Chinese Multimeter

[bobcat2000]

With a combo of aging, temperature extremes and -guaranteed to happen- drops on concrete or tiles, causing nano cracks on the brittle lead free bs soldering...

I hope not for this meter.  I paid 50 clams for it.  I want my 50 clams last forever.

[bobcat2000]

I don't know how many owners had it before me, nor how it survived years of collegetard abuse before them,
but it's in perfect spec decades later on all the ranges, including the 3kv AC and DC hookup 

It might soaked up too much radiation during WW2 from the blasts.  It has mutated with super power, and it is part of the Justice League.  Used by Captain Atom to troubleshoot the Watchtower.

[Electro Detective]

..It has mutated with super power, and it is part of the Justice League..

Captain VOMit! 

LOL, you may be right, with no batteries required it glows sometimes 

Maybe there's a power stone hidden in there that Thanos wasn't worded up about 

[ebastler]

Lifetime means "useful life".  Just like the transmission oil in your car.  Many cars are now said to have "Lifetime" transmission oil.  So, if the oil is good for 100 miles, "Lifetime" means 100 miles. 
[...]
Lifetime Limited Warranty
Greenlee Textron Inc. warrants to the original purchaser of these goods for use that these products will be free from
defects in workmanship and material for their useful life, excepting normal wear and abuse.

That seems absurd. As soon as the product fails, it is no longer useful, has hence reached the end of its "useful life", and is hence out of warranty? Thank you very much... 

[bobcat2000]

This is the language from Fluke.  It is better written.  If the dial failed and the broken metal inside causes damage, they won't cover it.  If it is before 1997, good luck.  I am guessing, meters made after 1997 are probably made in China.  They made them so cheap.  That may be why Fluke can afford to give you a new one if you bug them.

Industrial products limited Lifetime Warranty

Lifetime is defined as seven years after Fluke discontinues manufacturing the product, but the warranty period shall be at least ten years from date of purchase. *(Lifetime Warranty applies to products manufactured after October 1996). The warranty does not cover manuals, fuses, disposable batteries, damage from neglect, misuse, contamination, alteration, accident or abnormal conditions of operation or handling, including failures caused by use outside of the product's specifications, or normal wear and tear of mechanical components. This warranty covers the original purchaser only and is not transferable. This warranty covers the LCD for 10 years only (state-of-the-art for LCDs). To establish original ownership proof of purchase is required (20, 70, 80, 170, 180 and 280 models). THE FOLLOWING PRODUCTS ARE INTENDED FOR SALE AND USE IN THE CHINESE AND HIGH GROWTH MARKETS ONLY AND AVAILABLE FOR WARRANTY PROTECTION ONLY IF SOLD, PURCHASED AND USED SOLELY FROM AN AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTOR WITHIN THESE TERRITORIES: 101, 106, 107, 15B+, 17B+ and 18B+. THE WARRANTY FOR THESE PRODUCTS IS VOID IF THE PRODUCT IS SOLD, PURCHASED OR USED OUTSIDE OF THESE TERRITORIES, OR FROM UNAUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS AND NO WARRANTY COVERAGE, SERVICE, REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT WILL BE PROVIDED.

[tkamiya]

I have over a dozen multi-meters.  Some are nice HP kind, some are Fluke, some are old Japanese analog, and some are recent purchase from China via Amazon.

To me, there is a difference between measuring and checking.  For measuring, I want my reading to be accurate and repeatable.  For that purpose, about half of mine will qualify.  For checking, I'm trying to see if there is a voltage around what it is supposed to be.  Let that be current, resistance, whatever.  If it's 12V today and 12.5V tomorrow, I'm not concerned.  For that purpose, any of them will do.  I usually pick cheaper ones because I don't have to care.

I have good luck with Amazon purchases.  If something breaks within a year and if it was sold by Amazon, not a third party, they are usually good about covering it, despite its formal policy.  I just ask nicely and they respond in like kind. 

I just wouldn't expect that much from meters that cost less than 50 dollars.  I'd probably just throw it away if I can't fix it quickly myself.  Those "life time warranty" is worthless if you have to ship it at your cost.  It's worthless if there are fees.  It's particularly worthless if company has changed name or no longer there.

Those are my practices.  Yes, that's how I ended up drawer full of meters. 

[bobcat2000]

...Those "life time warranty" is worthless if you have to ship it at your cost.

Well said.  I used to be able to bring the thing back to the store and the store would take care the warranty.  There were like 4 electronic stores near my house.  They all went under and closed for good.  Those days are long gone.

Greenlee seems to be a good company.  Looks like they are also going under and being sold.  I originally also wanted to get an Amprobe AM-510 or 520.  They are also around $50 dollars with more features than the Greenlee but only offer a 1-yr warranty.  So, let take a chance with the Greenlee that offers a lifetime warranty.  It sounds better than a 1-yr.

