Author Topic: DE-5000 LCR Meter OEM?  (Read 55033 times)

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Offline mos6502

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2013, 07:38:21 pm »
Thanks for the thread guys, I was about to waste a load of cash on an Agilent U1733C. :-+

I bought the kit with the TL-21 and TL-22 from akibashipping for $118.90. The good thing is that this seller offers EMS shipping for $5 more. The last time I ordered something from Japan it took two months to arrive, so no more economy shipping for me.
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Offline icpart

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2013, 07:58:47 pm »
Hi guys I want to buy some LCR meter  but I can not choose which one to buy. One of these DE-500 from Japan or maybe MS5308? For me with import taxes and duties the final price will be the same. I can buy from my country MS5308 for about 115EUR with 1 year warranty. Just wondering which of these meters is better from yours perspective?
Actually I don't like MS5308 very much because it is a little bulky. So any advice would be useful for me.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 08:00:58 pm by icpart »
 

Offline chibiace

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2013, 08:17:06 pm »
 :bullshit:
Hi guys I want to buy some LCR meter  but I can not choose which one to buy. One of these DE-500 from Japan or maybe MS5308? For me with import taxes and duties the final price will be the same. I can buy from my country MS5308 for about 115EUR with 1 year warranty. Just wondering which of these meters is better from yours perspective?
Actually I don't like MS5308 very much because it is a little bulky. So any advice would be useful for me.

from what i have read is that they both have the same chipset so should perform the same,  the iet does look alot better.
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Offline robrenz

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2013, 08:19:28 pm »
IF these DE 500 have the same specs as the IET DE-5000 I would definitely chose it over the MS5308. I have the IET unit and it is very accurate at low ohms and ESR. PA4TIM has done some testing with his and found the capacitance and inductance well in spec also.

Offline xbb

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2013, 08:25:02 pm »
I got one yesterday, bought it from the auction linked in the opening post. After... :palm: I noticed the seller has also the full kit
 

Offline mos6502

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2013, 08:26:46 pm »
The model number is DE-5000. There is no DE-500. DE-500 is a typo.

The eBay sellers have pictures of opened units and they look identical to the one in the EEVblog #229 teardown.
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Offline staxquad

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2013, 08:29:22 pm »
IF these DE 500 have the same specs as the IET DE-5000 I would definitely chose it over the MS5308. I have the IET unit and it is very accurate at low ohms and ESR. PA4TIM has done some testing with his and found the capacitance and inductance well in spec also.

PA4TIM doesn't have a MS5308.  It takes two to compare.  If I remember correctly he said that because it cost more it must be better, no a b comparison necessary.

The DE 5000 is lower priced, has a smaller form factor, and maybe doesn't have the battery and charger issues that MS5308 has (worked around, so not an issue anymore if you are aware), so if someone doesn't need the extras, it seems like a good deal.   MS5308 using 7xAA batteries will run longer than DE 5000 with a 9v battery though.   

« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 08:43:12 pm by staxquad »
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Offline robrenz

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2013, 08:54:52 pm »
The DE-5000 has generally better specs than the MS5308 on paper.  The specs from the manual from DER are the same as the specs shown in the IET manual.  So the only thing you are getting for the extra $200.00 for the IET version is the nice plastic storage case. That is one expensive case :o

Offline casinada

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2013, 06:07:31 am »
Well, the case would be only $125  as the whole set without case goes for $210 :)
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2013, 07:55:08 am »
I bought one "der ee", let's see how it works in a few weeks.
by the way, I prefer put one battery in a meter instead of 7, even it it lasts longer.
if it needs so much energy, then put a lithium battery in it but please not 7 batteries !
 

Offline Shock

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2013, 02:02:56 pm »
These apply 0.5Vrms according to the specs are they suitable for in circuit testing?
http://akizukidenshi.com/download/ds/deree/DE-5000_manu_en2p.pdf
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Offline mos6502

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2013, 02:14:35 pm »
Can't remember where, but I've read that the output voltage is around 0.63 volts at 100kHz. So no in circuit testing with this one.

Not a problem really, because in circuit testing doesn't work well in reality. A lot of the time, there's stuff in parallel: other caps, resistors ... to be really sure, you've got to desolder the cap anyway.
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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2013, 03:06:14 pm »
The exception is ESR. Components in parallel will only reduce the ESR, so an ESR reading of 10 Ohm across a fairly large cap is generally a good indication that that cap is bad. In troubleshooting you generally only care about order of magnitudes change in ESR. LCR meters (not just this model) are generally not the best tool for in-circuit ESR measurement. Dedicated ESR meters like the Bob Parker design tend to do a better job for in-circuit measurements.
 

Offline staxquad

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2013, 06:06:03 pm »
The DE-5000 has generally better specs than the MS5308 on paper.  The specs from the manual from DER are the same as the specs shown in the IET manual.  So the only thing you are getting for the extra $200.00 for the IET version is the nice plastic storage case. That is one expensive case :o

on what paper?

