NanoVNA Custom Software

[joeqsmith]

A draft manual for 2.0 is now available.  Of course the TOC was updated along with the what's new.  The main changes are at the end where it describes the difference in the new version and the new PDN measurement feature.

Hi Mr. Smith,

I would like to try out your new PDN measurement feature and may have the chance to borrow some DC-blockers and maybe a professional common mode transformer for short time.
Did you upload the two announced versions 2.0 for both VNAs already?
The last version that is visible for me is p1.08 and for the V2Plus4 it's p1.04 in your GitHUB repository.

However, as for my privat use I would like to build up the blockers and the CMT like yours, would it be possible to post the partlist and the 'how to' for this in more detail some time?

Thank you very much for all this investigations and education up to now!

Hello.   I haven't released the new versions to the public domain yet.  I am not sure when you will see them.   The document is being reviewed.   I am still finding minor problems in the software.  For the first time today, I tried it on the the V2Plus4.  Once things seem fairly stable, I plan to put together a video demonstrating the new features, most likely using the old hardware.    It all takes time.

Someone wrote me how my software would calibrate their V2Plus4 but would throw checksum errors when running sweeps.  I've never ran into this and it really makes no sense.  So I would like to see if they can supply enough information to replicate what they are seeing.  That would be a major bug and makes the software worthless if that is really what is going on.  I would like to sort that out before releasing it as well. 
 
The DC blocks shouldn't pose much of a problem but the transformer took some effort to sort out.   I am holding out for JohnG's transformer as it sounds like they have a lot of expertise in this area.   They don't seem to agree with how Brian collected the data or some of the measurements that have been made.  So give them a little time and let's see what they come up with. 

If you have a access to a VNA, it would be interesting to measure the performance of the transformer you plan to borrow. 

[joeqsmith]

Running the new software on the V2 Plus 4.   It's really too bad this thing can't out perform that original hardware.  Every time I use it, I am reminded just how slow the old hardware/firmware is. 

While I have not seen any sort of checksum error I wonder if there is a problem with the newer firmware.  I have never has a reason to change mine and it was shipped with git-20201010-86c7055.   If you check their store, they don't list it.

What's really odd is when they claim they can cal it but not sweep.  Both require data to be read.  It's the same section of code.  And if there is a checksum, I flag the error and throw out the data.   So I don't see how it would calibrate.   I use the same commands to control the V2Plus no matter if I am running a calibration or sweeping.  It's a really odd problem assuming it actually exists. 

[Knuddel]

There are no checksum errors from my unit.
I have one I believe from the first lot of 2021 delivered in April.

The firmware version is git-20201013-32077fd

I am using the Microsoft port driver 10.0.18362.1 that was installed automatically by Windows 10.

I added the through measurement of a Nooelec Inc. 50kHz - 8GHz SMA DC block after normalization with a simple through with 201 point segmented sweep both.

It is important to rewrite the sweep points setting to 201 after each segmented sweep.
Otherwise if this is above 1024 the software hangs sometimes...

[joeqsmith]

With the V2Plus4 supporting over 1000 points, I'm not even sure I tested the segmented option with the old software and would not be too surprised if there were problems with it.   With 2.0, the code for the segmented sweep has been changed a fair amount.  I just ran eight consecutive sweeps with 1024 points and saw no problems.   

Starting 40KHz lower than the unit supports may be part of the problem.  Then again, your firmware/hardware combo may provide acceptable results down to 10KHz.   It would be very easy to coerce values to the limits of what the Nano supports but I see no need for it.  The software wasn't written for the beginner and I assume the users knows what they are doing.  Taking this approach makes the software more generic and if in the future the limits are changed, there is no need to release new software to support them. 

It's also very possible the older software did not restore the original values and you would have to reset everything between runs (which would include the number of data points).   The firmware may not like the software setting values out of range.   Now that I have a need for segmented sweeps, this feature was rewritten to make it easier to use. 

Good to know that you are not seeing the checksum errors with the newer firmware.   That person has yet to respond with any additional information.   

[joeqsmith]

I think we have our checksum problem sorted out.  They were not using the stable release and also some of DisLords firmware.  The checksum faults appear to be when they are using DisLord's firmware.   I have no plans to try and support the firmware of the week so no problem.   

[joeqsmith]

Been busy with other projects but Flipper and I spent some time going over the entire document.   They had some good input that makes it a little easier to read.   It's now available on-line.