[tkamiya]

A flip side of this is Chinese extreme efficiency makes these multi-meters very inexpensive.  In 1970s, even a simple analog meters used to cost $200.  That was a lot of money back then.  Now, full featured one can be had for $50.  But I don't expect it will safely do 1000V or be accurate. (that's why we pay $200 for Fluke!)

I no longer think multi-meters are "which one" and have just one or two decision. 

As long as you are not using them in extreme conditions, the worst it can happen is you break one and you are out a meter.  I'd just get another, if taking a quick lock doesn't resolve it.  With Amazon, you'll have it the next day.  With life time warranty, of course.

[Fungus]

Now, full featured one can be had for $50.  But I don't expect it will safely do 1000V or be accurate. (that's why we pay $200 for Fluke!)

Or even $25.

Accuracy isn't a problem with these meters. They're usually bang-on.



Can they measure 1000V safely? Maybe if you put them in volts mode and follow safety procedures like wearing gloves, hearing protection, etc. Something you should also be doing even if you own a Fluke.

All the MOVs and huge fuses and stuff in Fluke meters are there for when you mess up and try to measure 1000V in Ohms or Amps mode. They don't do anything much in volts mode.

[tkamiya]

I had a near death experience with 1000 volts.  My colleague had the same with 2500 volts.

My procedure has been to turn off, unplug, discharge THEN connect the probe.  Step back and, make sure I know where my hands are, turn it back on to read.  I do this with any meter and any test instruments when more than 240V is involved.  I am a professionally trained and licensed electrician.  I don't take high voltage lightly.

My experience is mixed with inexpensive meters.  Some are good.  Some aren't.  But nearly all of them are quite passable.

[joeqsmith]

I know several people who bought the UNI-T UT210E clamp all about the same time.  So far, two of them have had switch failures.   My BK also suffered from a switch failure. 

One problem is if the switch starts to fail and causes errors in the readings and the user is not aware of it.  Worse is if you make decisions based on bad data.   

From the little bit of switch life testing I have done, there appears to be a pretty significant difference in the reliability of the various brands.   Shown below is a low cost ANENG meter and fairly expensive, feature poor, Fluke 17B+ after 50,000 full rotations.   

[Bud]

Now, full featured one can be had for $50.  But I don't expect it will safely do 1000V or be accurate. (that's why we pay $200 for Fluke!)

Or even $25.

Accuracy isn't a problem with these meters. They're usually bang-on.



Can they measure 1000V safely? Maybe if you put them in volts mode and follow safety procedures like wearing gloves, hearing protection, etc. Something you should also be doing even if you own a Fluke.

All the MOVs and huge fuses and stuff in Fluke meters are there for when you mess up and try to measure 1000V in Ohms or Amps mode. They don't do anything much in volts mode.

The problem with these meters is poor sockets quality resutilng in intermittent contacts with probes. This is Much worse than inadequate safety rating.

[tkamiya]

You are right.  Connectors can be iffy.  I know some of mine are bit on loose side.  I also have one that socket isn't deep enough and mating part doesn't have the outside sleeve. 

What I really despise about those meter is that manufacturers and sellers will tell you they are safe for 1000V.  That's false advertising.  That's dangerous.  That's irresponsible.  WE know better but those things are sold cheaply for public consumption who may or may not be aware.  Things can go wrong in a "flash."  Looking at PC board design and type of fuse that's inside, there is no way that can adequately protect users.

Oh well.  They are cheap.  Buyers be aware....
FLUKE!  I love my Fluke clamp meter.

[NoisyBoy]

Agreed, for handheld meters, I can always trust my Fluke.  I don’t want to go through the question “is my DMM good enough for the use case” or “Is the calibration still holding”.  The Fluke is a no brainer, I use a 375 FC for current, and 179 for other handheld tasks.

For the cheap Harbor Freights and Extechs, I never use them on main voltage. 

[rsjsouza]

From the little bit of switch life testing I have done, there appears to be a pretty significant difference in the reliability of the various brands.   Shown below is a low cost ANENG meter and fairly expensive, feature poor, Fluke 17B+ after 50,000 full rotations.   

Having purchased a few cheapies in the last months, I can tell that a few of them don't need the 50000 rotation count to start showing problems. The worst offender is the Richmeters RM102Pro I have (Aneng AN113D, Zoyi ZT102A), which easily allows setting the switch half way between ranges - also, tapping the knob enough times shows a rare noise on the measurement. This meter is mechanically very similar to the popular AN8008 and AN8009.

[joeqsmith]

I would imagine for the UNI-T clamps, we are in the couple thousand cycles.  Then again, that Keysight meter's detent spring failed at a few thousand cycles as well so I can't say it's a case where you get what you pay for.    I expected a brand like Keysight to hold up as well as the Brymens in all of my tests.

