Digital oscilloscope as a film prop

[Wuerstchenhund]

I am both a novice with product placement understand and living in a country (UK), with a probably rare TV channel (still very popular), in the UK, called the BBC.

Funny, as I'm living on the same Island, and I'm very familiar with the special traits of its society.

They raise money by yearly TV licence fees (£145.50 / year), and absolutely BAN any kind of advertising on the channel. Absolutely no adverts, at all, ever (ignoring adverts for other BBC programs and charities, news items).
They have very strict rules, but I completely agree, that it might be relatively unique to us, who live in the UK.

Actually, that's not unique, it has been this way in many countries, and still is in some (i.e. German public television had no commerials, but that got relaxed later on to some extend).

But what you ignore here is that showing a product isn't necessarily advertising. Showing a real product in a fictional scene is fine (even in the UK, and yes, even for the BBC!) when the product is authentic in its environment. It only becomes advertisement if the product is placed there for the product's sake and not because of the story.

Your part about the BBC not permitted to produce commercials (it does advertise its own program, though) is irrelevant as even in BBC programs you'll see plenty of branded products in and out. And it would be silly if that wasn't the case.

[JPortici]

Some Films/TV programs, seem to cover/hide the brand names of things on purpose

I always imagined that worked like this:
a) Agent goes to (eg.) Apple asking for money for product placement in a movie.
b) Apple says "no".
c) Producer says "fine" and tapes over the logos just to annoy Apple, hoping they might pay next time around.

ie. It's not a legal issue, it's just people making money.

this happens with musical instruments too.
well.. only for keyboards actually.
you are a musician with some following that uses a 3-5k instrument -or several- on stage. you ask to be an endorses for X brand because you "advertise" for them in exchange for being paid to use or be given instruments for free.
Brand X says "no".
on every performance you farefully tape out the brand

This also applies for product placement bullshit: in tv shows every hint of a brand in instruments and amplifiers is taped on

[StuUK]

Maybe it's better to build prop oscilloscopes. Buy some broken/for parts oscilloscopes from eBay, and replace the screen. Install a screen connected to a Raspberry Pi or something, and just have them play a video of an oscilloscope screen or something like that.

It would make it reproducible

Definitely a sensible and cheap idea! In fact you could even use some of the buttons on the front to give the film director some options as to which wiggling lines pattern he/she prefers best.....

[MK14]

Can we move discussion of "Product Placement" somewhere else, please.

I agree, so I'm NOT replying to any more "Product placement" replies in this thread. If you want replies, please start a thread, and I can then reply.
But I am still guilty, as I seemed to start the discussion in the first place.
EDIT: Done, new thread is here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/product-placement-this-thread-was-made-to-save-another-thread-going-off-topic/

[Wuerstchenhund]

TV stations at least are usually fairly careful about showing brands (especially in the case of one Zenith PC case I supplied, they set it on fire)

Some manufacturers don't like their gear being seen in what they consider 'negative context', i.e. destruction scenes (real or fake). Others are more relaxed.

But, I digress, if I were supplying props I'd be considering 'scope front panels with a small TFT monitor fitted that displays whatever computer generated technical image the producer liked best.

Well, you could probably just buy a broken scope or even just a front panel on ebay and use that to build you some prop.

As someone else mentioned if real test gear is used then it's worth considering something with GPIB as I believe a lot of the Agilent 9and I would imagine many more) products will lock out front panel controls when under remote control. It should be possible to use something like the Arduino GPIB to lock up the controls

Most gear that can be remote controlled, no matter if GPIB or something else, can lock out the front panel, but there's usually a button or softkey which brings the scope out of "remote" mode back to "local" mode.

However, on a Windows scope (like the ones on the pictures I posted) you could just disable the port for the front panel in Device Manager. Also, they can be set to power on when they get connected to mains, so there's no hard mains switch required.

Can we move discussion of "Product Placement" somewhere else, please.

Fine by me, although this is actually very much related to the OP's question.

[Brumby]

... although this is actually very much related to the OP's question.

No, it's not.  The OP was clearly limiting their question to a technical issue as a prop master.


Certainly there are incidental aspects that could precipitate from such a topic - but they are a digression and do not help the OP on the issue presented.

