12 dollars (ebay global shipping program). The only thing I can think of, is that they simply rip you off on the shipping, or they dont even bother searching for cheaper shipping methods.
Otherwise, look for good deals. GW Instek power supply are a deal now, also their 5.5 digit multimeter.

[capt bullshot]

There are some used equipment sellers in Germany, some of them also acting as sellers on ebay.

Here are a few that I had good experience with
http://www.rosenkranz-elektronik.de/
http://helmut-singer.de/
http://messgeraete-markt.de/

Another well known one:
http://www.rainer-foertig.de/

In general, they sell checked and working equipment, the prices can be as much as double in comparison with ebay sellers (of equipment in unknown state). If you don't find what you're looking for in their online offers, it is often worth asking them what they could offer (or visiting their store personally)

[awallin]

http://www.rosenkranz-elektronik.de/
http://helmut-singer.de/
http://messgeraete-markt.de/
http://www.rainer-foertig.de/

http://www.instrumex.de/en/instrumex_home
(brand name stuff, not the cheapest...)

[jacklee]

You may try this one for the great value for money:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/debranded-micsig-handheld-scope-on-sale-on-ebay/
I see this few days ago, but I already had TO1104, so I can't sure if this one is good enough. I do also don't know if they still sell it, things like this one shouldn't be have much stock. You may ask them.

[nctnico]

Recently I've ordered a 12 Kg Power supply from ebay, the shipping from USA was 12 dollars (ebay global shipping program).

That must be a mistake. Shipping a piece of equipment from the US costs between $50 and $140 when using USPS depending on size and weight. There just isn't much used test equipment for sale in Europe for decent prices so even with shipping it costs less to buy equipment in the US (Ebay) than in Europe.

[Pinkus]

Also when buying heavy things it often helps if the seller can ship via the so called "Global Shipping Program" where a ebays sister company hauls it to Europe and ships it via regular means from there (They also do customs for you).

Are you serious?
Many of us will never purchase anything through the Ebay Global Shipping Program (this is a huge SCAM) and will ask the seller if they want to sell without the GSP. If they do not, we are avoiding the seller. Just google Ebay global shipping program scam and you will learn why.
A good variant would be to use a reshipper like www.shipito.com (there are many others).
Let the seller ship it to an US address of the reshipper and they will take care of everything else.

[daqq]

Try your local fleamarket, nearest hamfest - traditionally with an open air market, or your local equivalent of craigslist. You'd be surprised what kinds of scores you can find locally

Also, being in europe, the German and the UK ebay has a large test equipment listing.

[nctnico]

Also when buying heavy things it often helps if the seller can ship via the so called "Global Shipping Program" where a ebays sister company hauls it to Europe and ships it via regular means from there (They also do customs for you).

Are you serious?
Many of us will never purchase anything through the Ebay Global Shipping Program (this is a huge SCAM) and will ask the seller if they want to sell without the GSP. If they do not, we are avoiding the seller.

Are you nuts? The Ebay Global Shipping program works great and it is my favorite way of buying something from Ebay from the US. The shipping costs are lower, the processing tariffs are higher so all things considered it costs the same in the end compared to USPS + VAT & import duties. GSP is also extremely fast: a couple of days versus two weeks when using USPS.

[anotherlin]

For Europe, ebay.de or even ebay.fr has ton of used test equipment, and it is not much more expensive than ebay US.
Especially if you take into account shipping.

For even cheaper, you should check your local equivalent of "craiglist", in France, it's leboncoin.fr (they may ship to Belgium).
It's usually here that you can have the best deals. They're not professional sellers, sometimes just people that don't even know what they are selling.

As for global shipping of ebay.com, it does work very well and the prices are reasonnable, and all custom taxes are taken care of.
I've never had problem.
Of course, it can be cheaper going directly through USPS, but it's slower, and with some luck, the custom may not charge tax on the package.

[Berni]

Also when buying heavy things it often helps if the seller can ship via the so called "Global Shipping Program" where a ebays sister company hauls it to Europe and ships it via regular means from there (They also do customs for you).

Are you serious?
Many of us will never purchase anything through the Ebay Global Shipping Program (this is a huge SCAM) and will ask the seller if they want to sell without the GSP. If they do not, we are avoiding the seller. Just google Ebay global shipping program scam and you will learn why.
A good variant would be to use a reshipper like www.shipito.com (there are many others).
Let the seller ship it to an US address of the reshipper and they will take care of everything else.

Well in that case USPS ships to your country a lot cheaper than to Slovenia.

To give an example i bought a Gigatronix 6100 RF synthesizer that weighs 18.2kg by the datasheet so probably more like 20kg all packaged up. I used the global shipping program to get it here and it cost me $129.77. If i go to the USPS calculator it gives me at its cheapest $163.05, but since this is a huge rack mount instrument not only is one dimension bigger than the 30cm(12 inch) limit, but pretty much all dimensions are bigger that that once in a box. Giving them the box dimensions shoots the price up to $700 and alerts you that not all US post offices can even take a package this large.

On top of it global shipping program also does costums tax only on the item value without the cost of shipping included (Here most carriers are lazy assholes and charge it like that because its less paperwork for them) so i save some on that as well and i don't have to deal with the paperwork myself at all. They also take care of the export paperwork for the buyer (I hear export from the US can be complicated)

So i don't see why i wouldn't use it, its cheaper and less hassle than USPS.