[rsjsouza]

Then again, that Keysight meter's detent spring failed at a few thousand cycles as well so I can't say it's a case where you get what you pay for.    I expected a brand like Keysight to hold up as well as the Brymens in all of my tests.

I still wonder if the mechanical failure on the Keysight was a defective unit. After all, it was breakage and not wear.

Given their lack of response, we can only wonder (unless you get one of their flagship U1282A on this month's giveaway AND is willing to put it to the test).

[joeqsmith]

One thing that should be clear by now is that I am willing to run pretty much any test that I feel may provide some insight into how these meters compare, which includes destructive tests.  I will pretty much run every handheld meter I have access to, outside of the Fluke 189 my friend gave me.   

You are correct that the detent spring did not last long enough to detect any visible wear, and also that Keysight has never contacted me about it.   Also, Keysight has never responded to any emails I sent them.     

If Keysight wanted me to repeat that test on a different meter, I would have no problems donating the time.  They would need to provide two of them.  One for transient testing, the other for the life cycle.  Of course I would make the results public again.   The channel is pretty small so there may not be any perceived value in it. 

[Muttley Snickers]

You are correct that the detent spring did not last long enough to detect any visible wear, and also that Keysight has never contacted me about it.   Also, Keysight has never responded to any emails I sent them.     

Did you ever contact them about a warranty claim or replacement ?, perhaps they might take more notice if you went through their regular product support channels.

[joeqsmith]

Did you ever contact them about a warranty claim or replacement ?, perhaps they might take more notice if you went through their regular product support channels.

My attempts to contact Keysight were prior to procuring the meter.  Their lack of any response is why I never bought another to look at.  I knew there would be no support.     

I wouldn't expect any warranty to cover damages as a result of my testing. 

There have only been a few times I have contacted companies for possible replacement parts.  Once was when I was testing the Brymen BM869s.  In that case, Brymen wanted to see the test and offered to repair or replace it if the meter was damaged.  Of all the brands I have looked at, Brymen seems the most willing to stand behind their products.   When I damaged the TPI/Summit 194,  I wrote TPI to see if I could acquire a replacement controller IC.  They offered to replace the meter but I declined.   The only other time was when I damaged the prototype 121GW, I wrote Dave to see if he could obtain parts to repair it.  To be clear, I wasn't asking for handouts in these cases and would have been willing to pay the companies for the parts and shipping.   

With the low end meters, they are seldom cost effective to repair so they are recycled.   Later on, I was running higher quality meters which would have enough protection to save their custom parts making them repairable.   In the case of the Keysight meter, it was recycled just like so many other low end meters I have looked at.   

[joeqsmith]

I know several people who bought the UNI-T UT210E clamp all about the same time.  So far, two of them have had switch failures.   My BK also suffered from a switch failure. 

One problem is if the switch starts to fail and causes errors in the readings and the user is not aware of it.  Worse is if you make decisions based on bad data.   

From the little bit of switch life testing I have done, there appears to be a pretty significant difference in the reliability of the various brands.   Shown below is a low cost ANENG meter and fairly expensive, feature poor, Fluke 17B+ after 50,000 full rotations.   

Too funny!! So yesterday a third UT210E started having intermittent switch problems.   Again, it seems like moderate use.   It's really a shame that UNI-T didn't invest in better materials.   I would gladly have paid more to get a higher quality product.   

[CDaniel]

  And then how do you think a chinese company could compete with a "normal" company ? This is their mindset , to produse knock-offs , I don't want to go into politics but everything has a root cause .
Many times you are happy to pay much less ... if the quality is not an issue and the product is not critical , but for something important I would never trust them .

[joeqsmith]

And then how do you think a chinese company could compete with a "normal" company ? This is their mindset , to produse knock-offs , I don't want to go into politics but everything has a root cause .
Many times you are happy to pay much less ... if the quality is not an issue and the product is not critical , but for something important I would never trust them .

Not sure why you would mention politics.  The vast majority of handheld DMMs are now produced in China.  Some of the most robust meters I have looked at were from China.   I have considered them the "normal" for many years, not just for DMMs.   

In the case of the UT210E, I am not aware of another clamp like it (DC 1mA res with display).  All I am saying is if this were a higher quality product, I would gladly pay for it.

[Fungus]

This is their mindset

That's a bit much for a country that was building massive things while most westerners were still banging rocks together.

for something important I would never trust them .

For something "important" I'd only trust a tool that I personally use on a daily basis.

ie. I'd trust my daily driver Chinese meter over a random Fluke 87V with unknown history.

[rsjsouza]

All I am saying is if this were a higher quality product, I would gladly pay for it.

Well, there is: https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/electrical-testing/clamp-meters/fluke-369-fc

Would you pay $800 for a ( better quality + Fluke markup ) product?