[MK14]

... although this is actually very much related to the OP's question.

No, it's not.  The OP was clearly limiting their question to a technical issue as a prop master.

Certainly there are incidental aspects that could precipitate from such a topic - but they are a digression and do not help the OP on the issue presented.

I agree.
New product placement thread started, and I've put a reply in it, for Wuerstchenhund.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/product-placement-this-thread-was-made-to-save-another-thread-going-off-topic/

[Fred27]

Maybe it's better to build prop oscilloscopes. Buy some broken/for parts oscilloscopes from eBay, and replace the screen. Install a screen connected to a Raspberry Pi or something, and just have them play a video of an oscilloscope screen or something like that.

It would make it reproducible

This sounds like a great turnkey solution and just the sort of project that would appeal to many hobbyists. Anyone want to make one and sell it to the OP?

Another option might me a microcontroller that will output various interesting looking waveforms that work well with the "auto" button in mind.

[rstofer]

Regardless of which scope is shown with the label obscured, the experts in the field will be able to tell you the brand and probably date of manufacture.

Given that, I wonder if truly low end stuff is the way to go.  A Rigol DS1054Z?  In a lab?  Seriously?  Keysight, older Agilent, even older Tektronix analog scopes, sure.  1054Z?  Never going to happen.

Every decent movie has a car chase.  The make and model of the cars is pretty well known, even on an island.  In the US, there money changing hands.  Look at Hawaii 5-0 and all the Chevys.

[borjam]

You can also make a Frankenstein oscilloscope. Buy a cheap one (like a Rigol) or even one of those really bargain kits and fit it inside a more expensive looking oscilloscope case. Use the "auto" button and feed it some dialog audio if you want it to somewhat match (for example) the conversation being overheard by the guys in the Black Van™.

Absolute accuracy is not necessary (although Wuerstchenhund would suffer a stroke if a Rigol was placed in a particle physics setup instead of a proper LeCroy!) but don't do what I saw in a Spanish (by the way, disgusting) series: "El Barco". After months bragging about the accuracy of the props, the old sailship, etc, the captain called Mayday with a familiar piece of apparatus to all of us: a bench multimeter. You could even read "DIGITAL MULTIMETER" on it in case you hadn't already noticed! 

I forgot, if taking the route of the Raspberry Pi and screen module you don't even need to program. You can use a gnuplot or Mathematica (*) script to generate pretty waveforms.

(*) There's a free version of Mathematica bundled with the Raspberry Pi operating system, Raspbian, but you should check with Wolfram Research wether they would consider this "commercial use" or they really won't care as you are not really using the program for its purpose.

[Sid Nails]

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Firstly it needs to be stated that I'm just a lowly uncredited prop supplier. I don't get to make any decisions about product placement. That's entirely up to the production company bean counters and the like. Generally it's only applicable to big budget movies whereas our props must be suitable for everything from low budget TV programs through jokey adverts to mega budget movies.

I think it's unlikely that PP would ever be used for such technical gear anyway compared to the normal consumer tat such as phones, cars, cameras etc. Only about 5% or so of the audience may even know what an oscilloscope is and maybe only .01% would ever consider buying one during their lives. So the number who would see a film and straightaway come out thinking "must go and buy that amazing looking Tek scope" is therefore miniscule.

It's pretty much the norm for someone on set to check all the equipment and stick tape over every visible manufacturer's name they can find.

Yes I have to admit the Le Croy kit looks really beautiful but I haven't even bothered looking up the prices. The equipment has a hard life and those on the film set don't respect it at all so all that beauty would be scuffed and scraped after a few hires. Far too often when the set is struck they'll quickly throw everything into the box with the probes and other connectors still attached so they get snapped off or the BNC sockets are bent or worst of all, the attenuator knobs are sheered right off. I wish I could always be on set to assemble, instruct, supervise and dismantle everything myself but I wouldn't have the time and the producers are rarely prepared to budget for that extra expense.

I have already thought of TFT screens behind dummy front panels but it's a lot of work, particularly fiddly mechanical which is the bit I hate doing most. Also it would likely need doing in a different way for each bit of kit (reinventing the wheel) unless I was fortunate enough to acquire a job lot of identical scopes for a bargain price which is hard to do.