[TheUnnamedNewbie]

Thanks all for the replies! Now I have somewhere to start.
I think I might just need to expand my list of brands too. I think I'm to familiar with some US brand names like Tek and HP, but should also keep an eye out for european brands like R&S and Hameg and such. Any other brands I should keep an eye out for? (Phillips?)

The french seller, http://stores.befr.ebay.be/Electronique-professionnel?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 , has a lot of stuff but the pictures always seem to be really old and crusty gear. It could be that they just do a poor job taking pictures, but it doesn't instill a lot of confidence... They also seem to sell a lot of powersupplies from the brand "Sodilec" but I've never heard of them before. Anyone who can say if they are/aren't  worth buying? I could just take a chance and try one...

About the suggestions for fleamarkets and such: I'm gonna start keeping an eye out for those. I've also contacted a few sellers and usually they can dramatically push down cost by selling multiple things in one go, but that requires me to first save some more money so I can buy more in one go.

[daqq]

About the suggestions for fleamarkets and such: I'm gonna start keeping an eye out for those.

In Europe I know of two major ones:

One in Germany: http://www.hamradio-friedrichshafen.de/ham-en/
One in the Czech Republic: http://www.ok1khl.com/view.php?cisloclanku=2017031802

Note that there are more of course 

[nctnico]

The french seller, http://stores.befr.ebay.be/Electronique-professionnel?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 , has a lot of stuff but the pictures always seem to be really old and crusty gear. It could be that they just do a poor job taking pictures, but it doesn't instill a lot of confidence...

Over the years I've bought a couple of things from them (their company name is IRSA) and got exactly what was described/pictured so don't worry.

[alm]

One thing to keep in mind with lesser known brands is the availability of documentation (both service and operations). Finding documentation is usually easy with HP/Agilent and Tektronix. For power supplies, Kepco and Lambda made some good products, and I have usually been able to find documentation for their stuff. Kepco has much of it on their website, and in the case of Lambda I have been able to receive the manual by sending them a nice e-mail.

If you require a linear bench power supply for fairly low power levels, then the Lambda LP-4xx series is often available for under €50. The corners are usually broken off, but this does not affect the functionality. Of course if you require a digital display and pristine front, you will pay extra for that.

There is also Artek Manuals for manuals that are hard to find or for which the freely available quality is low. You do pay a few $ for their scans, however.

Documentation for Philips and Hameg is usually also easy to find. No experience with R&S. Finding documentation for the lesser known brands like Sodilec can be tricky. Though operation instructions for a basic bench power supply or DMM might be quite terse anyway. It is up to you to consider the risk of repair and the complexity of repairing something without available schematics.

[rqsall]

About the suggestions for fleamarkets and such: I'm gonna start keeping an eye out for those. I've also contacted a few sellers and usually they can dramatically push down cost by selling multiple things in one go, but that requires me to first save some more money so I can buy more in one go.

Here's a list of fleamarkets for the year in Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany and France. (updated every year as long as I have known about it, about 3 years): http://www.on4lea.be/termine.htm

[guido]

Just a thumbs up for the ebay global shipping program..... Got a TM5003 from the states. Shipping cost was reasonable ($74 including import tax) and it was very fast (bought 9th, received today). My only complaint would be that they estimated arrival time was last days of may, beginning of June. But i did get tracking mails, where i was wondering if the last one was US customs or ours Turned out to be ours, next day it was here. No hassle with tax (unfortunately you have to pay this way).

Also a big thumbs up for the packaging by the seller (express_auctions). Big sturdy box with a lot of foam padding, even for this relatively low priced item (it's broken, it currently works as fuse destroyer). So overall a very good (first) experience with GPS.

Not too long ago i got a "TM503B" from a private seller in the US. He used parcel monkey. Cheaper, but no updates and very slow (took more than a week before it even started moving). But it got here in the end.

 

[james_s]

Recently I've ordered a 12 Kg Power supply from ebay, the shipping from USA was 12 dollars (ebay global shipping program). The only thing I can think of, is that they simply rip you off on the shipping, or they dont even bother searching for cheaper shipping methods.
Otherwise, look for good deals. GW Instek power supply are a deal now, also their 5.5 digit multimeter.

Ebay must have got a very good deal on that, there's no way an ordinary person could ship direct to Europe for $12. Even 10 years ago a power supply of that weight would have cost me $50 to ship over there, today it would probably cost $150. Overseas shipping has gotten VERY expensive, don't blame the sellers.

[Fungus]

Overseas shipping has gotten VERY expensive, don't blame the sellers.

Ahem. 

[markce]

For small stuff I've used helmut-singer.de. They are expensive, but what I got was excellent, like new. There is also a reseller in Belgium: http://www.woutersenwouters.be/
Most of my equipment is from local trading sites, I prefer to see it before buying. I was not very lucky with radio flea markets. Prices tend to be rather high, lots of commercial traders. But the hunt for equipment deals there has its charm....

[james_s]

Ok that's ridiculous, but what I meant is don't automatically blame the sellers if it costs $150 to ship a piece of gear to Europe because it really does cost that much if it's something bulky and/or heavy. For a manual that's just nuts, they could use media mail which is dirt cheap.