They were asking about the firmware for the original hardware.   I rolled back after running into problems with the latest releases. 
https://github.com/qrp73/NanoVNA-Q 

I haven't had a lot of time for testing the software.  It appears stable enough.  Hopefully I will have some time over the next week to put together a short demo and get it uploaded.  If there's something you would like to see, now's the time to ask. 

[joeqsmith]

...
I would like to try out your new PDN measurement feature and may have the chance to borrow some DC-blockers and maybe a professional common mode transformer for short time.
...

Making some progress and have started working on the video to demo the new software.   Are you planning to try to use your V2Plus4 or one of the other VNAs?   The software for it still needs some work and may not be released at the same time. 

I have added the image of the firmware I am using in the original NanoVNA to Github along with a link to their repository.   

Hope to have the video and software for the original uploaded this weekend.   

[Alextsu]

Looking at the LibreVNA, it seems like they are having problems with their software and firmware.  While the moderators of some of the groups (for example https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV2) have chosen to make them private (which I see it as a dick move),  the LibreVNA group seems to want to sensor the posts.  That was enough to turn me off of it.   Hopefully OWOs team will roll something out that can measure lower frequencies,  with a higher resolution (at least at lower frequencies) and an increased upper frequency range beyond the capabilities of the V2Plus4.   Even if they kept it closed source, as long at the interface is documented,  I would get one based on my experience with the V2Plus4.   Even if they just improved the V2Plus4 to allow it to fully replace the original NanoVNA, I would get one.   

[/quote]

Hi Joe,
Just a short comment to make the things clear. What's concerning the LibreVNA group at groups.io.
I have asked Jan and he told me that this is unofficial group. It had been created by unknown person before the official LibreVNA group started, so nothing could be done about it.
In any case, You can reach Jan directly.

[joeqsmith]

Looking at the LibreVNA, it seems like they are having problems with their software and firmware.  While the moderators of some of the groups (for example https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV2) have chosen to make them private (which I see it as a dick move),  the LibreVNA group seems to want to sensor the posts.  That was enough to turn me off of it.   Hopefully OWOs team will roll something out that can measure lower frequencies,  with a higher resolution (at least at lower frequencies) and an increased upper frequency range beyond the capabilities of the V2Plus4.   Even if they kept it closed source, as long at the interface is documented,  I would get one based on my experience with the V2Plus4.   Even if they just improved the V2Plus4 to allow it to fully replace the original NanoVNA, I would get one.   

Hi Joe,
Regarding the LibreVNA group at groups.io.
I have asked Jan about Your case and he told me that this group had been created before the official LibreVNA group started and is moderated by unknown person, so this is unofficial group and even the creator of VNA (Jan) could do nothing with it.

Sorry to hear that,
Alex

Hello Alex. 
Outside of yourself and a few others asking me about it, I wouldn't have attempted to join the LibreVNA group and post.  I no longer follow it's progress.   

For those of you interested in getting a glimpse of the latest software for the NanoVNA, here you go.   I hope to have the software uploaded soon.  I plan to leave the latest 1.x releases.   


 

[joeqsmith]

The software that I used to create the video is now available at:   
https://github.com/joeqsmith

I have not yet uploaded the software for the V2Plus4.  It will need some runtime first but it should be available in the next day or so.   

[joeqsmith]

Hi Joe,
Just a short comment to make the things clear. What's concerning the LibreVNA group at groups.io.
I have asked Jan and he told me that this is unofficial group. It had been created by unknown person before the official LibreVNA group started, so nothing could be done about it.
In any case, You can reach Jan directly.

If you go to the designer's github account :
https://github.com/jankae/LibreVNA

Under Quick Start,  "For general questions or discussions, the LibreVNA group is probably the best place."
The link points to https://groups.io/g/LibreVNA
This is the only group I am aware of.  If there is now an official group as you suggest that is no longer censoring the posts, please provide the link to it.   You may want to suggest that the designer also provide that new link from their git account as well.