ES51919/ES51920 chipset on paper: http://www.cyrustek.com.tw/spec/ES51920.pdf


or marketing paper?

« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 07:26:50 pm by staxquad »
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Offline PA4TIM

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2013, 06:45:36 pm »
The exception is ESR. Components in parallel will only reduce the ESR, so an ESR reading of 10 Ohm across a fairly large cap is generally a good indication that that cap is bad. In troubleshooting you generally only care about order of magnitudes change in ESR. LCR meters (not just this model) are generally not the best tool for in-circuit ESR measurement. Dedicated ESR meters like the Bob Parker design tend to do a better job for in-circuit measurements.
Yes, you are right but that is not the problem. If there is a low impedance in parallel then you measure a low ESR. So a low reading is not a guaranty that the cap is indeed good. Most dedicated ESR meters do not measure ESR but impedance.

I have done alot of comparing in circuit and out circuit measurements and I think in situ measuring just is a waist of time. I only use it for some quick checks if a cap is hard to desolder.

For good in situ use he output must be < 0,3V because switchers are stuffed with shottky diodes.  Bridges can alsop measure C and DF in situ because amplitude is adjustable. DF is a better parameter as ESR because ESR an sigh is meaningless.

I have a IET DE-5000 and I compared it to standard capacitors and inductors and measurements made with a Boonton 63H (200 pH resolution) and a GR-1620 ( aF resolution) , scope measurements and VNA measurements (RF-IV mode). I never compared it to the mastech and I do not think it is better because it is more expensive. But you pay for the name IET and therefor you know it will be good. They do not want to mess up their reputation.
The chipset alone is just a part of the meter. That does not guarantee it is good. The external components (jacks, resistors, pcb quality, testleads) can be garbage, de pcb design bad, the psu not good (or kill your meter) , the soldering done by amateurs etc,  You can be sure this will be good if you buy the IET.

And what you buy is up to you. A Ferrari engine in a Kia does not make it the same car as a testa rosa
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Offline robrenz

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2013, 02:22:16 am »
on what paper?

or marketing paper?

 The specs from the respective user manuals.

Offline staxquad

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2013, 04:46:05 am »
on what paper?

or marketing paper?

 The specs from the respective user manuals.

Dave always harps on the electrical characteristics of the chipset being ultimate and everything else to be taken with a grain of salt.



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Offline mos6502

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2013, 02:24:04 pm »
Sure, if they have the same chipset, the performance will be similar. Theoretically.

But, it's entirely possible for an incompetent designer to mess up everything. I haven't seen the MS-5308's PCB, but the DE-5000 has a good layout with proper separate grounds, etc.

Considering the MS-5308's debacle with the power supply, I wouldn't put much trust in it. Add to that the ugly, clunky, ridiculously large enclosure of the MS-5308 and the lower price of the DE-5000 and the choice is pretty clear.
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Offline staxquad

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2013, 04:37:40 pm »
Sure, if they have the same chipset, the performance will be similar. Theoretically.

But, it's entirely possible for an incompetent designer to mess up everything. I haven't seen the MS-5308's PCB, but the DE-5000 has a good layout with proper separate grounds, etc.

Considering the MS-5308's debacle with the power supply, I wouldn't put much trust in it. Add to that the ugly, clunky, ridiculously large enclosure of the MS-5308 and the lower price of the DE-5000 and the choice is pretty clear.

The power supply was contracted out and they didn't QC it correctly.   How much intelligence does it take to trash the AC and get a new one for less than $10, or just use batteries?

Have the professionalism to actually test something before pronouncing it worse than something else.  All I see here are opinions.

And at $170 for data logging, tweezers, kelvin clips, soft case, and the same performance (same chipset) as the IET for a third of the price, it was a bargain.  It's still cheaper than the full DER DE-5000 kit.


seems like my test came out tighter than PA4TIM's, but just ignore that, you're all emotional
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/iet-de-5000-lcr-meter-in-uk/msg197357/#msg197357



« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 11:15:41 pm by staxquad »
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Offline mos6502

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2013, 05:01:28 pm »
The power supply was contracted out and they didn't QC it correctly.   How much intelligence does it take to trash the AC and get a new one for less than $10, or just use batteries?

Huh. Dunno. How much intelligence does it take to ship your product with a defective power supply, that will FRY your device. Because that's what happened in a lot of cases.

So either Mastech are dumbasses, or they don't give a shit, or both. In any case, it doesn't make me want to buy their stuff.

Have the professionalism to actually test something before pronouncing it worse than something else.  All I see here are opinions.

I have the professionalism to not buy a product that's being made by unprofessional people.