I'd also thought of a timer fitted across any soft switch but the idea of hacking into a brand new scope makes me whince a little and surely would void the warranty. I would though be prepared to do this as it's preferable to watching the film or program months later, seeing the blank scope screen & saying "Doh! They never even switched it on". Fascinating as all the PP discussion is, I have to point out that so far no one has replied with a definite yes/no as to whether the Hantex has a hard or soft switch. From the best photos I can find, it's looking suspiciously soft.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Regardless of which scope is shown with the label obscured, the experts in the field will be able to tell you the brand and probably date of manufacture.

Given that, I wonder if truly low end stuff is the way to go.  A Rigol DS1054Z?  In a lab?  Seriously?  Keysight, older Agilent, even older Tektronix analog scopes, sure.  1054Z?  Never going to happen.

THIS exactly! 

A low end scope simply doesn't look the part, and I doubt a cheapish looking (even for the average consumer) scope with tiny screen is cutting it unless the scene shows engineers being broke. And as rstofer says, to anyone who ever saw the inside of a real lab seeing a Hantek or Rigol in a scene depicting a professional lab is probably cringe-worthy at best.

If the budget is tight and sponsoring isn't an option for some reason then I'd scour the 2nd hand market for some old big brand digital scopes. A few hundred bucks can buy you a lot there, and unlike the Hantek/Rigol solution doesn't immediately scream "cheap"

The last option would be to just rent a proper looking scope from a lab or a rental provider.

[borjam]

I have already thought of TFT screens behind dummy front panels but it's a lot of work, particularly fiddly mechanical which is the bit I hate doing most. Also it would likely need doing in a different way for each bit of kit (reinventing the wheel) unless I was fortunate enough to acquire a job lot of identical scopes for a bargain price which is hard to do.

Here you have lots of sexy looking potential dummy front panels

(Search for lecroy for parts, for instance)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xlecroy+for+parts.TRS0&_nkw=lecroy+for+parts&_sacat=0

[Fungus]

From the best photos I can find, it's looking suspiciously soft.

I saw a youtube video where there was a definite click but that doesn't mean much. It might be an internal relay.

It certainly doesn't look as if the button goes in and stays in then pops out again when you switch it off.

You might be asking in the wrong place. Nobody around here would be seen dead with a Hantek.

[Muxr]

You could probably approach one of the scope makers and offer their scope a product placement too. I am sure some would love to have that kind of exposure. If the cost is an issue.

I was watching The Wire recently and noticed a lot of shots of spectrum analyzers.

[TAMHAN]

Well...my most important recommendation would be to stay away from modern units as they, um, look unimpressive. I would go either for a TEK TDSxxx or a LeCroy LC or 93 series unit - both can look pretty "nasty". Or, a DS-6121A...the futuristic front panel is fun.

As for the knob twiddlers: IMHO, the only way to solve this is GPIB remoting. I know that some older Iwatsu scopes go "puber" when taking GPIB commands, for example...

[MK14]

If it was me with this problem. I would probably buy a very cheap scope (99%+ of the audience would never notice it is out of place in a professional lab), brand new or a cheap one on ebay in clean condition, and shown to show pictures on the screen.

Then modify the soft on/off button, to switch on automatically, and try to create a simple button sequence or freq generator, to show something on the screen after it turns on.

E.g. Wire/cheap probe between probe cal and input(s), with soft turn on button and auto buttons, pressed via a 556 timer, on after 5 sec and autoset after 15 sec or something.

Or when buying an older (modern looking) cheap scope on ebay, find one with a physical/real on off button.

I can't see why you are bothered by losing the guarantee, because by the sound of it, it will get so roughly treated during filming and transportation etc, it will soon be in too bad a shape to easily claim under the guarantee.

Cheap ebay low frequency scopes, but made by quality manufacture's, may be more physically robust than cheap brand name ones. But I'm speculating here, and could be wrong.

Also steer clear of any with auto power off (but you might be able to disable it in the menus), which I have read about.

[Richard Crowley]

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of films and prime-time TV series that did NOT have cringe-worthy "set dressing" in any kind of scientific/technical scene.  Except, of course, for the ones actually shot on-location in a REAL laboratory, control-room, or whatever. Chemists likely have similar complaints to ours. I doubt very much that any of the "chemistry lab" scenes in typical productions has any practical resemblance to the real thing.