OWO chimed in on their new design as well and provided the following link:   
https://nanorfe.com/nanovna-v3.html

Preliminary specifications:
    100kHz - 6GHz frequency range without using harmonics    (I would like to see 10kHz or lower and at least provide the resolution of the original NanoVNA.)
    120dB dynamic range to 3GHz, 100dB dynamic range to 6GHz   (120dB ??!!  If it could do that at 10kHz, it opens up a whole new market)
        Higher dynamic range at 6GHz compared to 50dB dynamic range of existing open source VNAs 
    0.01dB trace noise
    0.1dB typical measurement uncertainty (neglecting cal kit errors)
        Superior linearity error compared to existing 6GHz open source VNAs
    10k points/s maximum sweep speed     (Now we're talking. )
    Full two port - measures S11, S21, S12, S22   
    Adjustable IFBW from 10Hz to 100kHz - can measure narrowband devices
    Supports Unknown Thru and other advanced calibration methods
    Supports NanoVNA-QT and NanoVNA-Saver software  (Don't care)
    TDR with millimeter level resolution   (Ditch that LCD and let the PC do its thing)
    Estimated price $400   (If it ran down to 10kHz with decent resolution,  I know a few people that are going to be very interested in it.)
    Discussion group: https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV3

[Alextsu]

Thanks for pointing it out, great specs.
It sounds like the new design from OWO would outperform all others.

[Knuddel]

Hi Joe,

unfortunately there is no CMT availabe in the company laboratories for this PDN ground loop breaking measurement stuff.
So there is nothing to borrow and I need to build it by my own, too.
I have both like you the original NanoVNA-H and the V2plus4 and I strictly only want to use your firmware/software version combination. (Nevertheless, higher data rate would be a desiarable goal, of course...)
For this output resistance measurement / PDN I found a hint to break the loop with some active stuff is possible, too.
This may be possible below your final CMT budget of 200$
Most of your cost for your CMT-design are for the SMA-connectors that is not only for low ohmic resistance, is it?

I also checked the NanoVNA-H schematics if breaking the ground connection of X2 is another way.
Seems that the mixer SA612AD inputs are decoupled anyhow and the X2 ground  may be set to 'semi-floating' with some aditional passive components... (That's touching my knowledge limit but stimulates my curiosity:)

Anyway, thanks for uploading the software!!! I need to try it as soon as possible.

[TheDane]

Hello Joe,

Thank you for updating your software and making an interesting video.
I have downloaded the new software and renamed + replaced it with the original .exe which was included in the installer.
The original works fine, it finds my S-A-A V2 / V2.2 fine - here is what it reports: NanoVNA V2+, Protocol 1, FW 1.2
The new, and even the older versions, will not make the VNA go into 'USB MODE' and in your software the link button goes orange, but the green light never lights up.

I looked into your documentation, and it says it supports the original and V2 Plus, but there is no info on revision 0.1
- is the V2.2 supported in the new 2.0 software?
- if not, can you make it compatible with the V2.2?

Thanks, it is an awesome tool!
Egon

[joeqsmith]

Thanks to pointing it out, John.
Yes I had seen the Owo's v.3 newest VNA design specs.
It sounds like the new design from OWO would outperform all present ones.
This really makes no sense to waste time trying to adopt the software for other VNA's.
I should agree with You

As long as the firmware and hardware are stable and the interface is well documented, it's been fairly easy to port the software to different VNAs.  As long as there is open communication, we can work around it.  With the LibreVNA, they chose to censor the posts.  That's really the deal-breaker. 

So far, I have not seen that with OWOs group.

[joeqsmith]

Hi Joe,

unfortunately there is no CMT availabe in the company laboratories for this PDN ground loop breaking measurement stuff.
So there is nothing to borrow and I need to build it by my own, too.
I have both like you the original NanoVNA-H and the V2plus4 and I strictly only want to use your firmware/software version combination. (Nevertheless, higher data rate would be a desiarable goal, of course...)
For this output resistance measurement / PDN I found a hint to break the loop with some active stuff is possible, too.
This may be possible below your final CMT budget of 200$
Most of your cost for your CMT-design are for the SMA-connectors that is not only for low ohmic resistance, is it?

I also checked the NanoVNA-H schematics if breaking the ground connection of X2 is another way.
Seems that the mixer SA612AD inputs are decoupled anyhow and the X2 ground  may be set to 'semi-floating' with some aditional passive components... (That's touching my knowledge limit but stimulates my curiosity:)

Anyway, thanks for uploading the software!!! I need to try it as soon as possible.

For the H4, I suggest you read the following few posts before spending too much time with it.   
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/msg3586023/#msg3586023

The last transformer was the highest cost.  Around $200 or so.  $100 just for the two connectors.   The SMAs I used are less expensive.   The tape wound cores are also very expensive.   You don't need a box with bulkhead connectors.  You may be able to find some good cores in some old power supplies at the scrap yard.  Maybe consider trying some really inexpensive connectors from China.    Another option is to buy something ready made.