Oh, and you're surprised to find OPINIONS in an internet forum? Unbelievable! Shocking! I bet some of them were even unsubstantiated! :-DD

And at $170 for data logging, tweezers, kelvin clips, soft case, and the same performance (same chipset) as the IET for a third of the price, it's was a bargain.  It's still cheaper than the full DER DE-5000 kit.

What parallel universe are your prices from? I bought a DE-5000, including the croc clip module and SMD tweezers, for 90 Eurobucks from Japan. Including EMS shipping.

The cheapest MS5308 on eBay is 147 Euros from the US.

seems like my test came out tighter than PA4TIM's, but just ignore that, you're all emotional
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/iet-de-5000-lcr-meter-in-uk/msg197357/#msg197357

Yeah, so the best case is, the DE-5000 and the MS5308 are equivalent. In that case, I still prefer the DE-5000 because it's cheaper and it actually looks like a proper meter and not like a clunky abortion from the Mattel factory.
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2013, 05:13:50 pm »

What parallel universe are your prices from? I bought a DE-5000, including the croc clip module and SMD tweezers, for 90 Eurobucks from Japan. Including EMS shipping.

The cheapest MS5308 on eBay is 147 Euros from the US.


Without getting into the debate of which LCR meter is better, I just wanted to clarify on your pricing question. I used to sell on this forum the Mastech MS5308 for $170, worldwide shipped. It was the full package including the USB cable, software, and the carrying case. In a previous post by another member the full set of the DE-5000 from Japan is selling for about $210, but that doesn't include the hard plastic carrying case. I sell the full DE-5000 set including the hard case for $349 on this forum, which I know is comparatively very expensive now but it was a bargain comparing to the IET branded version before the Japanese sellers came into the scene...

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Offline SeanB

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2013, 05:34:43 pm »
I bought from Frankie, and knew about the PSU problem so did a quick destruction of the supplied PSU when it arrived and tossed it and replaced it with a linear one, just reusing the cable it came with. Must admit it rarely is used on the mains, it is very portable. The lead sets are very nice to use as well.
 

Offline staxquad

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2013, 06:28:06 am »
The power supply was contracted out and they didn't QC it correctly.   How much intelligence does it take to trash the AC and get a new one for less than $10, or just use batteries?

Huh. Dunno. How much intelligence does it take to ship your product with a defective power supply, that will FRY your device. Because that's what happened in a lot of cases.

So either Mastech are dumbasses, or they don't give a shit, or both. In any case, it doesn't make me want to buy their stuff.

Have the professionalism to actually test something before pronouncing it worse than something else.  All I see here are opinions.

I have the professionalism to not buy a product that's being made by unprofessional people.

Oh, and you're surprised to find OPINIONS in an internet forum? Unbelievable! Shocking! I bet some of them were even unsubstantiated! :-DD

And at $170 for data logging, tweezers, kelvin clips, soft case, and the same performance (same chipset) as the IET for a third of the price, it's was a bargain.  It's still cheaper than the full DER DE-5000 kit.

What parallel universe are your prices from? I bought a DE-5000, including the croc clip module and SMD tweezers, for 90 Eurobucks from Japan. Including EMS shipping.

The cheapest MS5308 on eBay is 147 Euros from the US.

seems like my test came out tighter than PA4TIM's, but just ignore that, you're all emotional
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/iet-de-5000-lcr-meter-in-uk/msg197357/#msg197357

Yeah, so the best case is, the DE-5000 and the MS5308 are equivalent. In that case, I still prefer the DE-5000 because it's cheaper and it actually looks like a proper meter and not like a clunky abortion from the Mattel factory.

omitting shipping  :palm: disingenuous

opinions, everybody's got them 
   
how's this for performance, spot on for 3 different resistances:

it's the chipset stupid

using resistance standards 1k ohms, 10 ohms from the Leeds and Northrup and .005 ohms (2 x .0025 ohms in series) Shalltronix Test Standards
my Fluke 87 III measures .9999 kohms and 10.03 ohms for the first two.
my GE double bridge measures .0025 ohms exactly for both .0025 ohm standard resistors

awaiting for more unsubstantiated opinion  :palm:








.050 value x .05 scale = .0025 ohms


and the other
.050 value x .05 scale = .0025 ohms
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 06:47:39 am by staxquad »
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Offline robrenz

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2013, 11:56:23 am »
Nice tests, glad to see it performs like the DE-5000 on resistance. :-+

Offline saturation

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Re: DE-500 LCR Meter OEM?
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2013, 03:06:06 pm »
Great job staxquad.  BTW if anyone is looking for a case to match the IET version check these:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=85020&catid=802

They are called 'merchant cases' and per piece are about $7, add another $7 for DIY cutout foam.

Its not molded to fit parts but add cut out foam and you're set.

With S&H about $20.

Also sold as Flambeau.

http://www.flambeau-cases.com/merchant-6782.htm


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