If I still lived in the LA area I would assemble a rental fleet of non-functional test gear which had been gutted but the front-panels preserved, and displays (CRTs, meters, lights) simulated with simple microcontrollers and LCD screens requiring zero manipulation from the production crew.  There are rental houses in that town who specialize in scientific gear for props and set dressing.  I have a 2 or 3 of old Tek scopes that would be prime candidates for turning into functional-looking props.

[N2IXK]

I'd second a used scope off of eBay or similar.  An old Tektronix 7000 series mainframe packed with plugins still looks "high tech" to most folks, and can be had for less than the shipping costs in some cases.

[tautech]

When I was contacted "out of the blue" by a set artist via my website for exactly the subject of this thread I provided a demo scope, in fact a SDS2304 that with its large colour display was just what they were looking for.
A couple of nice bright traces fed from the same sine wave from its internal AWG but not triggered properly and nicely scrolling across the display had them hooked. 

I would imagine most distributors like myself would also jump at the opportunity to have their "wares" on film: free advertising. 
Not only did I end up "hiring" a DSO to them but also all manner of "lab" props, component cabinets, PSU's, AWG's etc.
50 km round trip and it was a fair day's labor for my trouble.
Plus the chance to sit in on some of the filming, very interesting it was. 

And it was also when I first met our now somewhat famous forum member Dubbie (Rigol giveaway) 

[Zbig]

One thing I would keep in mind looking for a scope to be used as a film prop would be how its LCD screen interacts with video cameras' sensors. You wouldn't want any nasty flickering or other visual glitches resulting from scan techniques/frequencies of both messing with each other. Unless we're talking classic film cameras only, of course.

[tautech]

One thing I would keep in mind looking for a scope to be used as a film prop would be how its LCD screen interacts with video cameras' sensors. You wouldn't want any nasty flickering or other visual glitches resulting from scan techniques/frequencies of both messing with each other. Unless we're talking classic film cameras only, of course.

Good point but AFAIK mostly broadcast quality units are used these days. There were no such issues mentioned when I was involved on the set.

[andy2000]

Older Tektronix logic analyzers (like the TLA600 series) have big color screens and cost very little on ebay.  They run Windows, so you could simply remove the logic analyzer software and play a video of what ever graphics you need on a loop.  Since they're based on a normal PIII PC, there's an option in BIOS to have it power on automatically when AC power is restored.

Older Windows based scopes like the TDS5000 series would also work.  One that powers up, but fails the self test shouldn't cost too much.

[Fred27]

That sounds like the best suggestion yet, andy2000.

[Sid Nails]

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of films and prime-time TV series that did NOT have cringe-worthy "set dressing" in any kind of scientific/technical scene.  Except, of course, for the ones actually shot on-location in a REAL laboratory, control-room, or whatever. Chemists likely have similar complaints to ours. I doubt very much that any of the "chemistry lab" scenes in typical productions has any practical resemblance to the real thing.

If I still lived in the LA area I would assemble a rental fleet of non-functional test gear which had been gutted but the front-panels preserved, and displays (CRTs, meters, lights) simulated with simple microcontrollers and LCD screens requiring zero manipulation from the production crew.  There are rental houses in that town who specialize in scientific gear for props and set dressing.  I have a 2 or 3 of old Tek scopes that would be prime candidates for turning into functional-looking props.

This is just so true. I'm constantly cringing at the clueless arty person's idea of science & technology depicted in films. For the significant percentage of the population that does have a clue, this is downright insulting. Two production buyers were in recently choosing items for a modern electronics lab. So what did they initially choose? 1980s hi-fi separates  and a block of audio studio 19" panels containing CD players. I had to intervene & advise them on what else would be more realistic. At first they didn't appreciate me putting my oar in but I did manage to persuade them in the end. Once on set, I pushed their chosen items hopefully out of camera shot & brought my real world items to the front.

That said, some buyers did bring along a real industrial chemist to help them choose glassware for a drugs lab recently. Quite impressive and yet some hopelessly obsolete glassware was still chosen.