Yes, that op-amp solution was talked about in one of the videos I linked.  The down side is you may want something with with better performance at higher frequencies.  It's all a trade off.   This includes the transformer.   

I see it all as a learning experience and encourage anyone wanting to try it out to just start experimenting.  You don't need to spend a lot of money to learn some basics.   If you need something better, you will be in a better position to make good choices.   Keep in mind,  this whole NanoVNA thing  for me started out with my friend Flipper wanting to spend some coin one a real VNA.   They had no idea how to use one beyond spending a small amount of time with me.   At least now, I think they are smart enough to know what features they need when they finally do buy one.     

[joeqsmith]

Hello Joe,

Thank you for updating your software and making an interesting video.
I have downloaded the new software and renamed + replaced it with the original .exe which was included in the installer.
The original works fine, it finds my S-A-A V2 / V2.2 fine - here is what it reports: NanoVNA V2+, Protocol 1, FW 1.2
The new, and even the older versions, will not make the VNA go into 'USB MODE' and in your software the link button goes orange, but the green light never lights up.

I looked into your documentation, and it says it supports the original and V2 Plus, but there is no info on revision 0.1
- is the V2.2 supported in the new 2.0 software?
- if not, can you make it compatible with the V2.2?

Thanks, it is an awesome tool!
Egon

Egon,

The only hardware I currently support is the original NanoVNA and V2Plus.  The rest are untested.  The firmware is a total shit show.   

As I explained in the video, 0.1 is used to install the LabView runtime, NIVISA and INI files.  As you have found, 0.1 supports the V2Plus but I am not sure why anyone would use it rather than the latest release.       

The video, documentation, along with my posts should have made it clear that you need to use the software for your specific VNA.   You have downloaded software for the original NanoVNA  and are expecting it to work with the V2Plus.  I'm not sure why you would think that would ever work but believe me, it will not. 

There certainly is a version of 2.0 that supports the V2Plus.  I mentioned it here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/msg3595962/#msg3595962

The video mentions it not being very useful due to the limitations of the V2Plus design.  Don't expect the software to fix that. 

[joeqsmith]

I had ran into a minor problem while testing the 2.00 release for the V2Plus4 which could cause problems with slower PCs.  I have made a minor change to turn off the peak detector when a sweep is being performed.  This change was also made to the software for the original NanoVNA.   

They are both available on-line.   

[joeqsmith]

I ended up rewriting the peak detector to use a recursive algorithm which greatly improved the performance.  No other changes were made.   Both programs have been updated and are available.   

[joeqsmith]

I've had a few people recently ask where to find the software. 

[Knuddel]

So this is crazy:
I ordered an original NanoVNA and in fact a Hugen NanoVNA-H (not H4 !) was delivered.
There is some improvements to the -H but not affecting the sampling and software/firmware part.
(Believe the only improvements are in fact the Lion battery, the USB-C and the metal shielding inside. I attached both schematics and there is the same Microcontroller that should behave same if programmed with same firmware, should it?)

It is delivered with the NanoVNA-Q firmware version 1.0.45. (with this it supports down to 10kHz) https://github.com/hugen79/NanoVNA-H
I attached it to Joes software 2.0 and 2.02 and there are no errors and the green light is on and it calibrates and it sets the start and stop frequencies correctly even in segmented sweep but it never displays any curve in any of all the main windows graphs nor in the advanced bode graph.

As the hardware is said to be compatible I installed edy555 0.8.0 https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA/releases/tag/0.8.0 transferred with STs DFU file manager from hex to dfu format and flashed with DfuSe but exactly same behavior. (with this version curiously the standalone device as well as with Joes Software only supports down to 50kHz.)

With this one https://github.com/qrp73/NanoVNA-Q it goes again down to 10kHz.

Now I am curious which version you are using with your original "NanoVNA" . Thought you stuck at the edy555 0.8.0, but this starts at 50kHz !?

[purpose]

Tell me you hit the sweep button.

[Knuddel]

Yes, I did a segmented sweep in the picture case.
But there is may be a problem with the autoscaling?
Because after connecting with the Link-Button and first time press the Sweep-Button the Graph scales somehow once.

[purpose]

Above my pay grade.
Your pic above my first reply did not have the upper right sweep button engaged.

[Knuddel]

Don't worry.
I'm glad that there is at least you hanging around in this forum to encourage me to keep trying.